What about wheels?

[Mom Lamb]

I am wondering how a foldable, lighweight frame with wheels would work on the AT? Here's the problem:

I have fibromyalgia with rheumatoid arthritis, as well as lumbar and cervical disk bulges from a car accident. I can hike, but I can't carry a lot of weight. I am researching a thru-hike of the AT (Don't know when I'll be attempting it). I plan to hike ultra-light, as much as possible. I don't want to slack-pack. Llamas are out (I checked ). So...(please don't laugh) I'm thinking of having my husband design and build a frame with 2 wheels that I can affix my backpack and sleeping gear to and pull as I hike (kinda like a travois).

There must be areas where I can pull, but also areas where I'd have to shoulder my back pack, fold the frame and carry it. Maybe part of the apparatus can double as hiking poles? I'd need to make sure the wheels are the type that can bounce over roots and rocks...

What is the condition of the trail for pulling such a frame? I know it is very rough in some areas...

[Peaks]

Well, the bigger the wheel, the easier it's going to get over rock and roots.

If you want to experiment with something like that, make up a prototype and take it out on trails in a local state park or forest that has a trail system. See how you like it.

You might start out with the dolly that some people use to portage canoes with.

[chris]

Most (all?) wilderness areas have an injunction against mechanized travel. So, for example, no bikes or carts (even ungeared, simple Mormon carts). Certainly in places like the Smokys you won't be able legally to do so. While there are not too many officially designated (large) wilderness areas on the AT, there are enough to make life difficult. Now, I think the rule is a crock, as a horse (which is legal in many wilderness areas) is going to cause a lot more damage to the trail than a set-up like the one you are describing would. Note that a travois, I think, would be perfectly legal, as it isn't mechanical (just a frame of sticks). Of course, it would be a real pain to use for 2100+ miles. Although you say that llamas are not possible, they may be your best bet. You'd have to (probably) get them around the Smokys and the Baxter Nazis would (probably) pitch a fit, but who knows? If you want, I can put you in touch with a woman who has hiked the PCT with Llamas so you can get a first hand perspective.

[Kerosene]

As long as you can carry the whole thing for a mile or so over the rockiest areas, you might be able to make something with big wheels work. You'll want to keep it as narrow as possible to avoid having the wheels catch on plants and rocks along narrow trails. Regardless, you'll probably have to heft the thing over and around obstacles once every mile or so. If this works out, you may be the first thru-hiker to need a tire patch for your first aid kit!

[Lilred]

Most (all?) wilderness areas have an injunction against mechanized travel. So, for example, no bikes or carts (even ungeared, simple Mormon carts). Certainly in places like the Smokys you won't be able legally to do so.

I'm not so sure this is accurate. I doubt the Smokies could legally keep someone off the trail that is in a wheelchair, as hard as it would be to go over some trails in a wheelchair, I doubt the 'powers that be' could legally put a stop to it. Since the purpose of this wheeled pack is due to health reasons, I think, (and I'm not a lawyer so I may be wrong), but I would think that the same legalities would apply. Any lawyers out there that know more about this?

[smokymtnsteve]

The AT is posted FOOT TRAVEL ONLY....

[Mom Lamb]

Thanks, Peaks, that’s a great idea; I think I will do that. Most of Florida’s trails are flat with few rocks and I need to know what the trail condition in the AT is like. I hear that there are a lot of rocks in the PA section, for instance. Chris and Smokymtsteve, I appreciate your input on the injunction against mechanized travel in the Smokies. I’ll do some checking into the legalities. I’d think a travois would do more damage to the trail and the plants beside it than wheels would, but…anyway yes, it would be due to my physical handicap and Steve, I would be traveling BY FOOT, just pulling my gear rather than carrying it. As to llamas, they’re out. They would be more of a complication than a help, especially when going into town for re-supply. And the price to rent one is more than I want to spend. I’m trying to keep costs as low as possible. Thanks Kerosene. Hadn’t thought of tire patching. I was thinking of using something like 6 “ garden cart wheels—non inflated tires.

