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  1. #21
    Formerly thickredhair Gaiter's Avatar
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    my dog is only 50lbs, she hiked for a month w/ me last summer before i sent her home, half-way through that month i switched her to puppy food, it has higher calories than regular dog food. so for your dog look for a puppy or working dog formula (hunting stores a resource for a working dog formula)

    also i supplemented her food w/ zuke's power bones (at 50lbs she got 3-4 a day), which are 'endurance treats' www.zukes.com

    this is the best article (in my opinion) for hiking w/ dog, it talks about food http://www.appalachiantrail.org/atf/cf/{D25B4747-42A3-4302-8D48-EF35C0B0D9F1}/fido.pdf
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  2. #22
    Frieden and Ed - World Explorer Team frieden's Avatar
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    Ed is a 71 lb. Belgian Malinois. He carries 5-7 lbs. in his OutwardBound pack. I feed Ed ProPlan at home, but he gets cat food on the trail - vet approved, mountain SAR tested. It is much lighter than dog food, and higher in nutrition. In towns? Steak stew, treats, etc. Plan plenty of days off (tent to keep costs down), and include some play times, which is good for both of you. Carry a toy that is lightweight, good for fetch, tug games, and goes right into the clothes washer.

  3. #23
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    Not a dog person now, but was in the past. I fed my dog puppy chow with oil added when hiking on the advice of a vet who was also a long-distance hiker himself. My dog was fairly small (35 to 40#), but his dog was large enough for a small child to ride.

  4. #24
    Frieden and Ed - World Explorer Team frieden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    Not a dog person now, but was in the past. I fed my dog puppy chow with oil added when hiking on the advice of a vet who was also a long-distance hiker himself. My dog was fairly small (35 to 40#), but his dog was large enough for a small child to ride.
    Did you find the oil added too much weight?

  5. #25
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    I've backpacked about 1/4 of the trail with my yellow lab. He's now too old to backpack with me, but the days spent on the trail with him were the best. I fed him three times a day - to ensure he kept his energy up and didn't deplete and burn out late in the day.

    I fed him a dry formula which was specifically designed for working dogs. Had a lot of calories per serving so I didn't have to give him huge servings. I got the name of the food from my vet.

    Try doing an internet search on foods for working dogs
    Peace Be With You

  6. #26
    Registered User LIhikers's Avatar
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    My wife and I sometimes hike with our 80 pound shephard. At home he is fed a dry food that gets water added a little before meal time, which is 3 times a day. When we hike it's the same routine but I think my wife switches to a dry puppy food of the same brand.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark swarbrick View Post
    "Black Lab/ Irish setter"
    Interesting combination. My grandfather first had an Irish Setter, followed by a Black Lab. Spent lots of time hunting and fishing with both. Dogs and people are both pretty amazing for their endurance and stamina compared to most animals, and have thousands of years of shared evolution together. Of course some breeds are better than others for long distance hikes, but some people are better than others also. Dogs metabolism is interesting to study. Similar to ours, but different. Greater lactic acid tolerance, and of course they don't consume carbs like we do. I would imagine they are much better at converting protiens into energy. I wouldn't neccessarily expect a hiking dog to eat like a dog sled team though. Their fat burning metabolism might be similar to ours, but I'm not sure about that either. I would imagine their digestion of fats is very different, as their digestive tract is considerably shorter. I would find out how much fat they can consume while hiking, and what sort of fats are digestible, and how they should be mixed with their food. That might help reduce the payload. The other thing to watch out for might be hip problems, which Black Labs are prone to.

  8. #28
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    Here is an article on dietary needs for working dogs.

    http://www.mushwithpride.org/FeedingWatering.htm

    Main thing seems to be to switch to dog food with more energy per pound, not just to save weight but also so that the dog can digest what it needs if its burning more calories. There is a section on adding fat that is interesting. They would likely need some period of adjustment. Of course unless you are one of those super-endurance atheletes your dog won't be working like a sled dog. This might mean similar food, but less of it. As with people, I would look at increasing the dietary fat if the animal was getting too lean looking. Also, as with people, perhaps even more so, water is much more critical than food.

  9. #29
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    Hi, mark you are getting some pretty wide advice here, so I thought I would drop some pointers. I have a 95lb ridgeback mix service dog who is fed a homemade diet, pretty close to what I eat and he consumes more calories then I do at 130lbs.

    The first and most important thing is to determine the caloric requirements. If you go to http://www.mycockerspaniel.com/mer.htm and type in the info you can get a pretty good idea. Afterwards you will need to assess, is the dog loosing or gaining weight. You said you have a 60lb dog so the MER would be in the range of 1180-1260cals. Remember MER is only a base amount to fuel the body with no illness, extreme weather or activity. You sound like you are talking about a moderate work amount so you multiply MER by 1.5 for a total of 1770-1890cal. For extremes in weather you need to times 1.25-2 depending on the weather conditions. Assume moderate weather extremes and moderate work load and you must multiply MER by 2 for a total of 2360-2520cal. Do you understand now how to determine the dogs caloric needs?

