Town listings in books

[attroll]

This question is for thru hikers that have used data books.

I doing some research on some issues and have a question for past and current thru hikers. As I said this question is for those that carried a book or just the pages from a book on your hike.

Keeping in mind the weight, size and space the book will take up whether is was the Data Book, The Companion or The Thru Hikers Handbook and you were coming into a trail town. If you want to keep the books as small as possible and as light as possible but wanted to make sure it had all the essential data. What were the things that you thought should be listed the most for Trail towns?

Here are some of the essentials that I thought of and I was wondering if I was missing anything or would any of these be something that you think should not be in the books

Hostels
Lodging
Restaurants
Shuttles
Food re-supplies
Outfitter
Laundry
Phone
Post Office

[MarcnNJ]

Perhaps Library should be included? I also liked when a general layout for the town was given, although there were many cases where the towns were small enough where its not needed.

[SGT Rock]

Here is my opinion based on hiking into a few strange towns

1. Hostels - dates they are open, and cost.
2. Lodging - cost
3. Restaurants - Unless there is some place that is special, don't list them. A hiker will find these on their own.
4. Shuttles - phone number and price
5. Food re-supplies - unless there is some special info, I only need to know when they are open.
6. Outfitter - when they are open and if this is a "real outfitter"
7. Laundry - I just need to know if one exists in town.
8. Phone - if you come to a special trail crossing where there is a phone - then yes. Otherwise do not list phones.
9. Post Office - days and times open.
10. Library - days, times, and internet connections

All that said, the other thing that does help is a strip map of town with locations of where things are in relation to one another. So a map that shows me if I cross highway 666 and take a right there will be a hotel and to the right front will be the post office and down the street is the grocery with a laundry mat next to it. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. BUT in the case of a guide I would put all the strip maps on individual pages (you could theoretically put more than one town strip map per page) in the back of the book and not in-line with the description. This way a hiker that only wants to know the data and can find stuff themselves can opt not to carry it, while a hiker that does want to have the pages can tear out the pages to carry with the section of the book they decide to hike with.

[Nest]

As far as listing restaurants, I might disagree with Rock unless AYCE is special. I would like the AYCE restaurants to be listed. When I was doing a section hike through Hiwassee, a gut who was just passing through picked me up and drove me into town. The only reason we made it to the Hiwassee Inn was because of the map. Had I wanted to go eat first, and my generous driver offered to drop me off anywhere I wanted, I could show him the restaurant on the map.

[Gray Blazer]

I would like the AYCE restaurants to be listed. When I was doing a section hike through Hiwassee, a gut who was just passing through picked me up and drove me into town.

A gut would be the best person(?) to show you the AYCE places I would assume.

[Marta]

Places with internet access are good to list. Banks/ATMs. A crude map of town is extremely useful. One thing Yogi's maps include is an idea of the scale, such as "Distance from Main St. to PO is .5 miles."

Marta/Five-Leaf

[Nest]

A gut would be the best person(?) to show you the AYCE places I would assume.

Heck yeah! I tried a liver once, but that just kept getting me dropped off at bars and I was hungry.

[Alligator]

I might be able to help you with creating maps Attroll. It would depend on how many towns you want and how difficult it is for me to geocode the addresses. They would be to scale. I'd have to do one town first to get an idea of the time requirement.

[Jack Tarlin]

What is the purpose of all this "research?"

Sure sounds to me like someone's working on a new Guidebook, along the lines of the Companion or the Handbook.

Is this your personal project, Troll? Or is it to be a Whiteblaze project?

And if it's a Whiteblaze project, i.e. if it'll be published under the Whiteblaze auspices or name, is this something we should be doing, i.e. is there really a need for this book? Is it in the Trail's best interest or WB's best interest to publish a work that competes with an already existing one put out by ATC and ALDHA? Wouldn't it be better for people to apply their energy and help the existing book in order to improve it, rather than compete with it? ATC and ALDHA are perenially cash-strapped; with the apparent absence of Dan Bruce's Thru Hikers Handbook next year, these organizations are in a great position to have a banner year with Companion sales in 2008. This opportunity would surely be comprised by the sudden appearance of a new guidebook.

Should Whiteblaze be doing this?

I'd like to hear other opinions on this.

[Lone Wolf]

The Companion can be improved greatly. If Whiteblaze can come up with a similar, smaller guide then I'm all for it. Gotta have choices.

[Jack Tarlin]

Couldn't agree more, Wolf, there's always room for improvement. Which is why I hope more folks, especially recently finished thru-hikers, offer their services to the editors of the 2008 Thru-Hikers Companion. I see nothing wrong with "competition" in the free market; I'm just not sure there's a need for this new work; I'm not sure Whiteblaze should be doing it; I absolutely have reservations about material from this website being used in, or adapted, for a book that will compete with the ATC and ALDHA and compromise their book sales; and I think this is a subject worth discussing.

