Could Alabama be new Appalachian Trail end? - WAVY-TV

[minnesotasmith]

1) I saw no mention of any privies. Not really needed til hiker #s pick up, of course, and less important by far than finishing the planned shelters. Not a big deal, to be sure.

2) Many of the shelters are small pavilions with no sides. I'd figure on sleeping atop the picnic tables, for one. Second, a thick tarp of size and cords that could be attached vertically to shelter columns to shield against wind and slanting precip might be worth carrying.

3) I got pretty good at navigation on indistinct trail sections during my past AT thru. I had family members come up and hike some short sections with me, and they sometimes could hardly see trail that was plain as day to me. So, with the blazes every 0.1 mile, navs should be no major issue, it sounds.

[SGT Rock]

Cuffs mentioned a hikers guide for the Pinhoti in the works. I imagine it would end up being like I found on the BMT - if you are willing to do a lot of driving and map work ahead of time you might find some cool, convenient, resupply spots that someone just hiking through (like I did) wouldn't know existed.

[minnesotasmith]

Heflin's the resupply point on the Alabama section, just north of I-20. Cave Spring in Georgia's next, followed by Dalton or Calhoun. From Calhoun I don't think there's another good resupply point before connecting with the BMT.

Towns and people along the Pinhoti are definitely less "trail oriented" than on the AT. Don't expect any organized trail magic, if you get my drift.

Other than when you have specific notice that there is some ahead, ever expecting some is nuts, it's so against the odds. It's just an occasional unexpected bonus for hiking the AT.

[Two Speed]

Different experience than the AT, trust me. BTW, there are significant portions of the Pinhoti that do not have blazes every 0.1 mile.

[SGT Rock]

1) I saw no mention of any privies. Not really needed til hiker #s pick up, of course, and less important by far than finishing the planned shelters. Not a big deal, to be sure.

2) Many of the shelters are small pavilions with no sides. I'd figure on sleeping atop the picnic tables, for one. Second, a thick tarp of size and cords that could be attached vertically to shelter columns to shield against wind and slanting precip might be worth carrying.

I don't recall any privies at all. The shelters that I saw were all AT style shelters - 3 walls, a roof, and a floor. Some were more elaborate than others, the Blue Mountain Shelter was a two tier if I recall correctly.

3) I got pretty good at navigation on indistinct trail sections during my past AT thru. I had family members come up and hike some short sections with me, and they sometimes could hardly see trail that was plain as day to me. So, with the blazes every 0.1 mile, navs should be no major issue, it sounds.

Well the BMT trail is where you can see it most of the time (only one section where this is in doubt) but the markers can be miles apart in section. The issue here is you can be on a trail that looks like it could be right, but not know for sure for a few miles. The farthest I ever went in the wrong direction was about 1/2 mile.

[SGT Rock]

Different experience than the AT, trust me. BTW, there are significant portions of the Pinhoti that do not have blazes every 0.1 mile.

What he said.

[minnesotasmith]

Different experience than the AT, trust me. BTW, there are significant portions of the Pinhoti that do not have blazes every 0.1 mile.

I thought I saw a piece on the PT site saying they had just reblazed the whole trail. When did you guys hike the PT?

[Two Speed]

Minnie, before you take it the wrong way, you can definitely handle the Pinhoti, but the navigation required is a step up from what's required on the AT. I'll let Sgt Rock speak to navigation on the BMT; he's probably forgotten more than I know about that trail.

For the Pinhoti the best maps I've seen are Mr Parkay's. Tighten up on your navigation and pay attention to the maps and you should be able to work it out.

[SGT Rock]

Well re-blazing doesn't mean the whole thing gets blazes. I cannot speak for certain about the PT, but on the BMT some wilderness areas forbid us to blaze. So while I can go back and freshen up blazes on parts of my trail where it is allowed, miles of the BMT go without any blazes and occasional signage.

