Going Off-Leash ...

[gsingjane]

Well I think this is about the last I'll say on this. A dog can approach my daughter "without my interceding" when it jumps out of the bushes as she's walking by. Or when she is hikiing maybe 20 feet in front of me with her big sister. Believe me, if a dog comes running up to us and any of the bigger people are there, we immediately get between Skippy and the dog. Whenever any of us hear rustling in the underbrush, if it is obviously bigger than a squirrel, we go on alert and make sure she's protected. However, it is very, very hard, as I think most people who hike with kids know, to keep a child right at your side every single second, especially on a multi-hour or -day hike. In fact I would say that would probably take an awful lot of the fun out of it for any child, to have to feel as if they can't leave mom's side for the entire time - why not stay home, then?

Fiortunately, we aren't approached by a dog every time we go hiking, whether this is on the AT or on any of the blue-blazed trails we're very lucky to have around here. We find, actually, that we probably encounter more dogs in the areas where people commonly walk them say from their houses, as opposed to the dog being a trail companion on a long distance hike. But I have really been amazed sometimes, I take Girl Scouts out on hikes as often as I can, and people will even permit their off-leash dogs to approach large groups of children. In almost every group there will be one or two children who are intensely afraid of dogs, but we seem to pick up a canine friend at least 1/2 the time we go out. (People also let their dogs roam in Girl Scout camps if they live adjacent to the camp, but that's a whole other discussion I guess!).

Jane

[mudhead]

Good hiking to you. Take some of those dog owners to task.

[shelterbuilder]

Agree with Shelterbuilder. I also have zero fuse with jumpers. Or aggressive animals, maybe less than zero.

Find a mild mannered dog/owner. Closed fist sniff. Let the dog lick her fist. She may giggle.

Not trying to rile you, but how does a dog approach your child without you interceeding? Vibram soles make excellent shields.

Teach her to baton twirl, you learn too. Hike with a staff. Both of you.

I disagree with the "Vibram sole" approach - that can teach a dog to be fearful of strangers, and it is the fearful dog that seems to bite without provocation or warning more often than the "vicious" dog. But that's just my opinion....

[shelterbuilder]

Well I think this is about the last I'll say on this. A dog can approach my daughter "without my interceding" when it jumps out of the bushes as she's walking by. Or when she is hikiing maybe 20 feet in front of me with her big sister. Believe me, if a dog comes running up to us and any of the bigger people are there, we immediately get between Skippy and the dog. Whenever any of us hear rustling in the underbrush, if it is obviously bigger than a squirrel, we go on alert and make sure she's protected. However, it is very, very hard, as I think most people who hike with kids know, to keep a child right at your side every single second, especially on a multi-hour or -day hike. In fact I would say that would probably take an awful lot of the fun out of it for any child, to have to feel as if they can't leave mom's side for the entire time - why not stay home, then?

Fiortunately, we aren't approached by a dog every time we go hiking, whether this is on the AT or on any of the blue-blazed trails we're very lucky to have around here. We find, actually, that we probably encounter more dogs in the areas where people commonly walk them say from their houses, as opposed to the dog being a trail companion on a long distance hike. But I have really been amazed sometimes, I take Girl Scouts out on hikes as often as I can, and people will even permit their off-leash dogs to approach large groups of children. In almost every group there will be one or two children who are intensely afraid of dogs, but we seem to pick up a canine friend at least 1/2 the time we go out. (People also let their dogs roam in Girl Scout camps if they live adjacent to the camp, but that's a whole other discussion I guess!).

Jane

Sometimes, it's a fine line to walk between making sure that your kids are safe, and making them believe that certain things are to be feared. I'm NOT about to tell you how to raise your daughter, but if she is able to overcome her fear of dogs in "social" situations, she will have scored a MAJOR victory. Our granddaughter (5 years old) is not too comfortable around dogs - we have four right now, and the younger ones are jumpers. Needless to say, they are crated when our granddaughter is in the house. But there's plenty of time for her to overcome her fears, and there's plenty of time to teach the dogs that they are to stay down!