    The next factor is a ratio of fats to carbs to protein. Since my dog has moderate working life normally I like to maintain a higher protein and fat levels. I usually feed a ratio of 60/15-20/20-25 respectively. You would be wise to stick with those ratios. Dogs must have higher fats then humans.

    Then next important factor is minerals and vitamins. You will have a near impossible time providing this in proper amounts on the trail. Go to your vet a request doggy vitamins, otherwise health issues will result.

    I use a mix of nuts, peanuts and seeds as treats and you can save quite a bit of weight by feeding this. Timber's daily norm is 2oz peanuts, 1oz nuts, 1oz seeds but that can go up in ratio to his caloric needs. I toss 1-2oz of freeze dried liver in also.

    So the question becomes what to feed. If you use the trailmix above you can discount about 650cal from the diet. You could feed a mix of whole grains, freeze dried fruit, veggies and meat. If you grab some completely defatted peanut or other nut flours you can suppliment with that. Fresh raw fish is great and you can just gut and toss them a small one a day. Don't debone or remove head the can and should eat it. If you cook it you must debone and remove head though.

    Here is what I do for my guy when hiking. I feed 2-4oz peanuts, 1-2oz nuts, 1-2oz seed and 1-2oz lambs liver as snacks. I have the same minus the liver and less peanuts. I catch fish for both our dinners, cut a fillet off for me and toss him the rest. I bring grains that I cook, I like teff and other smaller grains because it take only a few minutes to cook. I freeze dry some fruit and mix it in the trailmix. I usually have at least two pieces of fruit per day. I pick wild greens were I can and if not the I rely on my vitamins. I add about 2oz dried yeast. Whenever we are near town I buy some yogurt and feed that also. Sometimes he gets other meats and raw bones when near town. He also gets 1 brazil nut a day.

    So hope that helps, my only warning in this is so healthy for your dog and you that you might have a problem feeding regular dog food anymore. Whole food you are looking at about 3% of body weight a day but that can be mitigated by freeze drying. Off-hand my guy carries about 6-12oz of food per day of his trail diet. My only other thought is make him carry his own weight. I can help you work out a specific diet if you want but I need more info before I can.

    Good luck on the trail and remember the vitamins if you can't assure proper nutrition.

  10. #30
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    Default Need Help with large dog when backpacking

    Winter hiked the AT on the "spoil me rotten" diet. I started the AT having expensive dog food mailed to us but the PO sucks. I found that I had to rely on what was available along the trail for resupply. If dry puppy food was available she got that. If that wasn't available I read the lable and hoped it was good enough. Once all I could get was canned dog food....heavy. Winter carried her dry food. I tried to re-supply every three days which was easier on both of us. I carried and shared tuna and sardines in oil, beef jerky, cold cuts (temps allowing), gorp,etc. Both Winter and I lost weight but not too much. Winter also got special consideration in town stops. Her favorite was when I'd get one of those pre-cooked cheap chickens. She also liked pizza with meat and cheese. It was all good. If it wasn't good enough she would have told me. Incidently, Winter is 11 years old and is still spoiled.

  11. #31
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    Just remeber for his pack, to break him slow and good! Make sure he has no rub marks, his pack gets washed so it will fit him like a well worn pair of jeans. It takes a long time to break a pack in for a dog. He wont tell you when he is hurting and by the time you can tell, its too late, your dog will need recovery time.

    - Rick

  12. #32

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    So far, I'm with Weasel's post above.


    Also, have you considered leaving him at home vs. the hassle of
    a. his health
    b. his weight
    c. his carrying extra weight to carry enough food
    d. not being able to sleep in shelters with your dog
    e. resupply not only for yourself but for him?

    I love dogs in general, and especially my dog ( who loves to hike!), but I will not hike with him again long distance (30 days or more) It was rough on him, and he's an athlete.
    ad astra per aspera

  13. #33

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    Wanted to chime in, but most good advise has given. I have a 45# German Shorthair Pointer. We go weekend hiking 3-4 times a year in Pisgah and on the AT in NC area. I use a Outward Bound pack for him which is well padded and allows you to connect his leash for quick release. Very helpful when you come accross other hikers or wildlife. I don't like to change his diet too much, just increase it a few days before and during. I feed him either Nutro (active dog one) or Purina 1. I read the ingredients and try to avoid Chicken byproducts and too many fillers. I like seeing meat as the first ingredient instead of Corn.

    My biggest problem when hiking is monitoring the padding on Patton's feet. Because I use a quick release leash and allow him to scout for me, he tends to run 2-3 times more than I do. He never walks. As such he burns calories much faster. I provide him with treats (salmon or zukes power bones) at regular intervals. Also, he gets whatever I don't eat. Probably not the best to give him scraps, but better than wasting it and he doesn't complain.

    If you thinking of getting a dog to hike with, I recommend a GSP. In discussions with my Vet, these dogs are bred for long distance. They require about 10 miles of excersize a day mininum. They are a very active dog that were originally bred to run along side horses on fox hunts. They can go forever, they are very loyal, and great family dogs. I wouldn't get any other breed.

