Need Help with large dog when backpacking

[Wise Old Owl]

Wow, I read a lot of threads and there is some good information on this part of the site. If you do not have a dog please do not post here. I am in the process of training a large Black Lab/ Irish setter for the trail. I have found several expensive sites for freeze dried dog food. Canned & pouch won't work as this is a 60 pound dog that consumes 1 to 1.5 pounds of food in a day. One can can be 1.5 pounds of meat and just a dinner. On a test he consumed a common Freeze dried stew for dinner. I am looking for good feeding tips that will work for the trail. I have the snack & treat part down cold. How do you folks do it? Please no misinformation, if you have a 15 pound dog as I have done in the past that wont help-will it. This is a dog that stands taller than my waist at 30 inches. Could be a great trail dog as the training continues. How do I feed him, without providing rattlesnake!

[mudhead]

Wow, I read a lot of threads and there is some good information on this part of the site. If you do not have a dog please do not post here. I am in the process of training a large Black Lab/ Irish setter for the trail. I have found several expensive sites for freeze dried dog food. Canned & pouch won't work as this is a 60 pound dog that consumes 1 to 1.5 pounds of food in a day. One can can be 1.5 pounds of meat and just a dinner. On a test he consumed a common Freeze dried stew for dinner. I am looking for good feeding tips that will work for the trail. I have the snack & treat part down cold. How do you folks do it? Please no misinformation, if you have a 15 pound dog as I have done in the past that wont help-will it. This is a dog that stands taller than my waist at 30 inches. Could be a great trail dog as the training continues. How do I feed him, without providing rattlesnake!

Ask your vet. What parts are you headed for?

[Marta]

There was a guy going SOBO last year with a husky. The dog got terribly thin before he was switched to a high-calorie food for working dogs. That stopped his weight loss. I don't know the brand, or any other details.

Marta/Five-Leaf

[Fiddler]

I have a Boxer. His weight varies from 80 to 85 pounds. And he was the runt of the litter. I have not took him for any long hikes, nothing over 10-12 miles. As mudhead said, the best place to start is the vet. Tell him your full plans for the dog. You want to be sure the dog is physically up to this. The vet can advise as to the best food for maintaining health and energy. Get the dog a pack that fits properly and begin training him to carry his own food, the vet can advise as to the proper weight for him to carry. Walk him as often as possible, longer walks if possible, for he must become accustomed to going a long distance every day the same as you.

[the goat]

i used puppy food for my dog, he's a/b 80-85 lbs. choc lab mixed w/ something massive. i also carried a plastic bottle of canola oil to pour over the food to add calories & fat.

i agree that a properly fit dog pack is key. imo, the mountainsmith dog packs suck.

[Rouen]

you could try the Eagle Pack "power formula", it's higher in calories.
I'm one of those people who owns 30lb mutts.
depending on how long the trip is going to be, you could try dehydrating some meat for added calories.

[taildragger]

Talk to your vet. I know that my black lab is ~90lbs when he is in shape for hunting season and that we change his diet during the fall and winter since he was at one point hunting as the only dog 3 days out of the week.

Also, one thing to think about if you haven't done so. Keep him outside a bunch, let his pads get tough and the ground will wear down any longer nails that he might have gotten if he lives indoors a lot.

One other thing, this might be an excuse to eat some bacon on the trails and pour the grease over his food, you'll both be happy and full at breakfast.

[general]

i hike with a 1/2 pit 1/2 red bone hound. he's about 100lbs, and fairly large. he'll go through about 2 quart sandwitch bags a day of science diet puppy food when hiking. he's never lost any weight. big dog, big dog pack. i like the ruff wear packs myself

[The Weasel]

Wow, I read a lot of threads and there is some good information on this part of the site. If you do not have a dog please do not post here. I am in the process of training a large Black Lab/ Irish setter for the trail. I have found several expensive sites for freeze dried dog food. Canned & pouch won't work as this is a 60 pound dog that consumes 1 to 1.5 pounds of food in a day. One can can be 1.5 pounds of meat and just a dinner. On a test he consumed a common Freeze dried stew for dinner. I am looking for good feeding tips that will work for the trail. I have the snack & treat part down cold. How do you folks do it? Please no misinformation, if you have a 15 pound dog as I have done in the past that wont help-will it. This is a dog that stands taller than my waist at 30 inches. Could be a great trail dog as the training continues. How do I feed him, without providing rattlesnake!

