Ok, Ok. Take the medicine you're selling, and let it all cool off.Originally Posted by Gogators
Agreed but if we let it cool off what are us cyber blazers to do?I've still got tomorrow and all next week to work. Then I get to hang up my keyboard and mouse and throw on my pack. Until then I enjoy a little cyber scuffle.
Down with all stoners. You suck.
Now let's get high.
"Protect your kids from violence and dope by killing your neighbor." I think Jesus said that.
Whatever, Bong Hits for JC.
Don't worry brrrb he was a troll.
The self-hating also deplore nature's finest gifts. And thus, abuse and misuse them.
Yes, that is an excellent way to teach children that some things are socially unacceptable, i.e., to let them know that when they disagree with how others behave, they should engage in confrontations that will, at their option, escalate into fighting. Yes, I see that now. It makes perfect sense. I hope you are just as good a parent when they, too, misbehave, so that when they fail to behave properly fast enough, you beat them, too. These are lessons that children need, I'm sure you agree.
The Weasel
"Thank God! there is always a Land of Beyond, For us who are true to the trail..." --- Robert Service
Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you.
Beat...your children well...
Great song. I guess I had the lyrics wrong.
This is the second time in nearly 3 months that I've agreed wth The Weasel. I'm sceared. Someone help me.
I guess he's gone but I know one recovery slogan "LIVE AND LET LIVE'' dosn't seem that our friend knows that one.
E-Z---"from sea to shining sea''
Schulo, I've been in recovery for 22 years. The principles of the 12-step programs emphasize personal responsibility. They are not a license to force your will on others. The serenity prayer is a central theme and illustrates the idea: Accept the things you can't change, change the things you can....
You cannot change other people. You might be able to overpower them and force them to move on, but if you feel so strongly that your children do not need to be exposed to any drug use, I suggest you work your program and take personal responsibility for your children. Plan to camp away from shelters, home-school your children, never allow them any unsupervised contact with other children or families, never allow them to watch unsupervised TV, screen everything they read, never let them surf the Net unsupervised -- and screen your recovering friends as relapses do happen.
In case you haven't figured this out by now, I'm saying drug and alcohol use is a part of our society and you cannot keep your kids from finding out about them. You need to teach your kids that drug and alcohol use can cause great harm and ways to avoid becoming trapped in addiction. Teach your kids HOW now - honesty, open-mindedness and willingness will put them well on their way to avoiding addiction. Simply protecting them from ever seeing drug or alcohol use will not do this - you need to talk with them when they do see it and explain why it is not a good idea and how to deal with it - over and over - just like you have likely already done in teaching them to pick up toys, clean their rooms, etc.
I'm bemused by the idea that the best way to keep kids from doing something is to keep them totally ignorant that this thing exists--alcohol, drugs, sex, bad language, whatever.
My kids were 14, 11, and 7 when we moved to Russia for a three-year stint in a small city. Russia has the highest rate of alcoholism in the world. I'm not sure if we ever left the apartment without seeing someone so drunk they could hardly stand. We saw a young man fall face down in a slush puddle, too drunk to rise. He would have drowned had his friends not dragged him out. We saw a guy on a steep hill in a park, on his knees, peeing, when he lost his balance and rolled down the hill, pee spraying in an arc. We saw a guy weaving along the street, then falling out full length into some concrete forms. What can I say? It was sadder than any "dangers of drink and drugs" movie ever made. Do my kids drink? A little. Do any of them have a problem with it? No. Seeing other people drink and smoke is NOT the source of addiction. Prohibition is not the answer.
BTW, in about six months of staying in shelters, I only had people light up in front of me a few times, and most of the smokers were men about my age who either announced what they were planning to do, or asked first. (I think my gray hair was a natural deterent--as the presence of a child would be.) The joke is that I really don't care.
And the nudity thing? It hasn't been my experience that shelters are teaming with people prancing around in the buff. There is the occasional quick change of clothing in which people are invited to turn their heads the other direction. This is somehow supposed to traumatize a child for life?
As so many have pointed out...always be prepared to tent.
Marta/Five-Leaf
If not NOW, then WHEN?
ME>GA 2006
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=3277
Instagram hiking photos: five.leafed.clover
Thank you Jack and it is looking like that would be the best thing to do which is why I asked the question to rather cement my thought on this issue. Moreover, wanting to be as courteous to the AT community as we (my Family) can possible be, and show respect when on the trail. Besides, it might be a chance to buy a new tent or a used one, but still new to me.