    Matt

  14. #34

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    Eukananuba would be a good option, as would Science Diet's Performance formula. Both are designed for working dogs. The bloat issue is a real concern, since eating too much too quickly, followed by drinking a large amount of water very quickly, could be pretty common temptations for a dog on a long hike.

  15. #35
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    Default Need Help with large dog when backpacking

    Quote Originally Posted by Smile View Post
    So far, I'm with Weasel's post above.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smile View Post


    Also, have you considered leaving him at home vs. the hassle of
    a. his health
    b. his weight
    c. his carrying extra weight to carry enough food
    d. not being able to sleep in shelters with your dog
    e. resupply not only for yourself but for him?

    I love dogs in general, and especially my dog ( who loves to hike!), but I will not hike with him again long distance (30 days or more) It was rough on him, and he's an athlete.


    Yes, those are all good points. A + B. I discussed my concerns about Winter's health and weight with a vet after hiking the LT with Winter in "99" with intentions of hiking the AT. I was told not get nervous about weight loss. That would not be how I would recognize a problem since both Winter and I would lose weight. I was told to watch for a change in behavior. C. I just never had Winter carry extra weight...that's what I was for. D. I avoid shelters with or without my dog. E. The only real re-supply problem was when I was trying to get special food for Winter via the post office.
    The last point is absolutely important!!!!!! If I were king, I would have everyone who wants to bring his or her dog on the AT to do a long test hike to validate if it will work. The proof is in the putting. It isn't enough for the dog to be physically capable of hiking 15 miles a day over a variety of terrains. The dog has to have the intelligence to deal with many types of new situations. It has to have an even temperament. It can't be a game dog. Your dog MUST be trained for the trail. I have had many dogs over the years of different breeds but Winter was the only one that I would consider bringing on the AT. She made it all look easy. I'd like to take credit for it but it really was Winter. I doubt that I will ever have another dog like her. After all, how often do you find a 5-week-old white German Shepard in the middle of the road?

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by superman View Post
    If I were king, I would have everyone who wants to bring his or her dog on the AT to do a long test hike to validate if it will work.
    Yeah! Then I nominate you for King

    Your dog MUST be trained for the trail. .... After all, how often do you find a 5-week-old white German Shepard in the middle of the road?
    No offense, but a five week old dog would not be considered IMHO a seasoned/trained hiking dog.

    As far as the dog carrying his own weight, It never crossed my mind that a human would carry the dog's food, but that the dog would have to pull his own weight with a pack. This is just UL thinking on my part!

    I hope this all works out for you and your dog and that you have a great hike

    Peace,SMile
    ad astra per aspera

  17. #37
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    Default Need Help with large dog when backpacking

    Quote Originally Posted by Smile View Post
    Yeah! Then I nominate you for King



    No offense, but a five week old dog would not be considered IMHO a seasoned/trained hiking dog.

    As far as the dog carrying his own weight, It never crossed my mind that a human would carry the dog's food, but that the dog would have to pull his own weight with a pack. This is just UL thinking on my part!

    I hope this all works out for you and your dog and that you have a great hike

    Peace,SMile
    Winter was 5 weeks old when I found her in the middle of the road. She is 11 years old now.
    Some people try to use their dog as a pack animal. That's not a good thing for the dog. Winter seldom had to carry more than 3 days food at a time. When we resupplied and I had to buy a larger bag I carried the differnce or some part of the difference of the amount over her normal 3 day load. Winter is a retired hiking dog now.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by superman View Post
    Winter was 5 weeks old when I found her in the middle of the road. She is 11 years old now.....Winter is a retired hiking dog now.
    Now that makes more sense
    ad astra per aspera

  19. #39
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    I think you would be surprised what kind of pack animal a dog could be if trained right. I have had two service dogs now and never owned a car. Whenever I grocery shop my dog and I wear our packs and carry the food home. My pit could easily carry whatever would fit in her pack without a second thought. I even was able to tie extra things to the pack to a limit of about 40lbs and she weighed about 80lbs. She didn't even flinch with those weights. My current guy has a imposed limit (by me) of 50lbs. Admittedly that was only for 15-20 minutes. Plus both of my dogs were able to pull a cart with me in it for a weight of 350lbs with out any difficulty.

    All you have to do is follow some basic rules.
    1) Never start weight training until they are fully matured.
    2) Never backpack more then 50% of body weight.
    3) Always use a pack that is properly balanced and rest over the shoulders and never the lower back.
    4) Condition slowly and start small.
    5) Use a proper cart with long enough traces and brake bars.
    6) Respect your dog and don't ask them to do anything that is beyond them.

    Be patient and teach them to love it and they will go forever.

  20. #40
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    Purina has a special food - ProPlan, which comes in a large breed formula. Although you're probably not going to take canned food along on your trip, you might want to check into their canned food for home - my dogs love it. I think the best advice so far is check with a vet who is very familar with the real rigors of trail hiking.

    My Shepherd-Husky mix actually decreases his food intake on long hikes. Not sure if it was because we didn't bring the canned food with us, only the dried kibble, and he was mad, or if there was something else. He got a lot of my peanut butter and bagels because it was driving me crazy that he wouldn't eat. Extra beef jerky (as a previous poster suggested) might be a good alternative to canned.

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