Cougars ( mountain lions)

[longshank]

No I am serious, This was true about forty to twenty years ago... I used to go up and vist his cats. He had them declawed and defanged...He fed them fresh chickens

He had them declawed and defanged, then released them into the mountains?! That's really stupid. Those are the lions that will end up clipping off little kids because they can't hunt.

[Jim Adams]

saw a mountain lion on the trail in front of me in the Shenandoahs just before Waynesboro on my 1990 thru hike. reported it in town and no one would believe me until another hiker came into town a few hours later with a picture of it.
geek

[Zeth01]

I know this is nowhere near the trail but I saw a mountian lion Minocqua, Wisconsin and have seen MANY in Washington.

[Brrrb Oregon]

mostly instinct, i suppose smell to.

I have heard that there are people from cultures that don't eat a lot of meat that can't stand to be in an American concert hall or theatre. They aren't used to the strong BO.

[hoffhiker]

In 1998 I was camping at spence field. At almost dusk one crossed the far end of the clearing. It was black. I grew up in western north Carolina and allways have known of the lions in the woods.

[MuddyWaters]

In 1998 I was camping at spence field. At almost dusk one crossed the far end of the clearing. It was black. I grew up in western north Carolina and allways have known of the lions in the woods.

There has never been a confirmed black mountain lion.

Other species, such as leopards, can be black. Mexico has them however, and it is possible they may infiltrate the southern US/TX border and be mistaken for mountain lions. Most reports of black cats are believed to be mistaken identity because of this.

[johnnybgood]

saw a mountain lion on the trail in front of me in the Shenandoahs just before Waynesboro on my 1990 thru hike. reported it in town and no one would believe me until another hiker came into town a few hours later with a picture of it.
geek

Same year I also saw one in Shenandoah Nat'l Park. My wife confirms it was August 1990.

[Pedaling Fool]

There has never been a confirmed black mountain lion.

Other species, such as leopards, can be black. Mexico has them however, and it is possible they may infiltrate the southern US/TX border and be mistaken for mountain lions. Most reports of black cats are believed to be mistaken identity because of this.

That's true, both leopards and jaguars can be black, but leopards are not native to north america; jaguars, on the other hand, are native to north america and are making a comeback in the U.S., but that's not to say all the "black panther" (Melanistic jaguars) are jaguars, especially since this comeback is all happening from Mexico.

[Wise Old Owl]

Tis an old thread... seriously the Eastern Cougar is extinct.. The one in Delaware/Chester county white clay hasn't been seen in years.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service reviewed all available research and other information, and concluded in 2011 that the eastern cougar subspecies has been extinct since the 1930s, and recommended that it be removed from its list of endangered species.^[1] The agency used the 1946 taxonomy of S.P. Young and E.A. Goldman in defining the eastern cougar subspecies. While noting that some taxonomists in recent years have classified all North American cougars within a single subspecies, the agency's 2011 report said "a full taxonomic analysis is necessary to conclude that a revision to the Young and Goldman (1946) taxonomy is warranted."^[5]
The agency acknowledged the occasional presence of cougars in eastern North America, but believes these are of wanderers from western breeding ranges or escaped captives. Its review expressed skepticism that breeding populations exist north of Florida, noting, among other things, the lack of consistent road kill evidence comparable to known cougar ranges. However, the presence of cougars in the wild — whatever their taxonomy or origin — in eastern North America, continues to be controversial
Eastern U.S. reported sightings, many of which reviewed in the recent federal report,^[16]


http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/02...-of-suspicion/

[Pedaling Fool]

