Cougars ( mountain lions)

[TakeABreak]

Panthers, are in the Appalachian mountain range!

My dad, is original from western West Virginia, an area south of near East Lynn Lake, while visiting there as kid in the 70's, I heard one, one night. I looked at my uncle and he told what it was, a panther. They have sound that will send terror through your body if you have never heard it before.

The only way I know to describe it, is that it sounds like a woman waling (spelling ?). What that means, it is as if she is screaming bloody murder, while she is being murdered. I studied the tracks, and I have seen tracks at locations on the A.T. that are those of a panther.

Although they were thought to have been killed off by stupid and ignorant people of 1800's and early 1900's, they never got them all. Which I am glad of.

While volunteering at the ATC, in July of 2000, I brought this question up about verification on panthers. Although it has never been thoroughly researched, I was told that every year they get reports from thru-hikers, ridge runners, park rangers and others about seeing tracks they believe are panther tracks from the descriptions. Catching a glimpse of crossing the trail in the distance or hearing one late at night.

They are out there, maybe by providing them a corridor in which to migrate (the trail) we can eventually get their population back up a reasonable one, so they will not be endangered anymore.

[highway]

"Black" panthers in the Appalachians? I suppose nothing is technically impossible but "black" panthers living in the Appalachians probably borders dangerously close to it. Even the few remaining Florida panthers around the Everglades are not even black and one would have a far better chance of winning lotto than getting a glimpse of one. Remember that a fleeting glimpse of many moving animals, even lighter-colored ones, would appear dark (black?) in the shadows or twilight. Anyway, most of us are notoriously poor observers. Just ask any cop who has gathered witness' statements to a traffic accident. Far too often all of us see more of what we want to see, rather than what we really do see.

Cougars in the Appalachians? I'd give that just a maybe, as much as I would love to believe it were true. I suspect that many of those sightings would turn out to be of those cursed unleashed dogs on the trail. Now there are a bunch of those in the Appalachians!

[Happy]

GIZMO, the LNT AT starter, saw a black panther in GA this past February and our fellow member Hacksaw has tracked them for over 5 years in GA and has seen several.

[Singletrack]

I think those of us that live everyday in this area are more aware of sightings of the Black Panther. I have talked to too many old timers, particularly in the Stecoahs, that have been seeing them for years. Not only sightings, but tracks, fur and droppings. Maybe they escaped from a zoo. I have no idea where they came from.

[highway]

Similar to Bigfoot in the west, it’s amazing how the “black” panther myth persists in the east.

Whether known as panther, cougar, puma, catamount, mountain lion or whatever, they are all the same animal and as adults are generally a tawny, tan color and not black. The chances of anyone spotting a black one are about the same as spotting an albino one-almost non-existent.

To make that likelihood even harder, Florida is the only east coast location with a known population of that species and its numbers are less than 50, I believe. While it is not impossible for these cats to be in the Appalachians, more proof is going to be required to establish that fact other than the report of an occasional sighting of one to be completely conclusive. And even then, it want be "black" in color. At best what was seen was a tan cat in low light conditions and thought black. More likely seen, though, were fleeting glimpses of either bobcat or dog sightings which were quickly mistaken for “black” panthers.

Here are three sites with good information about these cats, one of which distinguishes between a dog and this cat’s prints, in case you are “lucky” enough to spot one and able to confirm it:

http://www.hdw-inc.com/flapantherinterview.htm
http://www.patc.net/resources/florafauna/cougar.html
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/agarman/bco/fact2.htm

While the intentions were good, the sightings probably weren’t what the sighters wanted them to be-“black” panthers. Hopefully, though, they were, in fact, "panthers". Now that would be nice.

[Ramble~On]

Thought I'd share this one.

A coworker was recently talking about how her dog had gotten into a scrap with a something. I figured another dog..perhaps a bear.
She claimed a cougar. She also claims that they see cougar from time to time in her area. She lives in Balsam which is about 35 miles SE of Newfound Gap.
I have no reason to doubt her. I love these mountains around here which is why I live here. I hike a lot. I have never seen a cougar here.
Maybe someday.

[MedicineMan]

Kea and Kakapoo, two brothers from New Zealand thru-hiked this year and in their journal one brother reported seeing a catamount crossing the trail just a few feet in front of him.
We staid with these gentlemen at Thunder Hill Shelter, have been in contact with them since there hike, and would not doubt anything that either reported.

[Wyoming]

Those of you who live in the No. Va region may remember newspaper reports from about 7 years ago of numerous sightings of a mountain lion in Loudoun county along areas near the AT. My son and several of his friends observed the big cat (estimated at about 100-120 lbs) while bow hunting over about a 2 year period. My wife had it come out of the creek bed near our house when walking our dog at about the same time. Numerous others spotted the animal as well. On local saw the cat take down a full size deer. It was seen occassionaly for about 3 years. I believe one of the neighbors finally shot it as it has not been seen for a long time.