I thru-hiked the PT in 2000, but as I recall there were areas they specifically decided not to blaze - but to allow the hiker to figure how they wanted to do it - stay on the ridge was the advice I got for that stretch.

[Two Speed]

I thought I saw a piece on the PT site saying they had just reblazed the whole trail. When did you guys hike the PT?

Did the Georgia section from Dalton to Cave Spring last December. Blazing was erratic on that section at that time.

Couple of good threads on the Pinhoti on the "Other Long Trails" forum.

[Bulldawg]

Anyway, should see few to no loose dogs outside of roadwalks and town,

Always about the dogs with this guy? Did one chew his brain our through his ears younger in life?

[minnesotasmith]

Always about the dogs with this guy? Did one chew his brain our through his ears younger in life?

After about the 7th time during my 9-month 2006 thruhike that some moronic jerk's loose mutts decided with no provocation that they'd enjoy taking a bite out of me (an opinion mostly changed very quickly by my swinging or poking my stout wooden staff against their head or ribs with as much force as I could manage), with never feeling physically threatened by any other animal during that time (even the 10 bears I saw), I've come to the understandable conclusion that loose dogs are by far the most likely source of animal attack while on Eastern U.S. trails.

Was your thruhike 180 degrees from that?

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

On the issue of moving the southern terminus of the AT - I've changed my former stance and am now staunchly against enlarging the AT in way. It is not because the PT or the BMT or any othe r trails that have been proposed aren't every bit as great as the AT, but because the other would fall under the wing of the ATC and ALDHA -- and I feel the current groups controlling them are doing a much better job of handling, developing and maintaining the trails under their control than the ATC & ALDHA do with the AT.

[minnesotasmith]

On the issue of moving the southern terminus of the AT - I've changed my former stance and am now staunchly against enlarging the AT in way. It is not because the PT or the BMT or any othe r trails that have been proposed aren't every bit as great as the AT, but because the other would fall under the wing of the ATC and ALDHA -- and I feel the current groups controlling them are doing a much better job of handling, developing and maintaining the trails under their control than the ATC & ALDHA do with the AT.

Certainly, they're constructing trail shelters at a much more rapid clip than the AT trail clubs are. Leaving aside the perennial Whites issue, places like the Cumberland Gap are on the slow road to nowhere AFAIK WRT getting appropriate shelter density in place.

[Bulldawg]

1) They actually have about half a dozen shelters in place. I looked up distance from the PT on two of them, and they were both within 5 minutes' walk of the PT.

2) Resupply looks to be no biggee, with max of around 6 days food needed.

3) Much of the PT seems fairly pleasant walking WRT grade and elevation changes, kind of like the easier parts of GA (just a quick impression, could be wrong).

4) Agreed locals will not know there is an LD trail there. Best to limit hitches to as few as possible. That is, make good time, carry enough food for margin of error, resupply as close to the PT as possible. And, expect motels to be main way to get town showers. (Didn't see anything on remotely convenient truck stops.) Anyway, should see few to no loose dogs outside of roadwalks and town, as the trail is so little-known, not to mention the time of year I'd hike it.

5) Should be enough warmer that far south/lower altitude I might not need every bit of full winter gear as I would in GA. (Note that I'd leave early Jan. or so, if I tacked on the PT.)

6) Water mostly not too much of a problem, though sometimes need to carry water overnight (water often not near shelters).

After about the 7th time during my 9-month 2006 thruhike that some moronic jerk's loose mutts decided with no provocation that they'd enjoy taking a bite out of me (an opinion mostly changed very quickly by my swinging or poking my stout wooden staff against their head or ribs with as much force as I could manage), with never feeling physically threatened by any other animal during that time (even the 10 bears I saw), I've come to the understandable conclusion that loose dogs are by far the most likely source of animal attack while on Eastern U.S. trails.

Was your thruhike 180 degrees from that?

