baltimore jack vs. bill bryson

[max patch]

By the way, Jensine is a very nice lady. But her chili really was overhyped. But that is heresy to say, so I never said it.

RSC ain't exactly the Ritz Carlton. I thot the chili was pretty darn good for a campground in the middle of the woods 15 miles or so from the nearest town. And the day I hiked in during a 20 degree day in a rapidly increasing snowstorm, that bowl of chili was one of the best meals I've ever had, all things considered.

[Tin Man]

RSC ain't exactly the Ritz Carlton. I thot the chili was pretty darn good for a campground in the middle of the woods 15 miles or so from the nearest town. And the day I hiked in during a 20 degree day in a rapidly increasing snowstorm, that bowl of chili was one of the best meals I've ever had, all things considered.

Some critics are critical regardless of the situation. Some are critical regardless of the cause. Some are just critical. Pass the chili.

[The Weasel]

Speaking from the heart of insular and povincial, no doubt.

The Weasel just moaned, "Keep them away!!! Please!!! I can't be eaten again!!! What do they think I am???? Chili???" When he is coherent again, we will try to let you know. It is difficult telling, sometimes, so be patient.

The Weasel Clan

[rafe]

Terrapin, search for Bryson and you will find several forums to entertain you. The Bryson story needs a rest.

Not to worry, Tin Man. I'm likely to be civil as long as I keep certain individuals on "ignore." I'm hardly the only one "driving" this thread.

Again, I'm seriously puzzled at the reaction to this book, and its author, on WB and on at least one other AT-related forum that I've been on. I'm quite aware of (and mystified by) the passions involved.

[weary]

Not the arbiter, but Jack's spot on, nevertheless.

While Bryson does say that he he didn't walk the Trail's entire length (though some would say he exagerates even those miles he does lay claim to), he most certainly presents his exeprience and story as capturing the essense of the AT.

Yea, right.

If Weary said he hiked the AT, I'd agree in a heart beat-- even if his swollen toe caused him to skip a few blazes.

But Bryson? You have got to be kidding. That would me like me saying I went to Harvard.

Even though it was just for Christmas Revels a time or two.

Okay, for the record, I am not a thru hiker. When I started from Amicalola State Park on April 13, 14 years ago, I didn't really expect to do a "thru" hike. I just wanted to explore some of the Appalachian trails I'd never experienced, being a northerner.

One thing lead to another and soon I was heading to Katahdin, somewhat belatedly. It was well into July by the time I reached Harpers Ferry.

I have to admit that after six months and three days when I reached Katahdin it certainly felt like a thru hike. But when I told Wingfoot, he was appalled that anyone who had skipped Connecticut and Massachusetts, and a few spots elsewhere, could possibly think of themselves as a thru hiker.

I totally agree with Dan. It's an appalling assumption, even for me. But in my weaker moments, my mind still persists in thinking it was a lot of fun, a great adventure that few folks do -- and even in truly weak moments -- I think that maybe I've done a bit more of the trail than many who claim that illustrious status.

It's amazing the tricks the human mind can play. don't you think?

Weary

[Tin Man]

Again, I'm seriously puzzled at the reaction to this book, and its author, on WB and on at least one other AT-related forum that I've been on. I'm quite aware of (and mystified by) the passions involved.

Hmm, Bryson grabs the most attention ever about the AT, yet he doesn't quite get it right. In fact, he gets a lot of it wrong, criticizes the people he meets along the way, then quits. Nope, no passionate AT'ers should ever touch that.

[Lone Wolf]

it's a good book. you're jealous is all

[The Old Fhart]

Jack-“I suggest you re-read the last two pages.”

Great idea, let’s see exactly what Bryson said. Also where Bryson is being held to an absolute high level of accuracy, his critics should expect the same.

“I had done 870 miles, considerably less than half the AT. All that effort and sweat and disgusting grubbiness, all those endless plodding days, the nights on hard ground-all that added up to 39.5 percent of the trail. Goodness knows how anyone ever completes the whole thing. I am filled with admiration and incredulity for those who see it through. But hey and excuse me, 870 miles is still a lot of miles-from New York to Chicago, indeed somewhat beyond. If I had hiked that against almost any other measure, we would all be feeling pretty proud of me now.”