[minnesotasmith]

I saw multiple heartbreaking "Lost Dog" signs along the AT during my thruhike last year. Undoubtedly most or all of them were about dogs that their owners were sure were adequately trained for off-leash.

Leaving aside that dogs tend to find porcupines, skunks, and bears (bringing a P.O.ed mother bear back to you could ruin your whole day), dogs often get hopelessly lost when in the woods. Buddy at Shaw's has worked retrieving hunting dogs that were miles from anything (findable only due to them wearing pricy tracking devices), and these are highly-trained dogs that are out in the woods off-leash regularly.

[Adam B]

Well this is a little nuts to me. I am a dog trainer and a service dog handler. I have encountered way too many dogs off leash and people aren't recognizing that this is a form a cruelty. You endanger the safety of yourself, the dog and other members of the public by having an out of control dog. By out of control I mean anytime the dog is out of your sight or not responsive to commands for whatever reason.

Any dog out of your sight is in and a danger. Every time I encounter an off leash dog on the trail, I pull a spare leash from my pack and leash it. I then call for the owner at the top of my lungs. If there is no response I take the dog to the local rescue and continue my hike. Many owners will be upset but more are surprised that Fido who hates walking on leash is behaving himself with me. I have to say though, if an off leash animal approached a child under my care, I would have more to say then you seem to have. I am sorry out of control animals have frightened your child Jane. Shelterbuilder's advice for overcoming the fears is on the mark, if this continues or worsens I would look for a counsellor to help your child.

Now I am climbing off my soap box.

Bootstrap- in answer to your question, off leash training is an extension of on leash training. The first step is to master the training on a 6' leash. If the dog can pass without missing a beat then you switch to a 20', and then to a 50' leash. The whole idea is for the dog to believe that you are in control no matter how far away you are. This process will last at least 3 months before you even consider off leash training and may take longer. You need to have at least 1 month of solid behavior at each level before continuing. Once you are consistent take the 6 foot leash and attach it to the longer leash and do the training. Then for short periods of time in controlled environments remove the long line but leave the 6 foot on through out the training. You are basically tricking them into thinking they are still on leash. As the training progresses you start having the dog wear a tab all the time, training or otherwise. This is what they dog will believe is the leash that is always on them. Slowly practice with control distractions like other animals and people. Always praise and reward. Consider teaching a halt/stop command and make sure your recall is perfect before giving commands when the leash is off or the dog will just learn to ignore the command.

There is a place for electric collars for precise off leash field training but you are better with the above training. If you are interested in e-training post and I can direct you further. For reference my dog is e-collar trained for a much higher level of off leash obedience and safety training in my absence.

[FatMan]

If your dog will not stay within your site, or your dog approaches other hikers without your direct consent, your dog belongs on leash.

I have two dogs, one of which hikes off leash. The other does not. I don't try to kid myself with our second dog thinking she is capable. We will continue to work with her, but I am not certain she will ever meet my standard to hike off leash.

When I read some of the posts here suggesting it is alright for dogs to run within an 1/8 mile perimeter, or dog owners suggesting how hikers should act when a (their) dog runs up to them, it becomes clear to me why so many hikers feel so strongly that dogs should not be allowed off leash on the AT.

[Bootstrap]

By out of control I mean anytime the dog is out of your sight or not responsive to commands for whatever reason.

Yes, that's a great definition. If either of these happen, it's not working.

Bootstrap- in answer to your question, off leash training is an extension of on leash training. The first step is to master the training on a 6' leash. If the dog can pass without missing a beat then you switch to a 20', and then to a 50' leash. The whole idea is for the dog to believe that you are in control no matter how far away you are. This process will last at least 3 months before you even consider off leash training and may take longer.

She's perfect on a 9 meter leash (16 feet?). I'm willing to give this 3 months if there's a good chance that I can trust her to stay in sight and responsive off leash for running and hiking. I'll have to find a 50 foot leash and try the next phase.

Once you are consistent take the 6 foot leash and attach it to the longer leash and do the training. Then for short periods of time in controlled environments remove the long line but leave the 6 foot on through out the training. You are basically tricking them into thinking they are still on leash. As the training progresses you start having the dog wear a tab all the time, training or otherwise. This is what they dog will believe is the leash that is always on them.