I have never thru hiked, but still have quite a few miles of trail as well as walking close to home behind me. I find that 99.99% of the dogs I have encountered to be very friendly. I have been around dogs my entire life and have formed the opinion that dogs are only viscous and attack when they feel threatened. Have you ever thought that perhaps the dogs who supposedly attacked you felt threatened by you somehow. Threat to a dog does not always mean hitting them with or swinging a stick at them. I feel dogs have almost a sixth sense and sometimes perceive your threat. I feel like perhaps these dogs who supposedly attacked you perceived your threat to them and took offensive rather than defensive action.

Now some dogs will attack and guard without provocation. My Weimeraner will not allow any males into my yard unless I am outside with her. It is rare that she is outside without me, but sometimes if my wife or children goes out with her and I am gone, she will protect her and my children. One time I was trying to sell a vehicle and my family was outside while I was at work. Two men stopped to look at the vehicle, she almost chewed their leg off. But any other time, she would have run up to them and rolled over wanting her belly petted. It is instinct. Dogs protect their territory and sense predators and fear. Perhaps an adjustment in your attitude towards dogs and their owners would improve your interaction with the canines and their owners.

Just my opinion though with over 30 years experience with dogs.

[WalkingStick75]

My original thought was.... this is the first time that I ever heard that the AT was ever even planned to start someplace besides Springer. If this was in the in the original draft why shouldn't it start there?
But before I actually made the post I saw FD's post. Good point. Why not leave as is just like the Florida Trail and International AT

[SGT Rock]

Certainly, they're constructing trail shelters at a much more rapid clip than the AT trail clubs are. Leaving aside the perennial Whites issue, places like the Cumberland Gap are on the slow road to nowhere AFAIK WRT getting appropriate shelter density in place.

I'm just speaking to appropriate shelter density and bringing up a point I mentioned earliier.

MS, I agree with Two Speed that this trail system is probably well within your skills. I just recall from your hike you had problems with the "standards" of trail maintenance that you found on the AT. My experience with the PT (though a little dated) is they were intentionally not grooming the trail up to the AT standards - though they seem to be adding shelters.

But once you get to the end of the PT you will have to hit the BMT. They have a whole other management philosophy which is very anti-shelter and one of a more wild trail experience. Their idea of a wild trail makes the AT look like a groomed city park.

I point all that out because of your past statements about how the ATC was letting things go - well if you go this way you will see a lot worse. But just be advised it was meant to be like that. Personally I think you would like the experience and you would have a good time - as long as you forget all that stuff about what a trail should be like. If that sort of thing does really bother you, then the PT/BMT trail to the AT may annoy you so much that in interferes with your ability to have a good time.

Again, I think you can make it just fine. I encourage you to do this.

[minnesotasmith]

I have never thru hiked, but still have quite a few miles of trail as well as walking close to home behind me. I find that 99.99% of the dogs I have encountered to be very friendly. I have been around dogs my entire life and have formed the opinion that dogs are only viscous and attack when they feel threatened. Have you ever thought that perhaps the dogs who supposedly attacked you felt threatened by you somehow. Threat to a dog does not always mean hitting them with or swinging a stick at them. I feel dogs have almost a sixth sense and sometimes perceive your threat. I feel like perhaps these dogs who supposedly attacked you perceived your threat to them and took offensive rather than defensive action.

Now some dogs will attack and guard without provocation. My Weimeraner will not allow any males into my yard unless I am outside with her. It is rare that she is outside without me, but sometimes if my wife or children goes out with her and I am gone, she will protect her and my children. One time I was trying to sell a vehicle and my family was outside while I was at work. Two men stopped to look at the vehicle, she almost chewed their leg off. But any other time, she would have run up to them and rolled over wanting her belly petted. It is instinct. Dogs protect their territory and sense predators and fear. Perhaps an adjustment in your attitude towards dogs and their owners would improve your interaction with the canines and their owners.

Just my opinion though with over 30 years experience with dogs.