“We didn’t walk 2,200 miles, it’s true, but here’s the thing, we tried. So Katz was right after all, and I don’t care what anyone says. We hiked the Appalachian Trail.”

“I have regrets, of course. I regret that I didn’t do Katahdin……”

So when Jack says: “He said quite plainly that while he didn't walk every mile, well, he doesn't care, because, as he put it, "I hiked the Appalachina Trail."”, That has 2 factual errors. First Bryson doesn’t say anything like “while he didn't walk every mile, well, he doesn't care”, what he says is that “I don’t care what anyone says”, which is something entirely different, kinda like HYOH, get it? Also he didn’t say "I hiked the Appalachina Trail", which being enclosed in quote marks would lead you to believe is an actual quote from Bryson, but it isn’t, it is a rather poor paraphrase that distorts the original meaning. What he said was “We hiked the Appalachian Trail”(not Appalachina, which I believe must be in China! ) He clearly also expressed some regrets about his hike (I regret that I didn’t do Katahdin…), and he probably has more as well.


As to the remark about the FACT that they “hiked the Appalachian Trail”, others have pointed out the obvious silliness of trying to show that Bryson claimed to have hiked the ENTIRE© Appalachian Trail when in the last 2 pages of the book he goes into great detail about the exact number of miles he calculated he actually hiked. So when Jack says:

Jack- “Um, no he didn't, and neither did anyone else who skipped chunks.
What part of this is so difficult for you to comprehend? You either hiked the Trail in its entirety, or you elected not to. Nothing wrong if you elected to do the latter, except of course if you insist on convincing yourself and others that you did the former.”

Anyone with rudimentary reading comprehension skills knows exactly what Bryson meant and it isn’t that he hiked the ENTIRE© Appalachian Trail. To say the least, it is disingenuous to say you have “read” the AWITW, found 258 factual errors(or whatever) in the book and make that fallacious claim. That is just plain wrong and shows an obvious agenda.

Two final points: 1st the cover photo on the British and Canadian version of the book has a black bear and a moose, not the photo by well-known nature photographer Art Wolfe of a grizzly bear. The editors in NY may not be that knowledgeable about bears, and only know Smoky the Bear.

2nd the fact that Bryson made money from hiking the trail (in the interest of full disclosure, I have as well, although not as much as Bryson) has nothing to do with the worth of his writings. Yes it would be nice if he gave something back to the trail but that can be said for thousands who have hiked the trail and done nothing for it afterwards, them’s the breaks.

So despite the fact that AWITW is a more heavily discussed book than the Bible , it is just an entertaining book, nothing more, nothing less, take it for what it’s worth (or what you think it’s worth) and move on.

[ed bell]

I just want to know how the hell anybody can offer a critique of a bowl of chili that costs less than 3 or so bucks AND have others take great offense at the critical evaluation of that cheap bowl of chili. Petty B.S. As far as Bryson goes, I read and enjoyed the book. Having said that, he has shown to be an opportunist with his subject matter. If he really has no love of backpacking or the AT, than I feel free to decide that he made a lot money off of the AT in an underhanded fashon. Oh well, c'est la vie.

[Tin Man]

After all the controversy on the last Bryson thread, I read the book a second time. I thought it was a good book (or novel) the first time I read it and I still think it is a good book, but it doesn't quite do justice to the trail or the people he met along the way. Instead, we have the kangaroo court and the court jesters here to decide what is right and wrong with the book.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

....the hyenas all over me. [OH MY GOD!!!! HERE THEY COME!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!]

CHOMP.

Arg... copywrite infringement

[weary]

Great idea, let’s see exactly what Bryson said. Also where Bryson is being held to an absolute high level of accuracy, his critics should expect the same.




