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Thread: About Stoves

  1. #21
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    Mags,
    You do man! This is going to be an article? Hope so. It is a great resource. If you want to see a spreadsheet for average daily haul, email me. I have a home brewed one in Excell - not upgraded for a couple of years, but you might find it useful for a starter. I also have a gear decision matrix you can plug different stoves/fuels into to come up with interesting results. On the basis of one such analysis, I moved to Esbit some time ago, despite my initial misgivings. My enthusiastic investment in cannister stoves went caput.

  2. #22
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock View Post
    As I remembr it, alcohol is ABOUT 0.9 ounces per fluid ounce and gas is about 0.7. But that is off the top of my head.
    I derived my figures from: http://www.kzpg.com/Backpacking/Stove/Stoves.htm

    Would not be the first time I interepet, copied or found the wrong info though.

    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock View Post
    Note that this is just what we call "beer math".
    I thought that was what happens when you have 2 cases of beer and 6 people?

    (Did too much "wine math" last night...well, until 5:30 AM. Needless to say scaled down my skiing a bit today..oof!)

    In any case, was doing the Chemistry 101 blurb just as a reminder for people. I am not too math oriented, so just went for the first figures I found that made sense to me.

    Hope it all works!
    Paul "Mags" Magnanti
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  3. #23
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    Mags,
    I also have a gear decision matrix you can plug different stoves/fuels into to come up with interesting results.

    Thanks for the offer. Sounds like some great info! But, trying to keep the doc from too many numbers. Want it to be a more "quick and dirty guide" without bogging down a reader with too much data. Know what I mean?

    Now that I think about, the link below has similar data too. If you have your data/program on a website, could link it if you like!

    The link I mentioned:

    http://www.kzpg.com/Backpacking/Stove/Stoves.htm
    Paul "Mags" Magnanti
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  4. #24
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    I had to go look it up, but the specific gravity of the following fuels are below:

    Water: 1.00
    Gas: 0.71
    Kerosene: 0.82
    Olive Oil: 0.70
    Alcohol: 0.79

    So this is specific gravity which is different from weight. This is a liquid's weight in relation to water. Water weighs 1.04 ounces per fluid ounce. So that means the weight are really as follows:

    Water: 1.04
    Gas: 0.74
    Kerosene: 0.85
    Olive Oil: 0.73
    Alcohol: 0.82

    All that said, these are still sort of ballpark numbers since temp and altitude also effect the volume of liquids. But doing "trail math" (better definition than beer math for this purpose) this will get you by.

    This also means some of the numbers for alcohol in my example above are a little heavy since I ball-parked alcohol at 0.9 instead of 0.82 LOL.
    SGT Rock
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  5. #25
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    Ah..so my "trail math" is not too far off then. Who would thunk it! I also realized there is a reason why I majored in history and not math!
    Paul "Mags" Magnanti
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  6. #26
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    I figured those five liquids were the ones important to most hikers
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

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    Mags,
    That is one tight site.
    Not exactly the same thing as the decision matrix, but very useful and user friendly. Thanks.

  8. #28

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    This is a very informative site on stoves.

    http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_GasStoves.htm

    This is about the canister Lindal Valve B188

    The LINDAL threaded valve with special thread 7/16 NS (made to EN417).

    http://www.lindalgroup.com/documents...2321-03-04.pdf
    “Only two things are infinite; The universe and human stupidity,
    And I’m starting to wonder about the universe.”
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  9. #29

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    Great article Mags. Very in-depth.

    Lately, I've been cooking with a tiny campfire on nice days and using alcohol on the crappy ones. Works great, and keeps my firebuilding skills in check. 3 tent stakes and the windscreen from my stove works for me.

    When I thru-hiked, I resupplied by buying bottles of HEET most of the time. Each bottle has 12 oz of fuel, and I typically never had any more than a 16 oz soda bottle full at any one time. I know there are plenty of hostels that sell by the ounce now, but I'd still plan around that 12 oz figure. Walking all over town to buy 4 oz of fuel to get you to the next town is a drag, so alot of folks will buy enough for a week and call it a day. Yes, its a few ounces more, but life's not perfect.

    If the weather was decent, I could probably stretch 12 oz of fuel for 2 weeks. I can live with that. I only cook once a day though.

    Again, great article.

  10. #30
    Registered User oldfivetango's Avatar
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    Dare I to use the word.......Sterno?
    I was going thru my closet last nigt and found some.
    After scrapping my much loved Svea 123 brass beauty
    for the Brasslite alcohol stove and the Bean Dip can
    stove I am always cognizant that alcohol can leak or
    spill.Sterno,on the otherhand is like a jellied alcohol
    and won't spill.When you're done you can put the lid
    on it.One can runs about two hours.I have not done a
    test yet but assuming 10 minutes to boil water for the
    ziplock bag meal and a cuppa joe then I figure about
    a dozen uses per can.For a pretty reliable backup, I wonder
    why nobody ever even considers it?Doesn't seem to be the
    weight to me but obviously it must be the consensus of
    the community that it is.Anyone care to comment?
    Cheers,
    OFT
    Keep on keeping on.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by doodah man View Post
    ...However, a point that I would like to add, as I switch over to an alcohol stove for non-winter use, is that I am starting to see more efficient alcohol stoves where a two cup boil can be done with around 1/2 ounce of fuel. (To name two, we have Whiteblaze member Zelph’s wickitized wedding favor tin ‘Starlyte’, and the soda can stove on steroids ‘FeatherFire’ - www.packafeather.com ) Even assuming a bit less than ideal condition 1/2 ounce per boil fuel consumption, a 2 week average haul weight of 16 ounces looks achievable and the start weight would be about the same as a canister stove. Beyond two weeks, I can’t imagine that a few ounces of stove maters much either way when you have over 30 pounds of food on your back. (In the spirit of full disclosure, I am a recent buyer of a Starlyte). "doodah-man
    Thats a good point!
    1/2 avoirdupois ounce easily boils 1 pint in a Trangia, too, usually I just .4 avdp ounce to heat the water to about 180F(when I first hear the soft rumbling of the water beginning to boil) I carry just one weight ounce/day for cooking 2 meals, 1 pint each. I believe I am going back to the Trangia because of the 'fuss' factor-because it takes so much less fiddling & guessing when I use it. "Just fill it & forget it"!