Tis an old thread... seriously the Eastern Cougar is extinct.. The one in Delaware/Chester county white clay hasn't been seen in years.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service reviewed all available research and other information, and concluded in 2011 that the eastern cougar subspecies has been extinct since the 1930s, and recommended that it be removed from its list of endangered species.^[1] The agency used the 1946 taxonomy of S.P. Young and E.A. Goldman in defining the eastern cougar subspecies. While noting that some taxonomists in recent years have classified all North American cougars within a single subspecies, the agency's 2011 report said "a full taxonomic analysis is necessary to conclude that a revision to the Young and Goldman (1946) taxonomy is warranted."^[5]
The agency acknowledged the occasional presence of cougars in eastern North America, but believes these are of wanderers from western breeding ranges or escaped captives. Its review expressed skepticism that breeding populations exist north of Florida, noting, among other things, the lack of consistent road kill evidence comparable to known cougar ranges. However, the presence of cougars in the wild — whatever their taxonomy or origin — in eastern North America, continues to be controversial
Eastern U.S. reported sightings, many of which reviewed in the recent federal report,^[16]


http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/02...-of-suspicion/

I'm not saying there are breeding populations on the east coast, but you can not ignore the sightings, not just in the Appalachians, but in many other states where they're suppose to be extinct, as well as eastern locations in Canada. Sure, some are misidentifications and some maybe escaped pets, but it does not make sense to attribute all the sightings in this vast area to those explanations, especially since it has been confirmed that their numbers are on the increase.


Then there are other factors to consider, such as we are not even sure if there was ever a distinct eastern species, if so, how far did they go? Where is the dividing line between the eastern sub-species and the western sub-species? http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/03/sc...ugar.html?_r=0

Excerpt:

"Scientists are moving toward the conclusion that the Eastern cougar was erroneously classified as a separate subspecies in the first place. As a result of a genetic study conducted in 2000, most biologists now believe there is no real difference between the Western and Eastern branches of the cougar family."


Even if it were a distinct sub-species, that doesn't seem to matter, because it's obvious that something is coming back, so to keep denying sightings is just putting off an inevitable. Would be nice if the govt were a little more proactive here, but figure the odds.


Fact is we just don't know with any real precision where they are established and where they are roaming, my bet is that they are established much further east than officially recognized and they are on their way back here; that is why the govt should be more proactive and stop making fun of people (in a very condescending manner) that report sightings. There's a reason they call them Ghost Cats; and not only are they stealthy and hard enough to find in the day, they do most of their hunting at night.

Do you really have that much faith in people telling you where they are established?

Remember this story: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...ennessee-creek

Excerpt:

"A new species of giant crayfish [has] literally crawled out from under a rock in Tennessee, proving that large new species of animals can be found in highly populated and well-explored places," Reuters reports.

Researchers Christopher Taylor and Guenter Schuster reveal the discovery in the latest issue of the Proceeding of the Biological Society of Washington (it costs $10 to buy the article). The Barbicambarus simmonsi is about 5 inches long — double the length of most crayfish in the region.."






BTW WOO, congrats on the new owl species found in Oman; I know you're excited over that

http://www.timesofoman.com/News/Article-23627.aspx

[Likeapuma]

Even though this thread is old..

A fellow member of a Rod & Gun club captured clear images of a cougar last year, on a motion sensor trail camera.

He took the pictures, along with a few of deer/other animals, for size comparison, to the CT DEEP & they basically told him "that's impossible, stop photoshopping".

I've heard rumor that state agencies are hesitant to admit the presence of the animal because they would have to stop development of land to provide a protected area for them to repopulate.

[imscotty]

WOO,

The number of credible sightings of mountain lions in the East from experienced outdoorsmen is overwhelming. There are cougars in the east. Some of these sightings are undoubtedly escaped pets, but as the DNA of the cougar that was killed in Connecticut in 2011 demonstrated, some are definitely migrating here from western populations.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...sightings?lite

Pedaling Fool, you are dead on about the condescending response from government officials towards all these sightings. I really have to wonder what their agenda is in denying the evidence.

I am old enough to recall that thirty years ago wildlife officials were also denying that there were any coyote in New England. We all know how that turned out.