Thanks all of you. Any input is welcome. I'm sure there are things I haven't thought about.

[Doctari]

I kant see a legal problem, but I aint that versed on that stuff.

Might I suggest a one wheeled cart?

Reasons:
There are many places that the AT is fairly narrow, this would allow you to travel without (as much) worry about catching on things.
Ease of construction, a bicycle front fork & some sort of harness.
Smaller, takes up less space in tent or shelter or wherever.
Lighter, nuff said.

But: a single wheel isn't as stable, so you need to decide what is more important. I think that a single wheel with a 2 point hitch at your waist would be stable enough.


Some randome ideas / points:
A smaller wheel would be more stable,
A larger wheel would roll better & take bumps better.
If you can lower the center of gravity you may compensate for a larger wheel. Perhaps putting the bike fork on upside down would lower the center.
Or, , , hang the pack below the frame.
I wonder if a brake is dooable, for those long down hills.


I too have arthritus, so understand. Without trekking poles I can't hike.

Doctari.

PS: drop an e-mail & we can talk. I will put this in front of my sons, see if they can't come up with a few ideas.

[Blue Jay]

I truly think that it would be harder on your body to do it with wheels because you would have to carry it more often than not and it would add weight. On the other hand, people also told the Wright Brothers that you can't fly. Go for it.

[chris]

I'm not so sure this is accurate. I doubt the Smokies could legally keep someone off the trail that is in a wheelchair, as hard as it would be to go over some trails in a wheelchair, I doubt the 'powers that be' could legally put a stop to it. Since the purpose of this wheeled pack is due to health reasons, I think, (and I'm not a lawyer so I may be wrong), but I would think that the same legalities would apply. Any lawyers out there that know more about this?

I did a little looking this morning into regulations concerning wheeled travel in wilderness areas. It appears that each regulatory body is allowed to make its own specific rules as long as they are in line with the Wilderness Act of 1964. Most of the sites (all forest service) say specifically that not wheeled devices, except wheelchairs, can be used in a wilderness area. Some do not include the wheelchair exception. All specifically ban carts.
Figuring that the BLM would have more relaxed rules, I looked a bit at some of their documents. They appear to ban, or are considering a ban (it isn't clear how current the document I was looking at was), everything, even wheelbarrows for trail maintenance. National Parks will have their own set of rules and I didn't take the time to dig at the Smokys regulations to find out their policy.

Now, as far as whether or not the wheelchair exception allows for wheeled or other mechanical devices to allow someone otherwise not able to use the land, I do not know. I suspect it would not. For example, should Christopher Reeves be allowed to drive a Land Cruiser across the AT on the Smokys, because he could not otherwise use the land? This is somewhat silly, as what Mom Lamb is proposing would have a minimal impact upon the land and Christopher Reeves certainly would. Whether or not you can get permission for a small, pulled cart, I'd still do it, Mom Lamb.

[Pedestrian]

I was up at Mountain Crossings (Neels Gap, GA) last weekend and Wes was showing me a backpack with wheels that someone had tried to use last season. The guy's idea was to pull it most of the way. It had taken a beating! The frame welds were broke. The wheels were torn up. The material was torn. All of this in 30 miles!

I would first look into ultralight equipment. It is possible to carry a sub 20 lbs. pack if you work at it. I don't know you condition so this may not be an option.

If you do decide to build something it had better be very rugged. I can not imagine dragging something up some of those hills. Some switchbacks are very tight turns that would cause your cart to track to the inside and get hung. Plus the material for the pack would have to be supper heavy duty to withstand constant abrasion. By the time you have built this thing strong enough to withstand the beating it will take it will be most likely too heavy for you to lift for any amount of distance.

Sorry, it’s just my opinion.

[jlb2012]

Might I suggest a one wheeled cart?

