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  1. #41
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    What about a pointed stick?

  2. #42

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    Just read it. It states conscientious objectors are exempt. So I guess the law is you must own a gun unless you don't want to. It also states they passed this law in response to another city's attempt to make it illegal to own a gun within its city limits. This also smacks of unconsitutionality. Once again the 5% of extremists on both ends of the spectrum providing fodder for the 90% in the middle.

  3. #43
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    In my town everyone must have at least one piece of passion fruit in their home at all times. It is in response to a nearby town which has outlawed all references to Monty Python.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    In my town everyone must have at least one piece of passion fruit in their home at all times. It is in response to a nearby town which has outlawed all references to Monty Python.
    Your father's a hamster and your mother smells of elderberries.

  5. #45

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    You musgt bring me one shrubbery.. . .

  6. #46
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock View Post
    A gun is not needed on the AT at all!

    I'm not a anti gun freak, in fact I'm an advocate of legal gun ownership. I own two pistols, two rifles, and one shotgun. I hunt (well I have, but not in a while), target shoot, and carry firearms as a part of my job. I've done that since I was ten, and have been actually working with weapons as a profession over 17 years. As an NCO in the Army in a direct ground combat specialty I understand very well the safety needs of a weapon, the responsibilities of carrying a loaded weapon, and what it really takes to have the correct mental attitude to use deadly force.

    But I think that a lot of people that are potential gun carriers have not thought about, or realize the real consequences of carrying a gun.

    First thing you should consider is the legality. Carrying a concealed weapon is almost universally illegal. You could carry a pistol in a holster on your hip, but no one will be interested in being close to you, and then the potential attacker also knows you are packing and can take steps to prevent you gun use. But carrying a gun is also illegal in many parks you must cross. AND, some states like NJ will take your gun and lock you up if you transport firearms through the state without the proper documents.

    Next is the legality of shooting someone - it isn't. Sure you may claim self defense, but that means you must stop everything you are doing with your hike and your life to go through the process of police reports, investigation, possibly going to court for bail and time in jail while they sort it out, maybe a trial or at least grand jury (Weasel would know the ins and outs better). AND you may not have anyone to back up your story against the local boy. Also remember they guy in Louisiana about 10 or so years ago that shot the Japanese exchange student because he thought the guy was trying to break into his house, but the student just wanted to borrow a phone after his car broke down - my point is you may kill some innocent person thinking you are in danger when you really aren't. HOW COULD YOU LIVE WITH YOURSELF AFTER THAT!?! I will talk about this again.

    How about the weight? Even a light gun with ammo weighs about a pound and that is useless weight. How about maintenance? Guns require cleaning and lubrication. Mud, sand, and water aren't good for them; guess what there is a lot of on the trail.

    How about training? Most people can point and shoot, some can even shoot well at cans. But in a real gunfight even professionals have a hard time hitting anything. Remember that video of the two sheriffs having a gun fight about 5' from a couple of white separatists when they pulled them over? Over 30 shots fired at close range from professional police and NOT ONE SINGLE HIT! Can you look someone in the face and actually pull the trigger? What will you do after shooting them and the blood is everywhere and this human being is pleading for their life after you shot them? People don't always drop like in the movies, and it is a bloody mess. Will you let them die in front of you? If you will, you're sick. If you do the right thing, imagine how much of a problem and a responsibility it is to treat a gunshot person, especially when they are bleeding out and their backside looks like raw hamburger.

    A responsible gun user must always carry their gun on them. To let it out of your possession means anyone else can get it. And for defense, it must always be ready, and always be very accessible. If you plan to put it inside your pack neither requirement is met, so there is no usefulness in the weapon. If you are always carrying it, then how? They do make holster/waist belts that look like a normal waist belt, but after carrying it 24/7 for a month will you feel safe or burdened? What will you do when showering in a hostel? Or swimming in a creek? People will catch on, then you may have problems.

