I don't understand why people rave about AWOL'S guide and certain apps

[Matt_C]

The apps have no instructions an and there are several very severe problems with Awol's guide. As far as youtube videos go, they're basically useless because the people going over these things in the videos, are jumping around saying things they didn't first go over.

The only thing people say or mention is they used it and how good it they are. Problem is no one is explaining HOW they're doing that, and how they're getting any starting information to even do anything.

The problem I have when people do this is the excuses people give to get out of having to explain anything about the basics

Awol's guide makes no sense for several reasons, for starters there is no explanation on how to read the guide itself. The little section at the beginning of the book that is supposed to breakdown what things are is still missing a ton of basic instructions. For example the maps in AWOL'S guide will show a town and things in it, but fails to explain where in the town those things are. As far as you know the stores could be in town 8 miles away from the trail head. The maps also do not denote what side of the town on the map is North, South, East, West. You simply have no idea.

Unless you have every single area of the entire trail memorized, I don't see how anyone is able to set up any resupply points using this guide. Even though there are millage on the side, that doesn't help anyone because you still would have absolutely no idea where you are in conjunction to a town or how far away you are. The only way that would be possible is if you already have it memorized.

AWOL'S guide is useless to a first timer like myself. There is too many unexplained aspects that you have to know, in order to have the guide be helpful.

The apps are even more of a mess. Far out has no instructions it doesn't even explain how to navigate through the interface or explain what any of the icons are, there is no mention of what features are in the app, never mind hwot to actually do anything with them. The company that made the app, expects people who get it to already have some extreme and vast understanding and know how of how phones work not taking into consideration that isn't a valid comment. The company is still supposed to explain what their product has in it, how to access it and how to use it. They need to stop expecting people who have a phone to know how to use something just because they have a phone.
Well I have a phone and 100% in the dark about pretty much all of it. Personally phones are extremely limited to what they can do.

I'll use gmail as the example of what I'm talking to show people just how bad this is for someone like myself, When I open gmail on a computer, All the options that make gmail usable are right there on the screen at the top left, I can see spam, trash, inbox..etc...But when I open GMAIL on a mobile device, the options that show up on a computer, simply aren't there on a mobile device, and I don't mean some of them either, I mean all of them there isn't even a compose option. Furthermore I see strange words like primary. PRIMARY??? I'm sorry but WTH does primary mean. That word doesn't belong in GMAIL because it's not in the computer version.

Google doesn't even have the courtesy to have a basic user manual for gmail. Everyone always starts saying to do things or open some screen they didn't explain how they got to or what they're even talking about. They just say it as if everyone knows what they're talking about.

Apparently apps are the same way, there are no actual instructions that will help someone that doesn't know anything about a phone to be able to use any of this stuff.

BTW this post is coming from someone who for a year had no idea a phone had a brightness option. The screen went dim and I just thought that's how it was I only found out about it when someone asked to borrow my phone and asked me why is the screen so dark, I replied phones don't have a brightness option so I didn't think to mention it, I thought people accepted that and just dealt with it. For 3 years I didn't know you could even close screens. I had to shut the phone off to close the screen. To this day I still have no idea what SCAN a QR code means because every time I open my camera and take a picture of it, nothing happens I wind up with a bunch of pictures of QR codes in my gallery.

People like me cannot even ask anything because we aren't being told what exists to ask and so there is no possible way to know what exists in order to ask. We just assume if a phone does something, then that's just how it is and people just deal with it.

my point to this is, all these apps and guide books need to have an actual video by the makers going over every single little thing that is in them, show how to access them, then give an example of it's use and they need to stop throwing things out with no instructions and using it's 2023 so that means everyone should know. Its infuriating

[Matt_C]

I legitimately do not understand anything about what the farout app (AKA GUTHOOK) can do or how to access anything in it. All the videos about this app are always skipping ahead not showing the way they are getting to the screens or what they're doing to get there but saying to go do something.

[Slow Trek]

Awol has a hike guide on the website that is very helpful for planning resupply stops. I don't know what to tell you about using the guide,works for me.

[Starchild]

I have done some long distance hikes where I needed a guide book. Each time it's a learning curve to figure out how each author's system works, and it usually starts out like you stated. Till I figure it out then I understand and appreciate why it's done that way.