For a look at an existing product see: http://www.wheelpacker.com

Personally my take is that it would be against regs for it to be used in a wilderness area and the existing product looks to be too heavy to carry any distance. It might be manageable for two people but even then it strikes me as probably too difficult to use for some areas of the AT even if it were not against regs.

[trailsnail]

Have you thought about recruiting a strong hiking partner to carry some of the your load? If you both went with light weight gear it probably wouldn't be unreasonable...

[firefly]

Hi there..as some of the folks on this website know I was an experienced backpacker that led outdoor trips for 20 years. Then I got totalled by a drunk driver. It has taken me 6 years to get back on the trail again. I have permanent damage to alot of body parts including my back. The people on this website have given me some wonderful advice and thanks to them I have part of my life back. Here are some of my thoughts. If you want to design something to carry you gear find the rehab center in your area for people with spinal cord injuries. You would be amazed at the lightweight-custom designed gear that disabled people use now. It sounds like you want a single wheeled pullcart, people have used them to hike across continents...you would definitly need a pneumatic wheel..go to the people who use walker and wheelchairs to get around-they are wheel experts and most of them are gear freaks..they can give you some good advice and refer you to the local shop that has this stuff. My other thought is this...It may be easier to carry ultralite gear than to pull a load over the AT terraine, especially if you are hiking with a partner. But the most important thing you should try out is a Hammock. I have so much chronic pain it is very hard to sleep but I do not have this problem in a hammock. I would sleep in it at home if I could.

[attroll]

I looked at the Wheelpacker web site. It looks like a pretty neat idea. It would would work well on flat terian and the occasional rocks. But on the mountains that are steep and full of rocks I think it would be out of the question. But that is my opinion.

[Rain Man]

For a look at an existing product see: http://www.wheelpacker.com

I visited the site and sent an email asking him about the legalities of use in the GSMNP. I'll let you know what he says. Here's some stuff from the site in the meatime:

"The need for such an implement was clearly demonstrated to me one beautiful October afternoon in the Smokies. My wife and I were descending the Sweat Heifer Trail from the AT when we passed an obviously fit young man making the ascent with a large backpack on the way to the AT and a few days in the backcountry. About a mile further down we ran into his significant other and she was not happy. She was struggling under an equally large backpack and not enjoying the hike at all. I, like most hikers, have seen many backpackers on the trails and most of them didn’t look like they were having a lot of fun. These recollections and the overloaded woman caused me to do a lot of thinking out loud, much to the annoyment of my wife, all the way back to the car about "a better way" to transport gear."

"Apparently I was in the right place at the right time. We spend a lot of time in the backcountry and I have a 40 year career in mechanical design of farm and military equipment and spaceflight hardware...."

Also....

"Wheelpacker is NOT intended for bushwhacking or the exploration of unknown trails and it SHOULD NEVER be used on foot logs, cliffside trails or any other situation where a user's slip or fall could have consequences beyond the footing the user had at the time...."

[TJ aka Teej]

What an interesting thread! I'll end up mobility challenged eventually due to my spinal arthritis, and I've always wondered about things like this.
Someone has, by the way, wheeled something from Georgia to Maine a while back. Myron Avery pushed a measuring wheel from Oglethorpe to Katahdin. Hey MomLamb! Put a odometer on your wheeled-travois-thingy, and see if the ATC will sponser you :O)

[Peaks]

measuring wheels are still used. I saw Dave Field up on Saddleback using one when I went through. It's similar to a bicycle wheel and fork.

[TJ aka Teej]

measuring wheels are still used. I saw Dave Field up on Saddleback using one when I went through. It's similar to a bicycle wheel and fork.

Here's a photo of Avery on Katahdin with his wheel.
www.nationaltrust.org/magazine/ _images/story/app3.gif

[Uncle Wayne]

Good Luck Mom Lamb. I have to believe it would difficult if not impossible to use it without carrying it down the north side of Blood Mountain, the most recent section I hiked and I'm sure there are much worse sections I haven't seen yet. I'm afraid it would be more of a burden than a help on most of the trail. But where there's a "wheel" there's a way, I guess!