    I mention this before about shooting someone innocent accidentally, but I think I must cover this from experience. When you are in the defensive mode, every other person you meet, and I mean EVERY OTHER PERSON, must be considered a potential threat or otherwise you loose the defensive edge. Now imagine meeting 10-20 people a day on the trail. That is a lot of decision making about weather or not to pull pistols! Now multiply that by a 6 month hike - 1,800 to 3,600 possibilities of shooting an innocent person - and that is just on the trail! What I found was that everyone that was the lest bit suspicious caused me to go into the defensive mode and think about all the possibilities and options of a fight - not my hike. And in a three day period that was a lot of non-hike enjoyment time. I would see a guy in denim and sunglasses while I was carrying and see a potential hillside strangler, but without the gun he was a funny looking tourist. Either way I didn't need the gun, but with the gun I was focused on defending from a possible threat (which was false) while without the gun I shrugged it off and had fun.

    SO consider the actual threat. In 74 years (I think that is right) of the trail, there have been less than 10 murders. Now think of the length of the AT, and some of the areas it passes through or near and their crime rates. Think of the number of people on the trail every year and imagine a city with that population. A city with the same size/population of the Appalachian Trail would most likely have a lot more than 10 murders in 74 years. So you have a safer time on the trail than you do in your own home town if you look at it that way.

    Wildlife? Do you really think you can kill a bear with your snub nosed .38? And if you plan on doing that, well WHY?

    So why carry a pistol? I figure it is an unnatural fear of what is in the woods, or an anachronistic thought process that thinks wilderness=danger and gun=safety. Well the formula that says that is a hundred years out of date. Small women hikers can go the entire length of the At without killing anyone, why can't big macho guys get by without one?

    Wow, a longer rant than normall, and I don't think I hit all the aspects of why a gun isn't needed.
    This is a fabulous discourse on why guns are a silly and dangerous burden to carry on the AT. I hope everyone reads it and thinks about the Sarge's comments.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by weary View Post
    This is a fabulous discourse on why guns are a silly and dangerous burden to carry on the AT. I hope everyone reads it and thinks about the Sarge's comments.
    Absolutely agree.

  8. #48
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    Like religion, those on opposite sides of the question will never convince the other no matter how well stated the pros and cons. I've participated in way too many of these discussions to think otherwise. They usually end up with petty personal insults, name calling and references to phallic symbols.
    If you choose to not be armed, more power to you, it's your decision. Don't worry yourself about what's in my pocket, though. As long as you aren't trying to do anything bad to me you'll never know about it anyway.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by highway View Post
    The lopsided response elicited by this single topic is amazing in that it seems to bring out mostly the extremists on each side of the issue. I think that, other than those few extremists on the periphery, most hikers are ambivalent and care little what you bring. Personally, I really don’t feel we should be so quick to judge just another piece of backpacking gear that some might choose to either bring or not, like hiking poles. I don’t think either is really necessary in the wilderness. Guns are heavy to carry but I don’t presume to have the right to tell you not to carry one. I am terribly offended, though, walking along a beautiful narrow trail, seeing millions of tiny little holes alongside my path planted by the hikers using hiking poles that have gone before me. I had much rather see just the trail, the trodden path without those distracting holes and I have often wondered about the ecological damage being done by them. But just because I am offended by those holes, (LNT?) and am concerned that they are enlarging the pathway, does not give me the right to insist that you not use them.

    And I want. Now I wonder how many of those hikers with poles carried some firearm that I saw no evidence of? At least hiking poles in the hiker’s hands have affected the AT much more than firearms in those hands have. How does that apt phrase go, “hike your own hike but don’t force others to hike yours”? Anyway, more than half those killed on the AT were stabbed, not shot and the only murder I found that was committed by another hiker used a hatchet for the deed. Now I don’t think any of us really need to bring a hatchet, do we?
    The entire population of Red China could hike the AT with nuclear powered jackhammering leki's and not do the damage of one steel shod horse.

    Get real

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by vamelungeon View Post
    ...Don't worry yourself about what's in my pocket, though...
    I was hoping it was a banana.
    Last edited by Engine; 05-04-2009 at 09:49. Reason: fix quote
    “He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” –Socrates

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by krozby View Post
    The entire population of Red China could hike the AT with nuclear powered jackhammering leki's and not do the damage of one steel shod horse.

