Ticks and Lyme Disease

[highway]

thanks Shades of Grey
I read the CDC site after posting the question...it sounds like the best measure is to do daily tick checks, and if you find something that may have been on you longer than a day...then take doxycycline. Use deet (safe for skin), or permethrin (not on skin) on clothes.

The obvious answer for tick inspection is that there will still remain 60-70% of the body we just cannot inspect, without help anyway. I hike alone so I just cannot imagine stripping naked each day to check my front part for ticks then wandering naked over to the nearest shelter and asking for volunteers to help with the part I cannot see. I can only imagine what that response would be!! Not that I wouldn't do it, mind you, but I certainly have never had anybody ask me to check theirs!

Many times when I make camp it is dusk or later with little remaining light to see the little tick on me assuming i still had enough energy to even look.

So, what about the part of the body one cannot see? What if one is burrowing into the skin there, on the back of the body or on or near the nether region? You want even be able to see the bullseye (or partial bullseye rash), even if one were to develop.

Also, I am not convinced that DEET is so 'safe for skin' and it does disappear or at least becomes diluted with sweat, so multiple daily applications would be required to be effective. And I suppose that daily applications of permethrin could likely have some side effects of a long term nature that I'd prefer not dealing with either.

But some may choose to do so. While I don't know the odds, I still suspect that contracting Lyme disease is a possible but unlikely possibility for most who walk the trail. So, I just don't feel the need, for me at least, to go overboard in trying so hard to prevent something I may not get at all. But that is my point of view. But then I really don't filter or treat most of the water I drink either.

[ChinMusic]

Also, I am not convinced that DEET is so 'safe for skin' and it does disappear or at least becomes diluted with sweat, so multiple daily applications would be required to be effective. And I suppose that daily applications of permethrin could likely have some side effects of a long term nature that I'd prefer not dealing with either.

But some may choose to do so. While I don't know the odds, I still suspect that contracting Lyme disease is a possible but unlikely possibility for most who walk the trail. So, I just don't feel the need, for me at least, to go overboard in trying so hard to prevent something I may not get at all. But that is my point of view. But then I really don't filter or treat most of the water I drink either.

Permethrin is not something that is applied daily. It should last for 4-6 weeks on clothing. Permethrin is def something I would choose to use to treat my clothing. I am convinced the risk/reward curve greatly favors me if I am walking the trail in Virginia in June. Of course, staying home would put me at even less risk, but life must be lived.....

Since you choose not to treat water our views on risks are certainly different.

[Appalachian Tater]

But some may choose to do so. While I don't know the odds, I still suspect that contracting Lyme disease is a possible but unlikely possibility for most who walk the trail. So, I just don't feel the need, for me at least, to go overboard in trying so hard to prevent something I may not get at all. But that is my point of view.

Lyme disease is a very serious, debilitating illness. Every hiker should educate himself regarding the disease and take whatever precautions he feels necessary. At the least, be able to recognize the symptoms so you can seek treatment if infected. It is NOT an unlikely occurrence for a thru-hiker, and ticks are very prevalent and quite small. Unfortunately, many will contract the disease and some will not be treated and will suffer permanent damage.

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/lyme/lyme.htm

Seven to 10 days following an infected tick's bite, the first stage of Lyme disease begins with flu-like symptoms such as fever, chills, swollen lymph nodes, headaches, fatigue, muscle aches, and joint pain. Neurological complications most often occur in the second stage of Lyme disease, with numbness, pain, weakness, Bell's palsy (paralysis of the facial muscles), visual disturbances, and meningitis symptoms such as fever, stiff neck, and severe headache. Other problems, which may not appear until weeks, months, or years after a tick bite, include decreased concentration, irritability, memory and sleep disorders, and nerve damage in the arms and legs.

[Wags]

sorry to bump this up but i've recently found out from a reliable source that it takes 48 hours for a tick to pass lymes to us. so you'll be able to see any tick (big or tiny) that is trying to transmit it in time to remove it - b/c it'll be big enough to see when it starts to get engorged w/ blood. just thought it was noteworthy and wanted to pass that info along...