Mark:

I'm not trying to be anti-dog here (and yes, I have my own Lab mix who backpacks short (2-3 day) trips with me. But you raise a critical problem if you're taking a dog:

If your dog is 80#, you can reasonably assume that he has 1/2 the caloric need of a 160# man (yeah, basal metabolisms are different for dogs, who have a higher body temp, but let's try to be simple). For a 6'0" (fairly tall, as with your dog) man at that weight, age 30 (yeah, 5 dog years) BMR is 1500 calories or so. So let's call that 750 for Barko. That's just to maintain weight, assuming no exercise at all.

Second, to haul mass (yeah, meant the pun) for such a man, it takes about 500 calories per mile. If you're walking 15 miles a day, that's 7500 (honest, folks...while rough, this is fairly accurate, and for a rule-of-thumb calculation, supported by a couple of outdoor doctors and nutritionists I've worked with) calories. You may notice that backpackers, after several days, develope fixations on cheesburgers and AYCE. There is a metabolic reason for that, and it's "calorie deprivation." So Barko needs 1/2 of yours, or another 3750, or 4,250 per day.. But almost no one eats 9000 calories a day while doing long distance backpacking, since that's a huge food volume, So let's say it's 4,500 for you, and you (and Dog Breath) will make it up in the towns.

But I don't think it's safe, for a smaller (than you/me) animal (smaller than me is some elephants, sorry) to cut intake in half. So you're gonna want to keep Doggy around 3000 calories.

Now dry protein and carbs both are 4 cals per gram, or about 100per ounce. So Barko needs about 30 ounces of food daily, or almost 2 pounds. For 10 days between resupply, that's a lot. Less is risky, and Barky can't really say, "Hey, Dude. Starving down here. Bad. Weak." He just wags and keeps on keeping on.

And gorging - doggy or human - in towns doesn't really restore lost muscle. It's a rough thing. And weight loss, when fat is gone, goes to muscle loss, particularly the internal organs. As in heart muscle. This is, as Jack Sparrow says, "Not good." It can lead to premature death in Barko. Not right away. But worth thinking about.

He's a great companion, I'm sure. But make pretty damn sure you're not gonna wreck him up. And before you get your vet to buy into the trip, make sure you see a vet who has some idea of what serious long backpacking is like, not from a book. There are good ones in trail towns who can tell you what they think. Listen to them.

Good luck.

The Weasel

[RiverWarriorPJ]

My pUp is 80lbs & carries about 12lbs in his pack w/no problem....His pack is fairly small, so 12lbs is the max.....if i ever get a job & buy him a new, bigger pack, i'm sure he could do 20lbs plus just as easily....We now have an OutWard Bound pack....
Go 4 it Mark & BlackIrish...

[JDCool1]

Try Solid Gold brand. It is highly nutritionally adept. Does not require as much as other more popular brands may, making it a lighter load, is natural and will provide plenty of energy. Checkout their site at www.solidgoldhealth.com.

[shelterbuilder]

...I am in the process of training a large Black Lab/ Irish setter for the trail. I have found several expensive sites for freeze dried dog food... On a test he consumed a common Freeze dried stew for dinner. I am looking for good feeding tips that will work for the trail. I have the snack & treat part down cold. How do you folks do it? Could be a great trail dog as the training continues. How do I feed him, without providing rattlesnake!

I can only tell you what I've done in the past. First, if you're not already, feed a high quality dry dog food - quality does not cost, it pays! Iams, Eukanuba, National (what I feed now) - just make sure that the dog likes it! Second, since I assume that the dog will be carrying all or part of his rations - make sure that the pack fits and is not rubbing anywhere. Third, make sure that the dog's pads are toughened up before you start a long trek. Dogs with injured pads and/or chafe sores are going to burn more calories trying to repair the injury, and may not be as willing to keep up with you and your mileage. And make sure that the dog is adequately hydrated!
That having been said, you will have to increase the dog's caloric intake significantly in order for the dog to maintain muscle mass AND keep up the miles day after day. I have 5 Siberian Huskies, and during the racing season, we feed almost half again as much as during the off season, and by the end of the season, we can still see weight loss on some of them.
Try feeding 1/4 to 1/3 of the daily ration in the morning - well before breaking camp - another 1/4 to 1/3 at lunchtime, and the rest in the evening. Feeding too much at one time can cause "bloat", also known as Gastric Torsion - this is a true medical emergency that you will NOT be able to handle on the trail.
I'm intrigued by the idea of adding cannola oil to the dog's feed, since dogs have a metabolism that runs well on fats. Check with a vet, but this may work very well. An old, famous musher once told me - humorously - that fat and sawdust (fiber) was a wonderful diet for working dogs!!!
Good Luck...and keep the dog on a leash, for his safety and out of consideration for the human hikers!