Fonsie that is the kind of thing I am trying to avoid and want to make sure that I know in advance before going out. I want people to remember me and my family as the exception to the norm. I want my kids to see the communal interaction of a group of people from all walks of life and see another side of the world that I think is one that has life long lessons to learn from. I am sorry if this hit a nerve of the community. Moreover, I guess I can see all side of the talk. I do not condone drugs but have used my self when I was a kid. And am glade that I made the right choose for my self and my family early enough to make a difference. In addition, I have been exposed to violence my whole career (Infantry US ARMY) and with both of those worlds in my baggage I want to show my kids the better things in life. Therefore, the outdoors and the AT are what I am using to do this. Then the family time that we can share together is what I am really in pursuit of, no TV, no cell phone. Striping away all of the things that would get in our way of good communication and a chance to just talk with them. Once again, I did not want to start all of this with so much controversy, I just wanted to make sure we were adhering to the unwritten rules of the Trail.
I'm not buying this post.
I've seen a *lot* of boy scouts on the trail and I have never -- and I mean never -- seen them use a shelter when on a hiking trip during the spring-summer-fall. They always tent. Always.
I've never seen scouts mess with someone elses gear.
I have seen scouts use shelters during the winter.
I know my son had to work on a Leave No Trace badge for the Cub Scouts and they also have one for the Boy Scouts and it is sad if this did happen but it just reinforces my thinking that if you teach your children what right is they will always be able to see what is wrong in situations like the one referred to before. And if that is so then I would hope that with the earlier teaching of, that my kids can talk to me about any thing that after he got back from a trip like that he would tell me immediately and I would have some chose words for the supposed adults on that trip.
He obviously never heard about "Easy Does It" either.
While regulars here know I'm not a big fan of BSA for other reasons, in close to 9,000 miles of hiking/backpacking I have never seen this extreme behavior anywhere in the backcountry from scouts or their leaders. Most have been well enough behaved and their leaders at least competent. A few exceptions, sure, but nothing as bad as you describe. I think your encounters in Maryland were very much an aberration not likely to be repeated often. I'm not surprised these two incidents have soured you on Scouting but haven't you also seen some well-led, considerate troops out there too?
FWIW, Dahlgren's location so close to a road, with its amenities like showers and multiple tentpads/picnic tables, are also kind of an aberration. IMHO there are damned few places like it elsewhere on the AT. For good reason--the location and amenities attract problems. Even the occasaional thief as I hear it. I never stay at Dahlgren tho I once took a shower there...a very nice shelter exists about two miles south with plenty of tenting opportunities away from the shelter structure.
Last edited by Skyline; 03-23-2007 at 10:55.
With that attitiude, even in the unlikely event that you do encounter such a situation, you will be able to handle it without any problems. Again, as Marta said, kids are a natural deterrant to bad behavior. Believe it or not, most people encounter children regularly on and off the trail and unlike the militant rehab guy, are concious of the fact that we are responsible for setting a good example for them.
Thank you bfitz your words are encouraging and I thank you for them, and agree with you I think most people will respect the fact that kids will be around. And by the sound of it on this issue even if some one was not respectful, the other people would be, and it is that peer pressure that might make every one act a little better. I know 99.9999% of the people are good on the trail and I know that my family and I will have no problems what so ever and even if we do, I know that we will have a lot of support from the others on the trail. As long as we do our part to respect every one else in the same way. I am excited about this move and invigorated at the thought of getting the time to spend out on the trail.
Well after after reading some of the responses I wonder if you really mean to thank posters for ANY response.
Any way, enjoying the outdoors has very little to do with hoboing in a shelter, it simply isn't a necessary part of the experience any more than sleeping in an alleyway cardboard box is to enjoying Paris or Rome. Get a pair of reasonably light tents and set up a camp well away from the shelter. when you do pass by the shelter your kids can regard it as a curiousity and be thankful they are enjoying a real "outdoor" experience. If the inhabitants look worthwhile pause and chat, if not move along. It's all fine and good for kids to get a broad based education from meeting different people, but you don't need to get to know Charles Manson to more fully appreciate how unique your slightly crazy Aunt Emma is.
Another upside to pure camping, the kids can learn to pick a good spot, set up the tents and then most importantly clean up to leave as little trace as possible.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