[Old Grouse]

You may be able to spot the tick if you're looking in the right place, but remember: (a) deer ticks are really, really small and (b) they're instictive masters at hiding where you're less likely (or able) to look. Good luck.

[ChinMusic]

Yes, there is a reason so many people get Lyme Disease. One of the main reasons is that the deer tick is so freaking small and easily missed.

IMO, permethrin-treated clothing is a must once a NOBO hits mid Virginia. But, HYOH

[Appalachian Tater]

sorry to bump this up but i've recently found out from a reliable source that it takes 48 hours for a tick to pass lymes to us. so you'll be able to see any tick (big or tiny) that is trying to transmit it in time to remove it - b/c it'll be big enough to see when it starts to get engorged w/ blood. just thought it was noteworthy and wanted to pass that info along...

Please give your source, as your information is incorrect, wrong, untrue, and potentially harmful to other people. Tick-borne disease is serious--sometimes permanently debilitating--and there is no room for misinformation.

[take-a-knee]

Please give your source, as your information is incorrect, wrong, untrue, and potentially harmful to other people. Tick-borne disease is serious--sometimes permanently debilitating--and there is no room for misinformation.

Give it up Tater, are getting senile? That study has been bandied about here for a year, I've read it, you had to have read it. Take notes man. IIRC YOU posted the link to the study. It was the same study you cited as proof not to take tetracycline post tick exposure, the same study that said that 200mg of tetracycline appeared to offer complete protection against transmission of Borriela burgdorfi (Lyme).

[Appalachian Tater]

Give it up Tater, are getting senile? That study has been bandied about here for a year, I've read it, you had to have read it. Take notes man. IIRC YOU posted the link to the study. It was the same study you cited as proof not to take tetracycline post tick exposure, the same study that said that 200mg of tetracycline appeared to offer complete protection against transmission of Borriela burgdorfi (Lyme).

1. Lyme disease can be transmitted in less than 48 hours.

2. You will NOT necessarily be able to see the tick. I even posted a link to one study that showed that checking yourself for ticks was not a valid way to prevent Lyme.

3. The drug of choice is doxycycline, which is closely related to tetracycline.

4. Routine administration of prophylactic antibiotics is not routinely recommended just because a tick bit someone.

[take-a-knee]

1. Lyme disease can be transmitted in less than 48 hours.

2. You will NOT necessarily be able to see the tick. I even posted a link to one study that showed that checking yourself for ticks was not a valid way to prevent Lyme.

3. The drug of choice is doxycycline, which is closely related to tetracycline.

4. Routine administration of prophylactic antibiotics is not routinely recommended just because a tick bit someone.

I was wrong, you are correct that doxycycline is the drug-of-choice for Lyme, and you can bet your sweet a$$ I'll be swallowing 200mg of it everytime I pull a tick off of my a$$. So, prophylactic use of antibiotics is never reccomended huh. I guess you've never been to a malaria-endemic area, the last time I checked the daily regimen was...doxycycline (wonder of wonders).

[Appalachian Tater]

So, prophylactic use of antibiotics is never reccomended huh.

I never said that at all. You're trying to put words in my mouth. Please re-read what I wrote. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of doses of appropriately-prescribed prophylactic antibiotics are administered daily.

And yes, I have been to areas where malaria was endemic. Recommended prophylaxis varies according to the region and the individual. For instance, doxycycline may not be appropriate for pregnant women and children.

If you want to know more about it, go here: http://wwwn.cdc.gov/travel/yellowBookCh4-Malaria.aspx

[dessertrat]

I've heard (a myth maybe) that some hikers have tried wearing anti=tick/flea dog collars around their ankles, like the "Hartz 2 in 1". Any thoughts about whether these have any success in helping to keep tics off?

I'll bet they would work, but are they safe for humans to wear?

