WhiteBlaze "For Profit"?

[StoveStomper]

There's some newbie (hiker99/Dave) over on thebackpacker.com forums claiming you guys are "For Profit" and his new AT Forum is not.
http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailta...ad/49764,3.php

I thought that was kinda a strange way to describe WhiteBlaze.

[Nightwalker]

There's some newbie (hiker99/Dave) over on thebackpacker.com forums claiming you guys are "For Profit" and his new AT Forum is not.
http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailta...ad/49764,3.php

I thought that was kinda a strange way to describe WhiteBlaze.

He's the ex-owner of this place. He has some real resentments going.

His beef is basically over AT Troll selling a trail guide. I think he's a nut, but some people are on his side.

It hardly matters one way or another, really, but you should have seen some of his more insane posts here from the "old days."

I hope that he does well with his site, but I really wish that he wouldn't do it by knocking this one. Or at least knocking one of the owners of this one.

[Uncle Silly]

I think I met Dave at the Gathering. Wasn't that him, way too drunk most of the time and constantly, incoherently babbling?

AFAIK Whiteblaze is organized as a "for-profit" business, so that bit's correct (if not precise). There's no requirement for a for-profit organization to actually make a profit. That's the lack of precision in Dave's statement: he's implying they are (making a profit). It's a rhetorical trick and IMHO a particularly dirty one.

Personally I'd be happy if Troll and Rock made enough from Whiteblaze that they wouldn't need separate day jobs, but I don't think that's the case.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Is this the same guy that used to shut this site down for a few days every so often? If so, I hope he is more stable now or participating in the new site will be like - well, like participating here was before Dixi, Rock and Troll took over. I'm sure some stories about what that was like will ensue in this thread

I wish Former Admin / Easy / Dave well, but if his only reason for starting the site was a problem with Troll's business interests away from the site I doubt the venture will succeed. Running a site like this takes a lot of work and sacrifice. If you aren't there because you care, you just can't hang in there.

[attroll]

Yes it seems he does have some resentment towards me. I can see this after reading his post on his web site. I am sorry he feels this way. I don’t know why though. Since me and Rock have worked out the differences with the guidebook and all is resolved, I don’t know what his issues are. As you can see I posted a reply in on the Trail Talk forums responding to his nonprofit assumptions. I probably should not have replied at all but just wanted everyone to know that we are still a nonprofit web site even though we are not reporting to the IRS as a nonprofit. The guidebook issue has been hashed out and resolved and that does not need to be brought up anymore, its old news.

I am not going to get involved in any of this at all. I am not going to drag anything up from the past.

Here is what I posted as my reply on Trail Talk.

Dave

Nice to hear from you again, I will jump in and give my two cents on this. WhiteBlaze is a nonprofit web site. We stopped reporting to the IRS as a nonprofit web site only because it was recommended advice from lawyers and consultants.

We do not put any of the donations form the web site into our pockets. We do not see one red cent of any of the donations coming in. All profits go right back into the web site and anything left over goes to other Appalachian Trail organizations.

Just because we switched from reporting as a nonprofit to the IRS dose not necessarily mean we are not nonprofit. You should check into what you saying before you make assumptions.

I also find it funny that you picked the name you did for your web site when www.athiker.net is our other web site that we own that we use for testing things out before they get installed on our WhiteBlaze web site. If this all intended as some kind of joke then it is a tasteless one? Then again that is your style.

[EWS]

I'll file this in the "don't give a chit" folder.

[Smile]

Ditto.

[camojack]

I think I met Dave at the Gathering. Wasn't that him, way too drunk most of the time and constantly, incoherently babbling?

That was him, all right.

[SGT Rock]

I have e-mailed him about this. The site is not a Non-Profit 503C or whatever it is called, but we don't run it for profit. While there is a pool of funds for the site to cover us in case of lean months, there isn't a profit coming out of anything we do here. Neither Troll or I see a cent of money in this for our own use, and the occasional outlay above and beyond site and server costs (such as a feed or something) is agreed upon by both of us and has to be something that is related to the site. You won't see something like a thru-hike by one of us paid for with user donations.

[MOWGLI]

You won't see something like a thru-hike by one of us paid for with user donations.

Only section hikes?

Just kidding. Keep up the great work.

[buckowens]

I could use an under quilt for my section hike...just kidding

As a fellow soldier says best, "there are always whack jobs out there to keep life interesting."