    I am amazed how so many folks can so obstinately obsess over a few little partial ounces while cooking when hiking-me included. Really, though, It all "boils" down to the simple truth that any hike could be easily done with either stove-or even no stove at all. I just cant seem to take that advice, though

  12. #32
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    [quote=highway;303389]I believe I am going back to the Trangia because of the 'fuss' factor-because it takes so much less fiddling & guessing when I use it. "Just fill it & forget it"!

    ==================================================

    Came to that same conclusion quite a while ago. Own and have tried all the stove types and know the trade-offs of each.

    When it comes to cooking I'm not in a big hurry but prefer things as simple as possible.

    You can find lighter, faster approaches but, all things considered ...it's pretty hard to knock the Trangia when it comes to basic functionality, durability and reliability.

    'Slogger
    The more I learn ...the more I realize I don't know.

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    Is there a lot of variation in efficiency between one alcohol stove and the next? I only have experience with the Anti Gravity Gear (TinMan) stove. Generally speaking, on this stove, 1/2 ounce of alcohol will not boil a pint of water, even in optimal conditions. Even 1 ounce fails on occasion.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrapin_too View Post
    Is there a lot of variation in efficiency between one alcohol stove and the next? I only have experience with the Anti Gravity Gear (TinMan) stove. Generally speaking, on this stove, 1/2 ounce of alcohol will not boil a pint of water, even in optimal conditions. Even 1 ounce fails on occasion.
    ==============================

    I own 4 alcohol stoves ...the Trangia and 3 home made ultralight models. When I bought the lighter weight ones I noticed quite a decrease in performance as compared with the Trangia. By experimenting with elevating the stoves off the ground, different wind shields and cookpot heights I was able to get better performance. But that in itself was one of the reasons I chose to go back to the Trangia. Works first time, everytime and the set-up is fast, simple and reproducible.

    'Slogger
    The more I learn ...the more I realize I don't know.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldfivetango View Post
    Dare I to use the word.......Sterno?
    I was going thru my closet last nigt and found some.
    After scrapping my much loved Svea 123 brass beauty
    for the Brasslite alcohol stove and the Bean Dip can
    stove I am always cognizant that alcohol can leak or
    spill.Sterno,on the otherhand is like a jellied alcohol
    and won't spill.When you're done you can put the lid
    on it.One can runs about two hours.I have not done a
    test yet but assuming 10 minutes to boil water for the
    ziplock bag meal and a cuppa joe then I figure about
    a dozen uses per can.For a pretty reliable backup, I wonder
    why nobody ever even considers it?Doesn't seem to be the
    weight to me but obviously it must be the consensus of
    the community that it is.Anyone care to comment?
    Cheers,
    OFT
    Sure.

    If you're worried about spills and accidental tip-overs then take a look at Zelph's Starlyte Stove.

    His claim that it won't leak if tipped over with one ounce is spot on. Take some care keeping water and moisture away from it and it will prove to be a reliable, excellent, and superior alternative to Sterno and still give you the safety benefit.
    Skids

    Insanity: Asking about inseams over and over again and expecting different results.
    Albert Einstein, (attributed)

  16. #36
    Registered User ImkerVS's Avatar
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    What about the Trailstove?

    Link: http://www.trailstove.com/

    No batteries.

  17. #37
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    On my last section hike of At I dumped my whisper lite and purchased a Esbitt stove with 5 pellets at Walsi-Yi. I was happy with it but you need to place the stove (once its cooled) in a large zip lock bag and the same with the pellts. It lighted easily and seemed efficient. Sure is lighter. -SunnyWalker
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    Wow, very informative article I am looking for a new stove and it seems that the alcohol stove would make the most sense for me now. I have my old svea and love it despite the weight. I don't like the trash accumulation with canisters and as time goes by, new models with new types of canisters replace the old making them obsolete. So alcohol is my nnext purchase but there are sooo many to choose from and while i like to take my time cooking, I do like my morning coffee quick.

  19. #39
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    Wow..this an old thread. But thx for the kind words!

    I have the update to this 7 yo thread here
    http://www.pmags.com/stove-comparison-real-world-use
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  20. #40
    Registered User markdek's Avatar
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    My current setup is a gas stove (Snowpeak Lite Max) and a home made Fancy Feast alcohol, as a backup. This solved the, is my canister empty/how long will it last problem.....sort of.

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