2010 Appalachian Trail Circle Expedition

[thestin]

My personality type is an introvert. There have been studies done by a branch of the State University of NY that most thru-hikers are introverts. Having said all that, I have also been on retreats where a team concept was employed, and have had a rewarding experience. I'm betting that is exactly what Warren is doing with the pre-hike team-building that goes on before the actual hike.

I'm hoping Warren will chime in here, but I'm also betting that if you asked the participants of his thru-hikes, they will tell you they had a unique life experience and made life-long friendships.

And finally, whether you carry a pack or not, walking the entire trail is an accomplishment that needs no qualification.

[warren doyle]

I have enjoyed the posts on this thread - differing opinions that are thoughtful and civil. Thanks to the WB editorial policy, people can finally post their thoughts/opinions without feeling intimidated. Like I said, the circle expedition isn't for anybody nor does it have to be. Individuals need to form a relationship with the trail that they feel the most comfortable with. I feel it is important that people know the many types/possibilities of trail experiences that they can choose from.

And now to answer two questions:

Lilred post #49 (very insightful post)

Q: I'm curious Warren, the one expedition that didn't have 100% completion, was that because of conflicting personalities or some other reason?

A: It was not about conflicting personalities. The circle was broken at the base of Bromley Mt. in southern Vt. when one of the members felt/thought they could go on no longer - so it was more like a personal psychological barrier to the task.

Shades of Gray post #51

Q: I recently pointed out to someone off-board how many thru-hikes I thought 1980 UConn Expedition members completed before their 1980 hike. I believe the circle atop Katahdin in 1980 may have had far more to do with experience than anything else. What do you think?

A: The 1980 UCONN AT Circle Expedition consisted of 13 hikers and one support van driver.

The breakdown of the 13 hikers prior backpacking/hiking experience before the expedition preparation period began in September 1979 for a mid-May 1980 start at Springer (all hikers were self-selected):

3 people had extensive long distance backpacking/hiking experience
1 person had limited long distance backpacking/hiking experience
9 people were 'newbies'

The 'success' of the circle expeditions (i.e. in terms of completion rate)primarily rests in two areas: the preparation period and leadership/organizational skills.

'Newbies' (before the preparation period) have comprised from 70-90% of the expedition members.

[Pedalsndirt]

Please excuse the "N3wb" question.

Why do experienced hikers try to force their opinions of what a thru-hike is and how it should be done? This, IMO, is an attempt invalidate another persons attempts to bring the love of the AT, unity and friendship to people whom have never put a foot on the trail and help the love for the trail grow to many more people which, will allow the trail to survive whatever may come in the future.

I personally have JUST come to feel a draw to the trail and I gotta tell ya these types of "comments" serve to do nothing but discourage a rookie.

I am NO rookie to forums and websites, having authored a few myself and I know that your going to run into differing opinions and that is what makes this method of communicating great. My only concern is to the "experienced" "vocal" few on this site. Please be mindful of what you say, there are n3wbs about who, can easily misunderstand, get discouraged and drop the whole thing. I know its not your responsibility to "Molly Coddle" someone, but if your looking to discourage people from joining the Love you have found on the AT keep it up, you'll get what you want for certain, along with some undesired consequences.

I'm not looking to "slam" anyone I think everyones comments to a large degree are necessary, even the less than nice ones. They are all valid and no one should be invalidated or censored. All "attempted, assistive" opinions should bevoiced and heard.

Myself, I think it would be an awesome way to prepare me (and any other n3wb) for the trail and learn some of the details of a thru-hike with this type of a trip. I personally would be honored to be with experienced backpackers taking their valuable personal time to teach me the "Love". I havent done day one of backpacking and have only hiked small mile long or so sections of the AT. Once, hopefully, having completed this type of a trip (or at least participate to my fullest abilities) I would feel extra confident to complete the AT on a bona fide old school ("old school" being relative to the individual) thru-hike.

Thats one n3wbs perspective, I mean no harm, just another opinion from someone watching in the background.

To all: Hike long and Hike often.

I am just learning this, you experienced ones are lucky in my book. and my hats off to you all.

[Lyle]

Warren,
I know you indicated in an earlier post that you found the Circle hikes to be the most rewarding, compared to your solo hikes, once you reached Katadin. I guess I'm wondering, what about day to day, in the middle of the hike? Which method of hiking is more fun/rewarding on a day to day basis?

Maybe, with the extensive investment in time and effort you have put into the Circle tours, this is no longer a fair question to ask you. We all know that in many situations, while we are experiencing something we are also dreading/annoyed/discouraged by it, but after we complete it, then we experience the great rewards for persevering. Is this what you find with the Circle tours, that the greatest reward is at the end, when it's over?

[jesse]

Why do experienced hikers try to force their opinions of what a thru-hike is and how it should be done

I have not heard anyone on this thread try to force their opinon on how a person should hike. There is varing opinion on what the term "thru-hike" means. What got this thread going, like all threads that mention Mr. Doyle, is his saying, "this is not slack packing", when it clearly is by today's definintion of ther term.

A person's hike is a lot like their golf game. I do not care (unless there is money on the line) how many rules a person breaks while they are on the course, but if a person claims to shoot par, when in reality they didn't, I will have a lower opinion of that person, and probably not want to associate with them.
Same with hiking. IMO it would be very challenging to slack pack the AT, however, it is not as challenging as carrying a backpack the whole way, and sleeping in the elements most nights.
If a person slackpacks, the AT, and tries to hide, the fact, and portray themselves as a backpacker, well IMO, they are like the golfer mentioned above, I probably would not enjoy sharing a campfire with them.

[Mags]

If a person slackpacks, the AT, and tries to hide, the fact, and portray themselves as a backpacker, well IMO, they are like the golfer mentioned above, I probably would not enjoy sharing a campfire with them.