Before anyone has a heart attack about that a couple of notes. 1. it was not a native animal but had been released after being kept as a pet by one of the locals (I got this from the Game Warden - he was pretty certain who the person was); 2. the cat was NOT afraid of people as it should have been - wild cats do not come near people on purpose as this cat often did. 3. after it came out of the trees and followed to young girls walking down one of the private roads on their way to the bus stop many of the fathers in the area were talking about shooting it before someones kid got killed.

FOr those of you who are not sure about the bob cat or mountain lion difference: a bob cat is full size at about 25-30 lbs. It also has a call that sounds like a womand being murdered with a knife (raises the hair on your neck when you are sleeping in a tenta at night :); a mountian lion which is full sized is at least as big as a very large dog and can be as large as 150 lbs. They also have a very distinctive long rope like tail. Also the coloring of the two animals is very diffferent with the big cat being a sort of tawney brown most of the time, while a bob cat has a sort of motteled camoflage pattern.

Wyo

[sierraDoug]

Out here in coastal California the park authorities have recently taken to recommending any backpacker out alone hiking in the dark should wear a hard shell helmet (not a bike helmet). Mountain lions hunt at night, stalk their prey, and pounce on unaware victims from behind. They kill by crushing the skull in their powerful jaws. The helmet gives you a chance to fight them off. So, hike in groups, or in broad daylight, walk backwards, or get a head protector!

[grrickar]

I heard a large 'sounding' wildcat scream one night last month when I was staying at Cosby Knob Shelter. Whatever it was, it made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. I will never forget the sound. I found a wav file of a cougar scream and it sounded very similar.

[Ridge]

Most likely it was not a Black Panther. But, it could have been a black hog aka: bore hog. I've witnessed just such an incident when a bore was thought to be a bear, by my fellow hikers. A previous post was correct in stating that a stray dog could also have been mistaken for a big cat.

[R Guyer]

Should these large cats be released into our own backyards ??? Sep, 2003 hunting from a 19 ft. high tree stand one evening and looking out over a 200 yrd, pasture, I witnessed a large tan object with a redish back troting out of the woods and into a small patch of trees, then over the hill and out of sight..... all happening in the time it took you to read this. I was'nt real sure what I had just saw but i knew it was'nt no damn deer!!! I had to play it back in my memory, and dusk was setting in so i tried to make a possitive identification in my mind by the was it was trotting and the length of it's tail..... there was no dout in my mind, it was a mountain lion !!! this was the first time I ever saw a large cat, and did not know they where in this area i had just moved into... I heard in the 1960's there were not many deer in south carolina so the state released a large number of these herbivors into our backyards. now at the turn of the century the deer population is so strong the state has a new problem !!! so there answer to cut back on the deer was to release several of these carnivors into our backyards !!! ??? I think these large cats should have been left where they were, and left alone! and just up'ed the number of deer taken by hunters..... I've seen this moutain lion three times now in three years. 3 months after the first sighting i witnessed the cat at approximatly 8:30am as i was driving. about 50 ft. in front of my truck the cat ran across our street, the road is about 20 to 24 ft. wide. that cat was running so fast all four paws only hit the pavment "ONE TIME" !!! and it was gone..... I'm tellin you right now , if that thing were to attack you, you'ld be knocked to the ground and a 500 lb bite to the neck / throat to snap your neck, or over the face covering nose and mouth, and never knowing what the hell just hit you !!! after the second sighting i decided to buy a taurus 454... I honestly feel these large cats have the right to hunt where they now have been placed by our state, but when it comes down to my life or our childrens lives being placed in danger, """I'm takin the big cat out with as many rounds as it takes to stop it""" !!! I'm telling all of you that hike, camp, or walking your own property to beware and fight this thing with everything you got inside of you, and you have a good chance to live..... walk with a good hard stick, something easy for you to swing and heavy enough to hurt when hit with... if you do not have anything to use for a weapon use your fingers or thumbs to gouge the eyes, a cat hates to be hurt and will not risk injury for a meal or for the next hunt..... hunting season winter 2004/2005, same tree stand, same wood line, same cat.... only now he's bigger... what will the state do for us next ? sorry for any typo's..... Attn; Fish and wildlife services South Carolina. To whom it may concern, my dog has been missing for 6 months..... R.Guyer1

[R Guyer]

to whom it may concern, if i were you i'd get on the internet and read everything you can on mountain lions, cougers, pumas, panthers..... i wont walk alone any more in the day light without my gun at my side now knowing what i have seen ! the states and wildlife commitions have released a number of mountain lions to cut down on the deer population. i advise you to please carry a gun or some other weapon to assure your safty. one night when you have nothing to do go online and type in mountian lion or cougar attacks in north carolina and then you'll have a different approch to your safty here in the states..... these cats are showing up everywhere!!! RG

[dougmeredith]

the states and wildlife commitions have released a number of mountain lions to cut down on the deer population.