So when Jack says: “He said quite plainly that while he didn't walk every mile, well, he doesn't care, because, as he put it, "I hiked the Appalachina Trail."”, That has 2 factual errors. First Bryson doesn’t say anything like “while he didn't walk every mile, well, he doesn't care”, what he says is that “I don’t care what anyone says”, which is something entirely different, kinda like HYOH, get it? Also he didn’t say "I hiked the Appalachina Trail", which being enclosed in quote marks would lead you to believe is an actual quote from Bryson, but it isn’t, it is a rather poor paraphrase that distorts the original meaning. What he said was “We hiked the Appalachian Trail”(not Appalachina, which I believe must be in China! ) He clearly also expressed some regrets about his hike (I regret that I didn’t do Katahdin…), and he probably has more as well.


As to the remark about the FACT that they “hiked the Appalachian Trail”, others have pointed out the obvious silliness of trying to show that Bryson claimed to have hiked the ENTIRE© Appalachian Trail when in the last 2 pages of the book he goes into great detail about the exact number of miles he calculated he actually hiked. So when Jack says:

Anyone with rudimentary reading comprehension skills knows exactly what Bryson meant and it isn’t that he hiked the ENTIRE© Appalachian Trail. To say the least, it is disingenuous to say you have “read” the AWITW, found 258 factual errors(or whatever) in the book and make that fallacious claim. That is just plain wrong and shows an obvious agenda.

Two final points: 1st the cover photo on the British and Canadian version of the book has a black bear and a moose, not the photo by well-known nature photographer Art Wolfe of a grizzly bear. The editors in NY may not be that knowledgeable about bears, and only know Smoky the Bear.

2nd the fact that Bryson made money from hiking the trail (in the interest of full disclosure, I have as well, although not as much as Bryson) has nothing to do with the worth of his writings. Yes it would be nice if he gave something back to the trail but that can be said for thousands who have hiked the trail and done nothing for it afterwards, them’s the breaks.

So despite the fact that AWITW is a more heavily discussed book than the Bible , it is just an entertaining book, nothing more, nothing less, take it for what it’s worth (or what you think it’s worth) and move on.

Well, for what it's worth the windy one is right, more or less. Bryson walked most of the way through the Smokies and did a few day hikes through the summer, and part of the so called "hundred-mile-wilderness" in the fall. I question his arithmetic, but that's hardly important.

What I find fascinating is that Bryson seemed to have met no one on the trail that remotely resembles most of those I met on the trail. I conclude that he probably didn't really meet those people he wrote about, but just imagined them -- since they all seem to fit common stereotypes, not real living people.

But whatever. It certainly was a fun read -- from a fairy tale perspective, anyway.

Weary

[Tin Man]

Well, for what it's worth the windy one is right, more or less. Bryson walked most of the way through the Smokies and did a few day hikes through the summer, and part of the so called "hundred-mile-wilderness" in the fall. I question his arithmetic, but that's hardly important.

What I find fascinating is that Bryson seemed to have met no one on the trail that remotely resembles most of those I met on the trail. I conclude that he probably didn't really meet those people he wrote about, but just imagined them -- since they all seem to fit common stereotypes, not real living people.

But whatever. It certainly was a fun read -- from a fairy tale perspective, anyway.

Weary

Yup, and I recall reading in previous forums that those who think they met him along the trail said there was no Katz and that he didn't talk much to the ones grinding it out. Fun, but fiction and (to many) a disservice to real trail folk.

[rafe]

Hmm, Bryson grabs the most attention ever about the AT, yet he doesn't quite get it right. In fact, he gets a lot of it wrong, criticizes the people he meets along the way, then quits. Nope, no passionate AT'ers should ever touch that.

Ok, one more time, what did he get wrong? Let's see what's been mentioned so far in this thread:

1. Wrong kind of bear on the cover.
2. Off by a day or two (maybe) with regard to Bryson's stay at RSC
3. Disagreement over # of bowls of chili eaten at RSC (for the record, Bryson himself says he had two bowls. - P. 82 of paperback edition.)
4. Something about the murders in SNP (in 1996?) -- ATC spokespersons mis-quoted?
5. Something about Alden Partridge and the military academy in Norwich VT

Surely there's more, right? I mean, this is the best that the accusers can come up with?