[Marta]

Re: adding oil to a dog's rations... Our vet told us to do that for our St. Bernard way back in the late 60s. We had a grease pot in the kitchen and put all meat drippings in it, which went right on top of the dog's food. The vet said if we needed more oil, to pour corn oil on his food.

We also had a couple of Kerry Blue Terriers. The show breeder we bought one of them from fed his dogs quite a lot of cod liver oil. The dogs had wonderfully shiny coats...and unbelievable breath.

Marta/Five-Leaf

[The Weasel]

Talk to your vet. I know that my black lab is ~90lbs when he is in shape for hunting season and that we change his diet during the fall and winter since he was at one point hunting as the only dog 3 days out of the week.

Also, one thing to think about if you haven't done so. Keep him outside a bunch, let his pads get tough and the ground will wear down any longer nails that he might have gotten if he lives indoors a lot.

One other thing, this might be an excuse to eat some bacon on the trails and pour the grease over his food, you'll both be happy and full at breakfast.

Yes, bring lots of heavy fatty food to add to the 20# you're making an 80# dog carry. This makes sense, especially with a beast of burden that can't say, "hey, folks. Can't we lighten this up a little?"

The Weasel

[superman]

Wow, I read a lot of threads and there is some good information on this part of the site. If you do not have a dog please do not post here. I am in the process of training a large Black Lab/ Irish setter for the trail. I have found several expensive sites for freeze dried dog food. Canned & pouch won't work as this is a 60 pound dog that consumes 1 to 1.5 pounds of food in a day. One can can be 1.5 pounds of meat and just a dinner. On a test he consumed a common Freeze dried stew for dinner. I am looking for good feeding tips that will work for the trail. I have the snack & treat part down cold. How do you folks do it? Please no misinformation, if you have a 15 pound dog as I have done in the past that wont help-will it. This is a dog that stands taller than my waist at 30 inches. Could be a great trail dog as the training continues. How do I feed him, without providing rattlesnake!

Some dogs lose their apetite... as do some people. The problem is that the dog is using too many calories to allow it to continue. I always split my tuna, sardines etc with Winter to encourage her to to eat. That may not be the best way of dealing with it but it worked for us. When we did town stops Winter liked to watch Animal Planet. If a cat was on TV she would only look at the TV sideways. While I did the laundry and shopping she caught up on her sleep and enjoyed the air conditioning.
I tried to use the post office for Winters expensive food but that didn't work. I found that Winter would eat any of the foods I bought for her so long as I got her interested with a treat. The food issue stopped being an issue when I figured out what she needed which was pretty early in our hike.
Yes, she's still spoiled.

[RiverWarriorPJ]

.. feed a high quality dry dog food - quality does not cost, it pays! Iams, Eukanuba, National (what I feed now)
Try feeding 1/4 to 1/3 of the daily ration in the morning - well before breaking camp - another 1/4 to 1/3 at lunchtime, and the rest in the evening. Feeding too much at one time can cause "bloat", also known as Gastric Torsion - this is a true medical emergency that you will NOT be able to handle on the trail.

High quality food is a must to lighten the load.."trash in..trash out"
I feed 1/4 in the morn & 3/4's in the eve w/just a small treat @ lunch....I don't feed too much in the AM since dogs, like their ancestors prefer to nap, not hike after a hardy meal..
Good TiPs David..

[Nightwalker]

I use Purina One, an extremely high-quality food that is found at most all grocery stores. She eats around half of what she ate of the prior brand. Dry dog food can also be dehydrated at low heat, reducing the weight even more, though this is near impossible for an entire thru hike.

Try not to listen too loudly to folks that haven't taken a dog on multiple long hikes. My dog is a better hiker than I am, can do more miles, and doesn't want to come home at the end of a trip. She's obviously been terribly abused!!!

[RiverWarriorPJ]

Dittos on the "Purina One"

[Uncle Silly]

Ditto on the puppy food --it's usually a higher caloric content and includes milk fat. My pup is 65# or thereabouts, packed her own food, and had a great time on the trail. Her resupply was a 9# bag of puppy chow (whatever brand was available; I probably used Purina most, but can't recall exactly) and 4-6 of the foil packs of wet food (usually Iams or Pedigree, whatever I could find at the time). Her dinner was a quart-size ziplock of dry food (approximately) topped with a foil pack.

I had good results with the Kelty Chuckwagon pack. The pack we started with (Mountain Gear? Granite Gear? I'm not sure now) sucked.

[CherrypieScout]

I hiked with a large adult Border Collie, My vet told me to feed her puppy food - higher calories for the weight.
I also feed her beef jerky - the people kind. It was cheaper and more light weight than doggy jerky. Seh would share my pasta at night.