[SGT Rock]

Couldn't agree more, Wolf, there's always room for improvement. Which is why I hope more folks, especially recently finished thru-hikers, offer their services to the editors of the 2008 Thru-Hikers Companion. I see nothing wrong with "competition" in the free market; I'm just not sure there's a need for this new work; I'm not sure Whiteblaze should be doing it; I absolutely have reservations about material from this website being used in, or adapted, for a book that will compete with the ATC and ALDHA and compromise their book sales; and I think this is a subject worth discussing.

What Jack said. I don't want to cut into the money of the organizations that support the trail. Sort of like shooting yourself in the foot if you end up hurting the organizations that support the trail.

[SGT Rock]

As far as listing restaurants, I might disagree with Rock unless AYCE is special. I would like the AYCE restaurants to be listed. When I was doing a section hike through Hiwassee, a gut who was just passing through picked me up and drove me into town. The only reason we made it to the Hiwassee Inn was because of the map. Had I wanted to go eat first, and my generous driver offered to drop me off anywhere I wanted, I could show him the restaurant on the map.

IMO AYCE qualifies as special.

Places with internet access are good to list. Banks/ATMs. A crude map of town is extremely useful. One thing Yogi's maps include is an idea of the scale, such as "Distance from Main St. to PO is .5 miles."

Marta/Five-Leaf

ATM locations shown? Maybe. Seems like you can't go anywhere these days without tripping over one. But I suppose there could be times when they are hard to find.

[Roland]

~ I absolutely have reservations about material from this website being used in, or adapted, for a book that will compete with the ATC and ALDHA and compromise their book sales; and I think this is a subject worth discussing.

I'm not sure I understand your concern, Jack.

Is that you don't support the inclusion of information posted by WB members, in a guidebook to be produced by WhiteBlaze?

Or is it that you object to WhiteBlaze producing a guidebook, that might compete with ATC/ALDHA publications?

[Jack Tarlin]

It should also be pointed out that Whiteblaze presently enjoys very cordial relations with both ATC and ALDHA......several ALDHA Board members, such as Jester and Blister Sister, are regular and valued contributors here. We've also enjoyed many useful and informative posts from Laurie Potteiger, who runs the information services desk for the ATC in Harpers Ferry. Many regulars here at Whiteblaze are members of either ATC, ALDHA, or frequently both organizations, and take part in their activities. I think there are a lot of folks who'd be made uncomfortable by seeing Whiteblaze competing with these organizations for readers of a Trail Guidebook; a new Guidebook would indeed cost these fine organizations money they can ill afford to lose; and I think the new book could potentially damage relations between these groups and Whiteblaze, relations which are now excellent.

Other questions.....who'd be the author of this book? And who would be chosen to edit it? Would they be former thru-hikers speaking from their own experiences, or would they be relying on information gleaned from others, including from participants here on WB? And where would the revenues from such a book go?

All worth thinking about.

[Lone Wolf]

Speaking of the Companion, are any of you field editors? I am for Damascus and I haven't heard a word from ALDHA or the new editor for 08, Leslie Mass. I need her address to send updates which are due tomorrow. e-mail hasn't been answered. Anybody have it?

[Jack Tarlin]

Roland:

I thought I made my concerns pretty clear above. But since you asked:

1. I don't think WB should produce a book that would be in direct
competition......in a very small market.....with ATC or ALDHA.

2. I'm uncomfortable with any of my own contributions here being used,
or being adapted for use in such a book. This was not why I sent
along my contributions over the years. I suspect others might feel
likewise. To be clear, I'm not remotely interested in any personal
gain or compensation for any of my Whiteblaze posts; I'm just not sure I'd
want to see them appear in, or be used for a work whose very existence
I question the need for.

3. I'm curious as to who will write this book, who will edit it, what their
hiking background and qualifications are, who will own the rights to the
book, and who will have control over any subsequent revenues from it,
and what that money will be used for. I also have doubts about whether
or not this book will help Whiteblaze's reputation in the long-distance
hiking community, or will possibly damage it. In brief, a good Guidebook
will hurt the ATC and ALDHA; a poor one will only hurt Whiteblaze.

[Jack Tarlin]

Wolf:

Try Lnmass at hotmail dot com.

(In case anyone's wondering, I always intentionally spell out personal E-mail addresses when posting them here; it cuts down on the Spam they receive).

[Marta]

Speaking of the Companion, are any of you field editors? I am for Damascus and I haven't heard a word from ALDHA or the new editor for 08, Leslie Mass. I need her address to send updates which are due tomorrow. e-mail hasn't been answered. Anybody have it?

I'm supposed to be covering for Sly this year. My emails aren't being answered either.

Marta/Five-Leaf

[Lone Wolf]

hmmm. when cindy was editor she was on the ball and sent out many reminders months before the sept. 1st deadline. i've heard nothing from no one.