AWOL's guide was the golden standard that took the crown from another guide (I forget the name) back when I thru hiked in 2013. His guide book was simpler and gave the information in a very intuitive way. However as time went on and revisions came about, more was added, so it's simplicity became more complicated, but also contained more info.

My suggesting is sit with it, and perhaps use it with a map even google maps, to reference each other till it clicks. Then go hike the AT.

[HankIV]

With all due respect, if you need detailed instructions on these items, you probably should stray very far into the woods anyway.

You seem to wear your lack of modern technology as a badge of honor. There are valid reasons to do so; there’s a lot of bull**** out there. But if you’re going to go that route it isn’t fair to get infuriated with the consequences.

Nobody is going to make the instructions you want because there are too few potential beneficiaries. However you might check your local community college, mine offers courses for issues such as those you express. I suspect the main benefit of such a class would be to make you realize you won’t break the device or software by fiddling with it, and arouse in you some curiosity to do so.

[chknfngrs]

OP has recently joined this website, for what it’s worth. Or, FWIW.

[Traveler]

There are a great number of different electronic devices in use across the US that create some technology issues for app developers to try and foresee or respond to. Many times the issue is with user technology that has to upgrade to experience the app product as designed. If using a Nokia Flip Phone one may not have the same level experience with an app as an iPhone 17 will (or vice versa). But, there are work arounds for the technologically challenged, recharging anxiety and/or foggy memory.

The traditional and best known is a map, compass and basic orientation skills (which can be easily found on the internet) to figure out position or route. I would recommend the ATC Appalachian Trail Guide for planning purposes and use their sectional maps when on trail, which are a good light weight and inexpensive means to check one's course and position.

To find specific stores or town attractions there is a huge amount of first hand knowledge among the hiking community one can ask of those either on their way into or coming out of a town. This is the way long distance trekking has been done over the decades with the move to electronics making specific information more broad and accessible. I typically use the Trail Guide to find resupply and tend other off trail errands to plan resupply trips prior to starting out, using the hiking community to provide some real-time answers about vendors in town. Its a common conversation along the way and typically will bring out electronic aids you can look at as well without having to worry about power and device issues.

[gpburdelljr]

Sounds like what IT guys call a PICNIC problem. Problem In Chair Not In Computer.

[HankIV]

OP has recently joined this website, for what it’s worth. Or, FWIW.

Yes, will be interesting to see where this goes.

[Majortrauma]

Excellent point Hank!! Ill get the popcorn and beer. Can't wait to see how fast this thread derails.
And I echo gpburdelljr comment.

[rhjanes]

One of the paper guides is on sale for the 2024 year, right now. It comes in Unbound version (includes a heavy duty plastic bag to keep it in) which is what you want for the hike. Only take the few hundred miles ahead of you, no reason to carry all of it. It comes in a Bound version, which is what you want for planning and to leave at Home-Base for your support people. And there is a PDF version to download to your smart phone.

Far Out does take some playing with. I'd suggest you go to the FarOut web site and watch their video's. Sometimes you have to pause them and watch a few times. Also, if there is a trail on FarOut near you, download that. Then you can be close to home and yet go hike and get used to the app. Link to the FarOut "how to". https://faroutguides.com/app-basics/

You can also choose to forget all the apps and guide books. In some of your postings on other sites you seem to say you plan to minimize time in towns. You can purchase good old paper maps for the trail. Then go to a sporting goods store and buy a $12 Base Plate navigating compass. Find a Orienteering Club near you. I've been doing the sport of Orienteering for some 15 years. We get VERY complex on land navigating, more than you will ever need on a trail. Our club teaches a "how to" class at every meet we do. We will even loan you a compass and our meet fees are low, like $12 and $15 for a few hours out in the woods. Sign up for the "White" course. It will be simple navigating on major trails at the park (city, scout, State Park, national park). Once you've done one or two White courses, try the "Yellow" course. It won't be on just main trails. Your course might route you down a main trail, you have to find the second minor trail, follow that. It intersects a water channel, follow that uphill to the next minor trail. All along you will be finding the controls that the course setter left out. You will be land navigating with a map and compass. Skills you can use on the trails. The advanced courses (Orange, Brown, Green, Red and ...OMG BLUE) you won't ever need those skills on any hiking trails. Those courses are long and if you are on a trail at all, it is because you believe your "Route Choice" was faster to jog/run the trail than to be cutting cross country, over hill and down ravens, to reach your next control location. That said, if you find yourself off-trail and getting confused (Inchworm comes to mind) you could use some advance land-nav skills.