Man..have you ever tried to get a campfire going on a golf course?

As soon as you have the fire lit, some maniac in a cart tries to run you over. Sigh...

[Alligator]

It seems like both definitions regarding the term slackpacker have been presented, which was somewhat pertinent to Warren's future trip. Whether or not the modern definition of slackpacking or backpacking is harder is best covered in another forum. Please start another thread if there is to be any further discussion on that matter. Thank you.

[Creek Dancer]

If we aren't suppose to discuss anything other than what WD wants to discuss, perhaps this thread should be in the "Straight Forward" category.

[Alligator]

If we aren't suppose to discuss anything other than what WD wants to discuss, perhaps this thread should be in the "Straight Forward" category.

It's in the hooking up forum, which is about trip plans. The suggestion was that if people are interested in a more general discussion, to simply have that discussion in a more appropriate place. Periodically, old trip plans are removed from this forum.

[Pedalsndirt]

Anyone trying to minimize anything I do is an attempt at "forcing an opinion" and I for one don't appreciate it.

Having said that, ima move on. I am looking forward to hiking/backpacking the AT and many others, as soon as I learn how to do it properly and safely. I think this is a good start.

Thanks everyone, your ALL tops in my book.

[Lilred]

It seems like both definitions regarding the term slackpacker have been presented, which was somewhat pertinent to Warren's future trip.

Words do change definition over time. Webster's dictionary is filled with alternate definitions for words. #1 is always the most current and used definition for any word. Slackpacking's most current and used definition is one who hikes the AT without a full pack, as if one is going on a day hike. Ask anyone on the trail, who has done this, what it is called, and they will tell you that they 'slackpacked that section'. So, Warren's group would rightfully be called a slackpack of the AT, not backpacking the AT, by today's AT community. Trail magic is another term that has changed over the years too. If I tell today's hiker that a cooler of drinks left on the side of the trail is not trail magic, they'd think I was nuts.

[emerald]

Lilread, perhaps you should have read Alligator's post in it's entirety before posting. I'm referring especially to the portion you omitted from your quote.

[Pedalsndirt]

Thank you for the explanation and trail history information. I understand more each day.

[rickb]

It's in the hooking up forum, which is about trip plans

So this forum isn't about hooking up?

[Alligator]

So this forum isn't about hooking up?

Funny the talk about changing definitions. It's about making trip plans with other people. Not the more modern definition.

[Alligator]

Words do change definition over time. Webster's dictionary is filled with alternate definitions for words. #1 is always the most current and used definition for any word. Slackpacking's most current and used definition is one who hikes the AT without a full pack, as if one is going on a day hike. Ask anyone on the trail, who has done this, what it is called, and they will tell you that they 'slackpacked that section'. So, Warren's group would rightfully be called a slackpack of the AT, not backpacking the AT, by today's AT community. Trail magic is another term that has changed over the years too. If I tell today's hiker that a cooler of drinks left on the side of the trail is not trail magic, they'd think I was nuts.

And sometimes people use terms in their older context. Warren stated the definition he was using, and his use was supported by both Lone Wolf and Steve the Ferryman. Regardless, this isn't an English Language site. This forum isn't to debate language. It's to connect hikers who wish to hike together. If you have other issues, move them to the appropriate forum. That's the last time I will ask.

[Lilred]

It's in the hooking up forum, which is about trip plans. The suggestion was that if people are interested in a more general discussion, to simply have that discussion in a more appropriate place. Periodically, old trip plans are removed from this forum.

Sorry guys, my bad. I thought I was staying on topic talking about the definition.... didn't even realize what forum I was in.

[MarcnNJ]

In 2006 I slackpacked somewhere around 10 days. First time being around 20miles southbound into Erwin, TN; again leaving Damascus, from the Dutch Haus, the entire state of CT, 3 days in VT, and once in Maine. I remember very well passing Beauty Spot Gap and thinking what a great campsite I was missing out on.

Overall, hiking with a full pack is obviously more physically demanding. At first I loved the freedom of having the weight off my back and legs. I could really fly if I wanted to. And I usually had to since I always got stuck talking to my fellow northbounders who were out there carrying a pack going in the right direction. Id take longer breaks, knowing I could do the miles in good time and always just made it back in time. It was a little nicer walking into Damascus southbound since I didnt have to meet a pick-up van.

As my trip went on, slackpacking became stressful. It was nice to have the weight off in CT and VT, but my legs and feet hurt a lot anyway by that point. Luckily in CT we were able to call from the trail and alter our arrangements with our pick-up person. Knowing we had to get to a certain point at a certain time began to feel a lot like work. Travelling with that freedom on your back to be able to set up just about anywhere and call it home for the night was dearly missed.

Did we make up good miles slackpacking? Yeah for the most part.
Was is easier? Physically it was, but it was mentally stressful knowing where you had to get to and when you had to get there. I didnt enjoy 75% of my slackpacking experience and probably won't do it again.

[Heater]

And sometimes people use terms in their older context. Warren stated the definition he was using, and his use was supported by both Lone Wolf and Steve the Ferryman. Regardless, this isn't an English Language site. This forum isn't to debate language. It's to connect hikers who wish to hike together. If you have other issues, move them to the appropriate forum. That's the last time I will ask.

This thread has 76 posts in it. How are people reading and responding to posts on the first or second page page supposed to know about this post by you? It was left unmoderated too long to start now IMO. You'd have to go back and edit warren's and lone wolf and jacks and ferrymans comments that you let slide ealier to be fair about it.

[Yahtzee]

But hell, do you read Lil Red's entries? I doubt it. If you did, you would know she is a positive addition to these boards.

And I thought with LW on the Long Trail, some positive hiker talk could occur.