There have been numerous accusations of inaccuracies in this thread, and a handful of folks asking for actual examples of inaccuracies. You'd think the accusers could come up with something better than the list above.

[Brrrb Oregon]

The Weasel just moaned, "Keep them away!!! Please!!! I can't be eaten again!!! What do they think I am???? Chili???" When he is coherent again, we will try to let you know. It is difficult telling, sometimes, so be patient.

The Weasel Clan

Again? He coherent a first time, and I missed it? And why does he want us to know that he eats his chili twice? He's following a dinosaur, and I'm not even sure that the lizard part of his brain is working.

This is scaring me. Make him stop. Egads, I know he is both a lawyer and from Southern California, but I think he needs some kind of medical exam....starting with whatever region of his body he attempts to think with first. In the meantime, medicate him, or reprimand him, or hit him with a fire hose. Something! Anything!

[Brrrb Oregon]

If you think this thread is a hoot, you should read the 913 reviews of the book on Amazon.com

Let's just say that it seems to be far more popular with those who like thinking about hiking than those who actually do it, with the exception of those who are looking for satire and not a documentary. (Oh, and people who LOVED his previous books were much more easily won over! )

My two cents is that he doesn't seem to have much affection for people who are different than he is. I find that off-putting, like the kids at school who laugh at the other ones who dress or talk differently than they do. Satire should be the weak taking shots at the powerful, not the tourists taking shots at the locals. The latter is nor only arrogant; it is just mean.

But you know, it's just a book. It's not one that's going to win him any awards for journalism or literature, but I have friends whom I admire who like it. It isn't their problem that I don't. If he finds an audience that wants to buy it, well, it is a free country.

Still, it didn't make me want to hike with him.

[skeeterfeeder]

Since when did you start trolling. I can hear you laughing here in Missouri over this thing you've stirred up.

By the way, I was just thinking about the Trail Magic your dad dropped on us. Great food. Tell everyone hello for me. Skeeterfeeder.

[Mags]

I believe it is time to take advantage of the beautiful weather, get away from these computers and out on the trails to let off some of that steam. Don't y'all agree?

Damn straight! Spring is in the air. I saw my first two spring wildflowers tonight on my afterwork "Social hike":
Pasque Flowers and Sand Lilies. Being a social kind of fellow, I also grabbed a pint. (Just one..I'm tired. )

The days are longer, the foothills are snow free and the mountains in the distance are calling.

Enough kibbitzing over an almost decade old book.
Do what Ms. Dixie says. Get off the keyboard and get out there and hike!

[bfitz]

Not to worry, Tin Man. I'm likely to be civil as long as I keep certain individuals on "ignore."

Likely, maybe, but not guaranteed.

[Tin Man]

Ok, one more time, what did he get wrong? Let's see what's been mentioned so far in this thread:

1. Wrong kind of bear on the cover.
2. Off by a day or two (maybe) with regard to Bryson's stay at RSC
3. Disagreement over # of bowls of chili eaten at RSC (for the record, Bryson himself says he had two bowls. - P. 82 of paperback edition.)
4. Something about the murders in SNP (in 1996?) -- ATC spokespersons mis-quoted?
5. Something about Alden Partridge and the military academy in Norwich VT

Surely there's more, right? I mean, this is the best that the accusers can come up with?

There have been numerous accusations of inaccuracies in this thread, and a handful of folks asking for actual examples of inaccuracies. You'd think the accusers could come up with something better than the list above.

Examples expemplify the missing examples and I am not interested in pointing out more examples. Like I said before, if you want to be entertained do your own Bryson search and you will find more inaccuracies. Write a research report if it is that important to you. Personally, I don't care about what "facts" he may have gotten wrong as much as what he got wrong in terms of the people he claims to have came across, making it sound like most were not worthy of his respect. And like I said, I did enjoy the book. So, feel free to keep digging, but I have wasted enough of my time on a subject that has been exhausted already.

Tin Man out on the Bryson diatribe.