Then when you get to town, you can just walk the main street or go into an eating establishment and ask your waitperson where the supermarket is, the post office, a place to stay (Be it a hostel, a budget motel). If it is a town used to hikers, someone will even know stuff like "well the church lets you shower and pitch a tent in their back for a $10 donation".

Best of luck on your 2025 hike.


(and since I'm a donating member, I just edited this post)

[johnnybgood]

And yet so many people navigated the trail before technology.... but seriously, reach out to a local outfitter or hiking club, ask about map/compass skill courses.

Buy a decent $20 compass and check out a local outdoor club for information on workshops coming up in your area.

[TwoSpirits]

Stick around Whiteblaze and you'll pick up a lot of knowledge about the trail. I've lurked and learned a great deal -- including *how* to learn the things I've needed to learn. There are tremendous resources right here,all for the asking.

[Matt_C]

With all due respect, if you need detailed instructions on these items, you probably should stray very far into the woods anyway.
You seem to wear your lack of modern technology as a badge of honor. There are valid reasons to do so; there’s a lot of bull**** out there. But if you’re going to go that route it isn’t fair to get infuriated with the consequences.

It isn't fair to me that companies put things out and then never even mention even the slightest basic instructional aspect So I have every right to get infuriated with this, and for people to defend companies that pull this makes me even more infuriated. This crap of people saying didn't you try (Insert whatever) or didn't you try that (Insert whatever) are the dumbest questions to ask..NO on one tried anything because the company that made the product didn't say anything about trying anything or how. So unless that point blank say something can be done, then anyone taking it upon themselves to sta5rt messing around is a troll. When I open up an app or program, without an instruction saying what i have to do, I do nothing because how am I supposed to know if anything even can be done..people always try to argue the company doesn't need to tell you anything, which leads me to say then you wouldn't be able to go ahead and attempt to do anything because you don't know what is even possible. Company has to provide instructions on what to do once it's opened up and give you a demonstration as to what ti do in order to start being able to check it out

Nobody is going to make the instructions you want because there are too few potential beneficiaries.

All the blame shifting and excuse making with people such as yourself is incredible. It's as if you don't seem to be able to understand very simple concepts, the company that makes a product is required to explain how to use it. You like many others always make invalid points and bring up irrelevant statements. A company that doesn't explain it's product is there in liable for anything that happens to someone while attempting to use their product. There is no valid excuse/reason/justification for putting something out and then never bothering to explain anything about it.

However you might check your local community college, mine offers courses for issues such as those you express. I suspect the main benefit of such a class would be to make you realize you won’t break the device or software by fiddling with it, and arouse in you some curiosity to do so.[/QUOTE]
Except that doesn't apply because with no instructions there is nothing to try out or test. It's exactly as I explained above with gmail, the mobile version cannot be used because the options required in order to do anything with it, don't exist. If the options are there when the computer version is opened, then the options also need to be there when the mobile version is opened.


When i open gmail on my computer I can use options, when I open gmail on a mobile device there are no options to do anything with, I just sit there looking at the screen waiting for some form of instructions letting me know if anything can be done and how to do it. Since google doesn't provide that info, then no one is going to tell me they're using gmail on a mobile device. What you said about There isn't anything to even try once you open it in a mobile device. If i'm supposed to know to attempt something, then I have to be told,

I have done some long distance hikes where I needed a guide book. Each time it's a learning curve to figure out how each author's system works, and it usually starts out like you stated. Till I figure it out then I understand and appreciate why it's done that way.

There isn't anything to figure out because you have to be given a direct instruction that something can even be done first before saying you are messing around which doesn't make any sense to say.
So I'm going to call you on that one because there is no possible way you could have done any of that without someone who was involved in the making of the guide to sit down with you and go over how to actually read it. Unless that did that no one has any information to work with in order to bee able to understand it. That guide requires someone involved in the making of it to explain it.

Sounds like what IT guys call a PICNIC problem. Problem In Chair Not In Computer.

yes because the utter lack of instruction letting a consumer know a baseline so the consumer can start knowing if they can even do anything once the program has been opened
Well IT guys are delusional, have a complex, and don't live in the real world. Their mentality is because they know something, then everyone knows it. There is no logic or any type of common sense thinking with that crowd.