I'm sorry, I simply didn't understand this part. What is a tab? When you're doing the bit with two leashes, how is it that you trick the dog into thinking they are still on the leash?

Something like e-training may be interesting some time, but mostly I want her to come or down-stay when I ask her to, and I want to know what I should train her to do when she encounters all those other dogs you see on the trail.

Thanks!

Jonathan

[ChimneySpring]

If your dog will not stay within your site, or your dog approaches other hikers without your direct consent, your dog belongs on leash.

Dogs belong on a leash, period.

[Phreak]

I would love to take my dog with me when I run through the woods or hike or go backpacking.

But off-leash, she runs away. She's young and obedient enough to train, but I'm reluctant to let her get away too often while training her to go off-leash.

How should I train her?

Jonathan

Hey Jonathan,
Drop me an email, brian (at) hikes247 (dot) com. I can help you with the training.

[FatMan]

Dogs belong on a leash, period.

Your blanket statement is simply wrong. You are welcome to your opinion though. And your opinion certainly does support the remainder of my post that you chose not to include in your selected quote.

[cowboy nichols]

On trail--On leash. Many-many years hiking with dogs.

[Bootstrap]

On trail--On leash. Many-many years hiking with dogs.

I've seen dogs on the trail who do not approach people or other dogs unless their owner gives them permission, do not go out of site of the owner, and obey commands. If that's consistent, and their owners say it is, then more power to them. If my dog did the same, she'd be off leash.

For now, she's definitely on leash.

Jonathan

[Appalachian Tater]

I've seen dogs on the trail who do not approach people or other dogs unless their owner gives them permission, do not go out of site of the owner, and obey commands. If that's consistent, and their owners say it is, then more power to them. If my dog did the same, she'd be off leash.

For now, she's definitely on leash.

Jonathan

The problem is other people don't know whether or not your dog is a threat. It creates anxiety. I do not like having to mentally prepare myself for killing a dog with my hiking poles every time one runs at me or starts snarling or barking.

The only dog that is not a threat is one firmly on a leash in the hands of an adult. A big dog being held on a leash by a small child doesn't count.

If your dog is not on a leash, you are imposing on anyone you come across and endangering your dog. Period.

[ChimneySpring]

Your blanket statement is simply wrong. You are welcome to your opinion though. And your opinion certainly does support the remainder of my post that you chose not to include in your selected quote.

No, I'm afraid it's not. Per 'Tater's post, regardless of how well you believe your is trained or behaves, having them loose is imposing and dare I say disrespectful of others.

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site..._with_Dogs.htm

[Phreak]

No, I'm afraid it's not. Per 'Tater's post, regardless of how well you believe your is trained or behaves, having them loose is imposing and dare I say disrespectful of others.

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site..._with_Dogs.htm

Ignorance is bliss

[FatMan]

No, I'm afraid it's not. Per 'Tater's post, regardless of how well you believe your is trained or behaves, having them loose is imposing and dare I say disrespectful of others.

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site..._with_Dogs.htm

Ignorance is bliss

No, no...if Tater said it, then it must be true. Tater knows everything. Anyone who has spent just an hour on WhiteBlaze should know that.

[ChimneySpring]

No. The statement was common sense.

I'm an avid animal fan, have had many dogs as pets - including some highly trained ones who based on MY impression of their temperment, obedience and suitability for off-leash activities would be perfectly fine. But you know what? I'm respectful of others, their concerns, and understand that no matter how highly trained an animal is, there are certainly unforeseen issues that can arise that would negatively impact other people.

That's not ignorance, Phreak. It's consideration for others. Tough concept for some "dog lovers" to grasp.

[leeki pole]

No, no...if Tater said it, then it must be true. Tater knows everything. Anyone who has spent just an hour on WhiteBlaze should know that.

Haha...good one! Anybody knows that folks from NYC know more about dogs and dog training than us dumb*** rednecks from the South.

[Appalachian Tater]

Haha...good one! Anybody knows that folks from NYC know more about dogs and dog training than us dumb*** rednecks from the South.

I'm from farther South than you are.