[dessertrat]

Lyme disease is a very serious, debilitating illness. Every hiker should educate himself regarding the disease and take whatever precautions he feels necessary. At the least, be able to recognize the symptoms so you can seek treatment if infected. It is NOT an unlikely occurrence for a thru-hiker, and ticks are very prevalent and quite small. Unfortunately, many will contract the disease and some will not be treated and will suffer permanent damage.

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/lyme/lyme.htm

Seven to 10 days following an infected tick's bite, the first stage of Lyme disease begins with flu-like symptoms such as fever, chills, swollen lymph nodes, headaches, fatigue, muscle aches, and joint pain. Neurological complications most often occur in the second stage of Lyme disease, with numbness, pain, weakness, Bell's palsy (paralysis of the facial muscles), visual disturbances, and meningitis symptoms such as fever, stiff neck, and severe headache. Other problems, which may not appear until weeks, months, or years after a tick bite, include decreased concentration, irritability, memory and sleep disorders, and nerve damage in the arms and legs.

All true, Tater, but some people just don't get it. I have even met people as recently as a year ago who think Lyme disease is a "myth" or "all in people's heads" and that nobody has identified a pathogen for it. Bizarre but true.

[angewrite]

Wearing anti-tick/flea collars is very dangerous. The chemicals used to ward off the ticks can seep into the body causing more problems than the potential tick bite. I used Deet most of the time which helped a lot but I still had to pull off the occasional tick (fortunately none of them had bitten me at that point) The ticks were the worst from SNP to NY. Comming out of Vernon, NJ a couple somehow pitched their tent on/near a ticks nest. They spent days picking 100's of ticks off of each other.

Good luck and see a doctor if you suspect lyme disease.

-Bobcat

[Appalachian Tater]

Comming out of Vernon, NJ a couple somehow pitched their tent on/near a ticks nest. They spent days picking 100's of ticks off of each other.

Okay, I just have to ask, what does a "ticks nest" look like? Is it more like an ant hill or a bird nest or a wasp nest?

[Montego]

Wearing anti-tick/flea collars is very dangerous. The chemicals used to ward off the ticks can seep into the body causing more problems than the potential tick bite. I used Deet most of the time which helped a lot but I still had to pull off the occasional tick (fortunately none of them had bitten me at that point) The ticks were the worst from SNP to NY. Comming out of Vernon, NJ a couple somehow pitched their tent on/near a ticks nest. They spent days picking 100's of ticks off of each other.

Good luck and see a doctor if you suspect lyme disease.

-Bobcat

I was thinking more along the line of wearing the tick/flea collar over my socks rather than directly in contact with my skin. Still wonder if this might be effective or should one stick to permethrin for clothing and DEET for skin? Comments?

[Mercy]

"Okay, I just have to ask, what does a "ticks nest" look like? Is it more like an ant hill or a bird nest or a wasp nest?"

Tater, I was wondering that myself, but I decided they are probably more like termites, that you don't see the nest until all the varmits come running out... or your house falls down... Otherwise, we'd never pitch our tents near them....

Mercy

[take-a-knee]

I was thinking more along the line of wearing the tick/flea collar over my socks rather than directly in contact with my skin. Still wonder if this might be effective or should one stick to permethrin for clothing and DEET for skin? Comments?

No flea collars, permethrin for clothing and DEET on exposed skin. Buy a carry a headnet and impregnate it with permethrin, they don't weigh much. A floppy brimmed hat works best as it holds the net away from your face/head.

[take-a-knee]

"Okay, I just have to ask, what does a "ticks nest" look like? Is it more like an ant hill or a bird nest or a wasp nest?"

Tater, I was wondering that myself, but I decided they are probably more like termites, that you don't see the nest until all the varmits come running out... or your house falls down... Otherwise, we'd never pitch our tents near them....

Mercy

I'm not entomologist but I've gotten covered up with ticks while beating the bushes off trail.

[Montego]

No flea collars, permethrin for clothing and DEET on exposed skin. Buy a carry a headnet and impregnate it with permethrin, they don't weigh much. A floppy brimmed hat works best as it holds the net away from your face/head.

Thanks take-a-knee. Already have the headnet, just wasn't sure about the best way to go with the repellent.