    Get real
    Uhhhh . . . . . Red China? . . . . is this 2009 or did I miss a memo. . . . or maybe I'm too far removed from my deep woods, frontier upbringing. . .
    Welcome Krozby. . . . I guess. . . .

  12. #52
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by take-a-knee View Post
    Excellent post! Well stated.
    About, "I don't believe in the notion that anyone can spot a psychopath, that a dangerous person gives off some kind of vibe. A successful psychopath blends in, and a successful attack is one you don't expect. I am nearly always armed, discreetly, and don't plan on being anyone's victim. Being armed is a personal choice, and doesn't have anything to do with fear but rather my knowledge of people after having spent my adult life working in the criminal justice system."

    People who don't expect to be robbed/raped/attacked make great victims. Declaring a place as a "gun free zone" sets up people as prey to human predators. I would rather keep the predators wondering."
    Do you suppose that a wise psychopath, suspecting you may be armed, might just pick up a stick from the fire ring and whack you on the back of the head, and then walk away with your gun, leaving you to be eaten by the nearest hungry bear?"

  13. #53

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    Weary - keeping ****tardation in vogue since 1869. . .

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by warraghiyagey View Post
    Weary - keeping ****tardation in vogue since 1869. . .
    i am just thankful that penguins aren't armed

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
    i am just thankful that penguins aren't armed
    I'm pretty sure the red squirrels are armed. Scare tons of people away with those

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by take-a-knee View Post
    Be sure and post a picture of your truck so all the local felons (who can't pass the background check to buy a gun) can steal your .357. A gun in a vehicle is damned near useless, it needs to be on your person. Do you drive to the trailhead? Do you leave a gun in a parked, unattended vehicle for days? At your age, if you haven't thought this through, you really need to refrain from giving personal security advice. I don't give out advice about computers, or rocket science, 'cause I don't know a damned thing about either one.

    I will agree with you that the danger to a physcially fit, averaged sized male on the AT is miniscule. If and when I ever thru, I probably wouldn't carry a handgun. Right now though I'm a section hiker who sometimes hikes with his teenaged daughter, so when you see me on the trail, ask and I'll show you my nine, cause mine won't be left in my vehicle, I'll have it handy.

    You make some good points. And I totally agree that many felons and nut cases can acquire a carry permit. We each have to make our decisions about our security or the security of those we care about. I think my primary point is that TOO much talk about weapons and carrying them on the trail sends the wrong message to the average person aspiring to hike our trails or spend time in the outdoors in our natural world. The trail is not a dangerous place. Carrying a concealed weapon is a personal choice, and if we do so in public, we need to be totally secretive about it, which includes discussions. My assessment of most of the hikers and others that I met along the A.T. between GA and ME last year is that they would not be comfortable in a discussion about firearms.

    Every once in awhile a nut shows up on our sacred trails, but they are rare. Perhaps the best way to handle situations like this Spike thing, (if in fact he's guilty), is similar to what happened on this thread. When a suspicious person with a peculiar or aggressive manner/behavior is encountered the word should be spread immediately up and down the trail. Let the operators at the hostels, and authorities know asap. Talk to other hikers about it so that everyone is on the lookout and are aware that there is someone out there that my be a psyco. Do not wait until a physical altercation occurs as it may be too late. There's been a lot of good discussion about the present incident on this thread, but in my opinion and others, it's 3-4 weeks too late. It should have been done immediately with the first occurrence, just so everyone is alert and watching. There is strength in numbers and words.

    My .357 Mag ? No one knows if I carry it or not, but anyone breaking into my truck won't find it.

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanati View Post
    Yo

    My .357 Mag ? No one knows if I carry it or not, but anyone breaking into my truck won't find it.
    Sounds like an invitation. . .

  18. #58
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    an invitation to get your head blown off.

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slimer View Post
    an invitation to get your head blown off.
    You hit the nail on the head. It's the "not knowing what's going to happen if you mess with someone" that keeps them at bay. That's the whole idea of concealment. I have some very close, mild mannered friends whom I "think" may carry a concealed weapon. I don't ever recall them mentioning it. These are really nice guys and girls.

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
    i am just thankful that penguins aren't armed
    Does this me you are a fellow futurama fan?

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