My original point still stands about utter lack of instruction.

As I said above, as usual the only thing people keep saying, is they guide is good and they used it, yet aren't explaining how they used it, and exactly what they're doing with it which categorizes them as baseless claims filled with nonsense.

[illabelle]

Matt C,
I can't help you with the specifics of how to navigate various electronic apps on a phone. I can tell you that you don't need them to have a successful hike. I sympathize with your frustration, but I'd suggest to you to find the tools that work for you and have a go at it. We hiked the trail over ten years with a 2013 print version of AWOL (even though it was several years out of date by the time we finished) and a set of maps. The AWOL guide has a ton of phone numbers. If I needed to arrange a food drop, shuttle, hostel reservation, I called. The little town maps weren't the best, but they were adequate.
Good luck with your hike.

[HankIV]

Do you think a pencil, or a loaf of bread should come with instructions? How about a dictionary?

If you don’t like the way the world works, I suggest you go live someplace else. Please.

[CalebJ]

Except that doesn't apply because with no instructions there is nothing to try out or test. It's exactly as I explained above with gmail, the mobile version cannot be used because the options required in order to do anything with it, don't exist. If the options are there when the computer version is opened, then the options also need to be there when the mobile version is opened.
When i open gmail on my computer I can use options, when I open gmail on a mobile device there are no options to do anything with, I just sit there looking at the screen waiting for some form of instructions letting me know if anything can be done and how to do it. Since google doesn't provide that info, then no one is going to tell me they're using gmail on a mobile device. What you said about There isn't anything to even try once you open it in a mobile device. If i'm supposed to know to attempt something, then I have to be told,
There isn't anything to figure out because you have to be given a direct instruction that something can even be done first before saying you are messing around which doesn't make any sense to say.
So I'm going to call you on that one because there is no possible way you could have done any of that without someone who was involved in the making of the guide to sit down with you and go over how to actually read it. Unless that did that no one has any information to work with in order to bee able to understand it. That guide requires someone involved in the making of it to explain it.
yes because the utter lack of instruction letting a consumer know a baseline so the consumer can start knowing if they can even do anything once the program has been opened
Well IT guys are delusional, have a complex, and don't live in the real world. Their mentality is because they know something, then everyone knows it. There is no logic or any type of common sense thinking with that crowd.
My original point still stands about utter lack of instruction.
As I said above, as usual the only thing people keep saying, is they guide is good and they used it, yet aren't explaining how they used it, and exactly what they're doing with it which categorizes them as baseless claims filled with nonsense.

Let's try this all over again.

Instead of calling others delusional, etc - why not ask a specific question?

For example, you said you don't know how to compose an email from the mobile Gmail app. I don't have an iPhone handy, but on my Android there is a gray button overlayed on the app at the lower right with a pencil and 'Compose' label. The 'Primary' section of the app displays general emails, whereas Promotions and Social break out messages that the system anticipates are relevant to those specific categories.

So - what questions do you have?

[Alligator]

The topics presented are a bit broad. This is a hiking website, so please stick to hiking topics please like the AWOL's guide and hiking apps of interest. Better even to start specific threads for those individually. I don't have a copy of AWOL's guidebook to address your concern specifically. I can say however, that guidebooks across hobbies can many times require some effort to understand in terms of layout, symbology, and general use. Generally, some practice with a guide usually starts to resolve some of these issues. I don't know how good the maps are in AWOL but if the streetnames are on it and the streets are placed in relative position correctly, that's usually somewhat informative as to where the business is. Of course there are good maps and bad maps.

I will echo what some others have said and that you don't need an app or guidebook to hike on the AT. A paper map, a compass, and some general experience hiking all would help much more than a guidebook or app that you are unfamiliar with. Experience with your shelter, pack, cooking system, and shoes are a much better start than knowing where the resupply is. I don't use the Far Out app either although I am aware it provides useful trail information such as campsites and water sources plus other things. Thousands and thousands of people have done just fine along the trail however without an app or even a guidebook for that matter. Both of those can be useful for long distance hiking of course.

There is however a limited market for guidebooks and apps. It takes tremendous effort to assemble the information in those and choices will be limited as it is simply not profitable to do many times.