Source?

Doug

[tlbj6142]

I was thinking the same thing. Unless they did it in secret, it didn't happen. Heck folks bitch about releasing wolves in ME. Just imagine what sort of uproar (pun intended) would occur if they were to release courgars.

Besides, they seem to be making a very quite come back all on their own.


R Guyer == Bear Scared?

[Fiddleback]

This from the South Carolina Wildlife Federation web site:

"Today there are no wild reproducing populations of cougars in South Carolina. However, an individual animal is occasionally observed, or killed, as a result of someone releasing a "pet" cougar that got to be too much for them to handle. While there is some doubt the cougar still exists south of the Canadian Maritime provinces, significant sightings occur in Tennessee and North and South Carolina. Greenville and Pickens Counties are among the several counties where sightings have been reported in South Carolina. "

This from the web site of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers:

"It has recently been reported from north Georgia and North Carolina with sightings on the increase where a small population may exist. The increase may be due to an increase in deer populations and to more field observers with the initiative to report."

Consider...here in MT and many other western states there is a large population of mountain lions (a somewhat larger cat than the eastern and Florida species). There's also a large population of hikers, backpackers, and other outdoor recreationists. There are tragic incidents, just as there are with grizzlys, but given the numbers, they are very rare (in MT, more rare than grizzly encounters). The cats do seem to have an affinity for small prey and there's been lots of reports of joggers being attacked in other states...children and 'running prey' seem to be more at risk than others. One thing's for sure...if a cat has hunted you and has sprung...only Rambo is going to get a good shot off. Sidearms and rifles are probably more effective against a mountain lion than a grizzly but the cat is harder to hit. While some carry a weapon into the wilderness I have yet to see anyone here carry. And all my (limited) backpacking in MT has been in mountain lion and grizzly territory.

FB

[fiddlehead]

They tend to attack small children or small people who are moving fast. (they don't like things moving fast in their area) They don't attack backpackers much because the pack on back is something that confuses them. They're more apt to go for small, women joggers. If attacked, fight back. they don't want to get hurt. If you see one, you are lucky. If they decide to attack you, chances are you'll never see them until it's too late.
I've seen two of them in the wild. One in southern ca and one in northern ca. It made the hair on my arms stand up and i felt scared. (more so than i ever remember being) The one that i got close to (12' away) was stalking a dog that was running around below it (we were both on top of a 15' cliff) It was huge. the size of a man at least. Anyway, after the nerves wore off, i consider myself lucky to have witnessed this happening. I think i scared it off.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I saw an animal that looked very much like a mountain lion back in 1974 while hiking in the wild area of the GSMNP north of the Twenty Mile Ranger Station. I had heard the sound like a woman screaming several times the night before. I was walking over a small hill early in the day and the animal was on the next rise - maybe 75 to 80 feet away. It was a light brown with a long tail and was stretching like cats do. It was a big cat of some sort and far too large and the wrong color to be a bob cat.

[hacksaw]

Cougars don't stalk humans as a rule. In fact I have never had it proven to me that EASTERN mountain lions have ever been known to stalk a human, even a little bit!Cougars don't even care to hang around where human scent is present, as far as 30 years of occasional tracking experience has shown me.

That being said, I must say that in the past month I have seen a juvenile cougar within the ring of mountains here in North Georgia that make up the border of the development where I live. I have never known of such activity in such close proximity to man, but since this place is a game sanctuary and we have an overabundance of the long legged white tailed wood rats commonly referred to as deer, and since this season has produced an incredible number of fawns, hey, what's a young Cougar to do? Recently weaned, looking to establish his territory, runs up on this place with a 24/7 smorgasbord of fresh meat....looks like home to him!

These encounters were dead of the night run ins while driveing home.

I suspect that the full grown adult that I saw just outside the property about a year ago may well have been the producer of this (or perhaps these) young cat(s). I expect that evidence of its presence will soon be found, I just hope that the carcass of the cougar isn't the evidence found.

The more we encroach the more sightings occur. They are here, they have always been here, and with any kind of luck at all they'll be here for years to come.

You seen any sign, Copperhead? What about you, Goon? Anything on that side of the mountain?

Hacksaw

[TOW]

yeah one walked about seven feet by my head while i was sleeping in july. atleast i think it was, or it was a very large bobcat but i think it mighta been a mountain lion. it was pretty scary.

mountain lions are predators and we humans are prey. they are stealth fighters as well and they know their place around people along with bobcats as well......what i'm saying here is that no wild cat walked by your head within seven feet while you were asleep.....how would you know anyway, you were asleep, right?

all in your dreams buddy.....................