[wren again]

Locals said they were seeing a mountain lion in the area, and were proved to be correct.http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/...?device=tablet

[Duramax22]

theyll deny they exist till one bites them in the ass

[aficion]

Tis an old thread... seriously the Eastern Cougar is extinct.. The one in Delaware/Chester county white clay hasn't been seen in years.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service reviewed all available research and other information, and concluded in 2011 that the eastern cougar subspecies has been extinct since the 1930s, and recommended that it be removed from its list of endangered species.^[1] The agency used the 1946 taxonomy of S.P. Young and E.A. Goldman in defining the eastern cougar subspecies. While noting that some taxonomists in recent years have classified all North American cougars within a single subspecies, the agency's 2011 report said "a full taxonomic analysis is necessary to conclude that a revision to the Young and Goldman (1946) taxonomy is warranted."^[5]
The agency acknowledged the occasional presence of cougars in eastern North America, but believes these are of wanderers from western breeding ranges or escaped captives. Its review expressed skepticism that breeding populations exist north of Florida, noting, among other things, the lack of consistent road kill evidence comparable to known cougar ranges. However, the presence of cougars in the wild — whatever their taxonomy or origin — in eastern North America, continues to be controversial
Eastern U.S. reported sightings, many of which reviewed in the recent federal report,^[16]


http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/02...-of-suspicion/

Old threads attract old fools. I have seen two Eastern Cougars in their native habitat. One in the Pink Beds region of The Cradle of Forestry in NC in 1973. The other was in the neighborhood of Tar Jacket Ridge which the AT traverses just north of Hwy 60 in VA in 2009. Clear sightings at close range in both instances. They are still here.
I also saw 30 Wild Turkeys today in a field beside I-81. They were practically extinct when I grew up.

Snowy owls are making a timely appearance in Florida.

Maybe Al Gore should make an appearance in Antarctica to free the frozen research vessels out to document global warming, got stuck in the ice......HMMMM.

[Second Hand]

I was backpacking in VT in November and shared a shelter w/ a guy who said he saw one in Shenandoah. He was on a day hike, they saw it and happened to run into a ranger a quarter mile down the trail. The ranger said he must have seen a large Bobcat or dog, as they were talking the Mountain Lion skirted by them about 30 feet off the trail and the Ranger went into a frenzy trying to get a picture.

My aunt is an assistant dean for UConn's school of agriculture. She leads a board that works w/ the U.S. fish and wildlife administration to confirm the existence of Mountain Lions in New England. There are huge cost to the State and Federal government if Mountains lions can be confirmed. To begin with, they need to add them to the endangered species lists and start taking measures to protect them. For this reason a lot of people feel that the government has looked the other way when handed concrete evidence of Mountain Lions.

[zelph]

There have been reports of mountain lions making a comeback along the trail. For many years these animals have been thought of all but extinct along the Appalachian Trail corridor. Anyone know anything about this or have any comments or experiences.

I came across this today while searching for something else:

http://www.angelfire.com/co/KlueLass/lions/attacks2.htm

This page covers 10 years of confirmed cougar attacks from researcher Paul Beier's last study date of December, 1990, beginning in January, 1991, and continuing trough December 2000 . Hunter incidents, attacks on animals, non-injury encounters, and accounts not confirmed to be cougar attacks have been moved to this separate Other Incidents Page.

[78owl]

They are alive and doing well. Just not as sociable as black bears. Like any other predator, they follow and stay where there is food. A friend of mine has several pictures of one in the WNC area.

[canoe]

where I live in N Eastern NC 30 yrs ago there were very few deer. Now they are everywhere. They must breed like rabbits. 25 yrs ago there were no coyotes. Now they are everywhere. 20 yrs ago absolutely no turkey now I see some in the fields almost everyday. Now in this region there have been cougar sighting. I have not seen one but my neighbor said he saw one in my back yard. (A large field next to a swamp) Eastern/Western or someones pet I dont know. But there have been too many sighting in the region them not to be here

[MDSection12]

This is a topic I have a great deal of interest in, and very little firsthand knowledge. I can agree with posters above talking about species making comebacks or new appearances even. My dad grew up in my area and said turkeys were non-existent... Now they're everywhere. Coyotes have shown up recently and though I haven't seen them I have heard them and seen their kills... Definitely new for this area.

As for the cougar, I've heard of possible sightings that turned out to be large bobcats, so I imagine that has to be a certain percentage of the reports... But I'm not positive it could be the whole story.

Anyone ever heard of government agencies releasing cougar? It sounds extremely far fetched to me, but I've heard some mountain men in my area claim that happened here years ago to cull the deer populations.