[JNI64]

Do you think a pencil, or a loaf of bread should come with instructions? How about a dictionary?

If you don’t like the way the world works, I suggest you go live someplace else. Please.

Concur with this response. Please.

[Daybreak]

Guides are the details not the how to. Although some guides help, for the most part they provide the raw detail and simple analysis of that data. More later

To hike the AT, you need to think about splitting it up into manageable chunks of 3 to 5 days. You can hike these chunks in any order or timeframe of your choosing. You can backpack, or day hike them. If you day hike them as part of an effort to completely hike the trail, this is commonly called slackpacking. It is not a derogatory term. The vast majority who completely hike the trail will slackpack at least some of the trail. Many slackpack most of the trail. Slackpacking puts less impact on the trail since you are camping less.

After you have acquired the skills and equipment to safely backpack or hike the trail in weather conditions you expect and with understanding of Leave no Trace then can you start to plan. There are a lot of resources to help you learn these skills. But you have railed about planning.

To help you plan, you should look for information on how to plan a thru hike. This site has lots info available. Check out the various forums and buttons at the top of the screen. Look in the articles forum. Peruse questions over the last several years. Google it and look other websites, and books. There are entire books and video series devoted to planning.

Generally your 3-5 day chunks are broken up by where you want to resupply. This is a little rambling coming up. It really needs a book. If you buy as you go, you need to resupply at different places than if you take on the massive job of assembling boxes of food to be mailed to you. If you mail food, you can avoid most hitching and resupply pills and many things you need in small amounts. The guidebooks list resupply options. Many websites list them also and give typical and best spots. But you have to make the decision based how many miles you hike per day and how many days you want to be out. Post offices are closed on Sat afternoon and sometimes Sat. morning and Sunday. Hostels come and go each year. Hitching is easy and more often required for buy as you go but you get more variety and no worries about post offices. If you buy as you go, You only have to plan the next segment and can adjust food preferences, amount etc. as you but has other issues. This a big decision to make before you use the guidebooks. Lots of info on the web and on how to hike the AT and planning books and here. Look around. Trial and error.

So you have decided to hike say Georgia. The guidebooks give you detailed information.

1. Databook. This is mile by mile data showing where all the shelters, campsites and water. Most to all of the trail intersections with other trails, roads and landmarks along with elevation. There is a key somewhere. Find it. Figure it out. Ask a specific question. Most are similar. This data is the Appalachian trail databook published by the ATC but it is also included in the apps, on many websites and guidebook. You need to have a copy of this as you hike either on paper, electronic (stored in your phone, camera, electronic book) or from an app. Remember your phone will not connect in a lot ME and a few other places. I strongly suggest you go paper. This also includes where and how far away hostels, post offices, groceries... are. Since you have AWOL, look at the data for Georgia and figure it out. Go mile by mile until you understand it and don't have to refer to the key.

2. Elevation charts. AT maps which some people bring, I did, include an elevation strip. These show graphically what the day is going to be like with the elevations from the databook charted out. Many people don't bring maps. These are not used for pre hike planning. To start the trail you might plan on 10 mile averages but adjust it daily depending on where there are campsites and shelters along with how difficult the trail is and many other variables.

3. Map and written info. Depending on the source, there is written info for everything in the databook but especially hostels, outfitters, where you can get food, fuel meals ... along with a map where needed. For the most part, every location mentioned in the town is on the map or noted with an arrow and mileage how far off the map. How far is the town? The databook tells you how far the po, grocery store, meals, hostel... is. These are small towns. Typically one main road and occasionally two. There is no need for North, it is a distraction. If you get dropped off the PO. You find it on the map and orient from there duh. On one end of the map, there is an arrow pointing to the trail. When you get out of the car it is the direction you came from. Look at some towns near you. Compare the maps with google.

4. Hiking Apps You are not ready for them. But why are they great, they allow you to go online during your hike and do everything you do now anywhere well almost. All the data above is available without the paper but also you can now connect to find out info about where water drops are, where springs have dried up, connect with other hikers. They also allow you to interact the GPS on your phone with maps. They replace some to a lot of the info. that used be left and read in trail shelters and discussed between hikers. Some still is but more people bury themselves in phone to keep up with the outside world or connect with fellow hikers. Many call family everyday. Few could do this in 1999, Many still didn't do this in 2004. Now a simple flip phone is required as pay phones have disappeared.