I know how valuable my time is, and I know what it is like to be away from home on Uncle's dime for many months. The fact that Rock and Dixi dedicate their valuable time to the site is true testimony to their dedication. Especially considering how long Rock was just gone for. The same goes for the efforts of Attroll as well. If you have ever tried to sell anything (profit or not), it is truly a pain in the neck. Collecting money, shipping and all else that goes with it....Keep it up guys, and from those of us who benefit, thanks .

[CoyoteWhips]

Start a hiking BBS and make big bucks!

My theory is that good things should be profitable enough to keep them good, but if you guys wanna do it for free, I'm ok with it.

I could even live with a banner ad at the top, if it helped pay for the bandwidth.

[Fiddleback]

There's some newbie (hiker99/Dave) over on thebackpacker.com forums claiming you guys are "For Profit"...

To paraphrase that great sitcom, "Not that there's anything wrong with that...!" I sense in this thread and in the above quote the idea that 'profit' or actions that lead to 'profit' are not 'good.' I find this particularly disheartening since, like 'profit', our recreation experience promoted by this forum is paid for by what's left over after our expenses. Most of us wouldn't be backpacking if our revenues didn't exceed our costs of living, i.e., we didn't make a profit.

But beyond that, there are many definitions and concepts of 'profit' that don't fit an IRS description but none the less contain a motivational drive. I imagine that those behind this forum experience a benefit that is not measured in dollars. Likewise, there is an undefined amount of social good that results from this forum. The good feeling or good result that comes from doing something (social profit) is an externality that is hard to measure but is motivational none the less. It's just the payment that's different.

Filthy lucre!

FB

[FatMan]

I guess it is just the capitalist in me, but I would see nothing wrong if the admins here made a buck or two. It is a great site and they are providing a service to the hiking community. I respect Attrol and Rock for returning all available funds back into the website or hiking community, but if they should change that policy and pay themselves for their time, I would applaud them. Profit is not a dirty word.

[Appalachian Tater]

we are still a nonprofit web site even though we are not reporting to the IRS as a nonprofit.

That's probably not the best choice of words to silence critics. WhiteBlaze is either a registered non-profit or it is not. Consider saying "unprofitable website " rather than "nonprofit website".

It's probably also better not to ask for "donations" or talk about "donating members" if you don't want to be accused of using deceptive language. "Subscription" is a better term.

[weary]

Formal non profit designation (technically a 501c3) is important if you need to raise thousands of dollars a year to buy land because big donors want the tax deductions. Both of my land trusts are 501c3 organizations, Phippsburg Land Trust, and Maine Appalachian Trail Land Trust.

But for a small group the hassles of complying with IRS rules isn't worth it. Few who donate $10 or $20 to White Blaze do so because their contributions are tax deductible. Most probably take a standard deduction, anyway.

Weary www.matlt.org

[max patch]

It hardly matters one way or another, really, but you should have seen some of his more insane posts here from the "old days."

Remember some of those 3:00 am posts? If you slept in late you missed them as they soon got deleted.

Hopefully he's turned over a new leaf. From his site:

"....Swearing - Absolutely no swear words or disguiseing them by leaving a letter out etc

We will delete un-appropiate content and may even delete and block you from use of ATHiker.org if you have a problem with these few guidelines.

This is a G rated site, lets keep it that way...."

Sounds good. I hope he is successful.

[SGT Rock]

LOL. I love old DAve to death, but that is like putting Larry Flint in charge of "Where's Waldo" books. I think Dave would appriciate that compariosn. I hope it works out for him though.

[MOWGLI]

LOL. I love old DAve to death, but that is like putting Larry Flint in charge of "Where's Waldo" books. I think Dave would appriciate that compariosn. I hope it works out for him though.

Yeah. He'd probably rename it "Where's Dildo" at 2 AM, then apologize profusely the next morning. (can I say that on WB?)

As a recovering drunk myself, I hope he gets it together too.

[Fiddleback]

I hope he is successful.

...and profitable!

Profit vs. non-profit should only be meaningful to the IRS and those who are taxed. I doubt it has much impact on personal motivation inside either type of organization while some level of personal compensation will always be criticized by certain groups of on-lookers.

A little over 40 years ago Bob Dylan moved on from being the voice of the protest movement and supposedly 'sold out' to electrification...and took lots of criticism for the hint of a profit motive. Silly.

FB

I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more.
No, I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more.
Well, I try my best
To be just like I am,
But everybody wants you
To be just like them.
They sing while you slave and I just get bored.
I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more.
-- Bob Dylan, 1965