Dogs are actually very random as to who they bite, especially unprovoked. I've known more than one child who was severely bitten by a strange dog that they only wished to befriend the animal, at least until such time as it started tearing chunks of flesh off them. Anyway, when a dog charges me from behind, and I didn't even know the d*mned thing was there until its charge was already underway, my "attitude" towards it can hardly be the determinative

I have a right to hike marked trails on public lands. Dogs belonging to retards who won't keep them from being in a position to bite other people on public land have no right to bite me unprovoked. The dogs and their owners are the ones who need to make changes in their behavior.

[SGT Rock]

I have never thru hiked, but still have quite a few miles of trail as well as walking close to home behind me. I find that 99.99% of the dogs I have encountered to be very friendly. I have been around dogs my entire life and have formed the opinion that dogs are only viscous and attack when they feel threatened. Have you ever thought that perhaps the dogs who supposedly attacked you felt threatened by you somehow. Threat to a dog does not always mean hitting them with or swinging a stick at them. I feel dogs have almost a sixth sense and sometimes perceive your threat. I feel like perhaps these dogs who supposedly attacked you perceived your threat to them and took offensive rather than defensive action.

Now some dogs will attack and guard without provocation. My Weimeraner will not allow any males into my yard unless I am outside with her. It is rare that she is outside without me, but sometimes if my wife or children goes out with her and I am gone, she will protect her and my children. One time I was trying to sell a vehicle and my family was outside while I was at work. Two men stopped to look at the vehicle, she almost chewed their leg off. But any other time, she would have run up to them and rolled over wanting her belly petted. It is instinct. Dogs protect their territory and sense predators and fear. Perhaps an adjustment in your attitude towards dogs and their owners would improve your interaction with the canines and their owners.

Just my opinion though with over 30 years experience with dogs.

Id rather not turn this into another dog thread, but I have seen dogs get aggressive for no good reason. I've seen dogs encircle children - the dogs had to approach the kid not the other way around. I agree about the territory aspect, but when the dog decides the trail, camp, or whatever has become their territory they can act as though a person is entering their space with no real reason to act that way other than a misguided sense of instinct combined with an inappropriate application of that instinct to the situation. As for sixth sense it really doesn't bear out. Civil rights workers in the 60s that were attacked by dogs probably had nothing against the dogs until they got attacked.

Anyway, lets get back to talking trail and not try to blame MS for getting attacked by a dog when you didn't see what predicated it.

[minnesotasmith]

I'm just speaking to appropriate shelter density and bringing up a point I mentioned earliier.

MS, I agree with Two Speed that this trail system is probably well within your skills. I just recall from your hike you had problems with the "standards" of trail maintenance that you found on the AT. My experience with the PT (though a little dated) is they were intentionally not grooming the trail up to the AT standards - though they seem to be adding shelters.

But once you get to the end of the PT you will have to hit the BMT. They have a whole other management philosophy which is very anti-shelter and one of a more wild trail experience. Their idea of a wild trail makes the AT look like a groomed city park.

I point all that out because of your past statements about how the ATC was letting things go - well if you go this way you will see a lot worse. But just be advised it was meant to be like that. Personally I think you would like the experience and you would have a good time - as long as you forget all that stuff about what a trail should be like. If that sort of thing does really bother you, then the PT/BMT trail to the AT may annoy you so much that in interferes with your ability to have a good time.

Again, I think you can make it just fine. I encourage you to do this.

Whatever the PT and BMT are like, they're not for very long compared with the AT. Plus, with the time of year I'd be passing through there, ticks from neglected trail maintenance shouldn't be be much of an issue, I expect.
Anyway, I would want to hit Amicalola at a good clip, something approaching 9-10 mpd most days so I'd have a fair shot at thruing in 5 months. As there's nothing like hiking to get you in shape for it, I figure that hiking the PT as an immediate prelude would up my chances. Plus, it looks like an interesting trail, one I haven't had the good fortune to be on yet.