Mileage in the Whites

[Horned Frog]

I'm a section hiker and I have completed Springer to Hanover, NH.

I typically hike at 2 MPH and do about 18 miles a day.

I have been told that my pace and mileage will be cut in half when I reach the Whites.

My question is where exactly I should expect to experience this dramatic drop in pace/mileage (going NOBO)?

In particular, I am considering doing Hut stays to lower my pack weight and I am wondering whether I should plan to stop and overnight at every other Hut, or whether I should plan to hit each Hut.

My next section will likely be Hanover to Gorham.

Thanks in advance, and if this has already been discussed before and there are threads setting out good hut to hut itineraries, please let me know.

[Gambit McCrae]

This is a fun subject for me due to having direct experience of NOT decreasing my mileage and the negative impact it had on my trip. I started like you in Hanover, NH.

I first started seeing difficulty up smarts mountain, its a tough dude. after that was Mooselauke, another tough one. I would say keep your expectations of 18mpd from Hanover, NH to South side of smarts or Mooselauke. From Mooselauke (at the furthest) north all the way thru Grafton Notch, ME daily mileage should be cut in half. And we all have had to weigh going over or under our expected daily mileage for logistics reasons, in this section choose the lower mileage option if you have to make the choice.

Example:
My MPD is 20. From Moose to Grafton I cut that to 10 MPD. But if I had a day where I either had to go 8 miles or 15 miles I would choose the 8.

I did pull a 20 in the whites, from Zealand falls hut area(stealthed) sobo to Franconia. It was an AT bucket list item to do a 20 in every state.

[Kaptainkriz]

Gambit is dead on. When I did these sections I did hut to hut and really enjoyed it. I also leveraged the joe dodge lodge and AMC Highland center. Booking 5 stays resulted in a discount and being an AMC member saved more than membership cost.

[Horned Frog]

Gambit is dead on. When I did these sections I did hut to hut and really enjoyed it. I also leveraged the joe dodge lodge and AMC Highland center. Booking 5 stays resulted in a discount and being an AMC member saved more than membership cost.

Thanks. I have not slackpacked before, but I'm thinking about doing a couple of slack pack days and then the huts, saving myself the weight of a tent and cooking gear, etc. I think I will enjoy it much more without the weight, especially the climbs and descents that require hands.

How does this no-camping itinerary sound:
Day 1: Travel to Glencliffe NH and stay at Hikers Welcome Hostel
Day 2: Slack NOBO from NH 25A back to the Hostel, 1788 to 1798
Day 3: Slack SOBO Kinsman Notch to the Hostel, 1807 to 1798
Day 4: NOBO from Kinsman Notch to Lonesome Lake Hut [is this doable in a single day?] 1807 to 1820
Day 5: Lonesome Lake to Greenleaf (1830)
Day 6: Greenleaf to Galehead (1836)
Day 7: Galehead to Zealand Fall (1843)
Day 8: Zealand Fall to Mizpah Spring (1857)
Day 9: Mizpah Spring to Lake of the Clouds (1862)
Day 10: LOC to Mt. W then blue blaze down Tuckerman Ravine Trail to Joe Dodge Lodge (4 mile day)
Day 11: Travel home

Any modifications you would suggest?

[HankIV]

Gambit is spot on as always, and Kaptainkriz as well. I used huts in 2021, SOBO. Great decision. Was intimidated by the stories, and being older wanted to give myself some cushion, both for my age and for weather. Also wanted to take my time through what many claim to be the best scenery on the trail. All pretty valid. However the Whites are not ALL vertical, there are some "cruisey" sections along the ridges. And yes, you can drop a lot of weight using the huts; most of your food, stove, tent. Would probably still bring an emergency tarp that you could burrito up in. And rain pants, for hypothermia weather, which I encountered in July.

As to your itinerary, your mile markers seem off from my FarOut, but distances seem on target. Looks good overall, couple suggestions below FWIW.

Day 2--very easy. If Hikers Welcome would drop you 5 miles further south at Jacobs Creek, you'd go over Mt Cube which has nice open rock and views at the top. Would still be reasonable for an 18mile/day hiker, esp slack packing.
Day 3--stiff climb up to Beaver Brook shelter but not tough after. Beautiful climb along the stream. If you are doing this on a day the Greenhouse Restaurant on 25C is open, that is a fun lunch stop, .25 N of the crossing. Very hiker friendly.
Day 4-- Mt Wolf is tougher than it looks on profile, and the Kinsmans are tough. If you were willing to eat stoveless a night and morning, and gamble on shelter space, Kinsman Pond shelter would knock this day back to 11 miles, although the last 2 miles are not tough.
Day 5--very doable, even if you stay at Kinsman Pond. Be sure to add in the mile (and 1,000 down!) to Greenleaf
Day 6--good plan, esp with the extra mile
Day 7--this is a pretty easy day, even with the stiff climb up South Twin in the morning. But Zealand Falls is a fun place to stop; I had booked it but considered asking to transfer my res and push to Galehead when I arrived at 1pm. But it started to rain and they have a great porch for reading, and plenty of books. Glad I did.
Day 8--this one will pay you back for the easy day before. The first 7 from Zealand are very easy and cruisy, but the climb up from Crawford is a bear. But once you get to Mt Jackson it levels back off. A fine day
Day 9--Mizpah to Lake of the Clouds is a pretty easy 5 miles. You could probably make the push to Madison Spring Hut, for a 12 miler, as long as you don't let the Mt Washington cafe vortex suck you in. The climb up and down from Mt Washington is pretty well graded.
Day 10--Now take the AT down to Joe Dodge, about a 7 mile day.

[LazyLightning]

I averaged 10 mpd overall including zeros, probably 12-13 average on hiking days only. If I got over 5 miles per day in the Whites it was a good day. I may have broke 10 miles one day, would have to check my journal. This was true from Mooselauke into the Mahoosuc's in ME.

[Astro]

Gambit is dead on. When I did these sections I did hut to hut and really enjoyed it. I also leveraged the joe dodge lodge and AMC Highland center. Booking 5 stays resulted in a discount and being an AMC member saved more than membership cost.

Same here, not cheap, but a good investment in the big picture.

[HankIV]

I also used Highland Center and Joe Dodge. I'd probably skip the Highland Center if I could; I couldn't figure out the bus/shuttle so hitched, which meant I walked most of the way about 1.5 miles before someone picked me up for the last 1/2 mile. They do have great buffet dinner and breakfast, and unlike the huts, hot showers. Just a pain to get to. Joe Dodge also has those things and is right on trail.

If you've been working your way north in sections, you've definitely saved the best for last. From Smarts Mountain north the trail takes on different looks and gets wilder. Even when you get lower down and back in the green tunnel, it has a different character than points south. Enjoy.

Roan Highlands, the Whites and a few spots in Southern Maine were the places I used sunscreen and was glad to have a hat for SPF.

Also, just be aware that the breakfast and dinner times are a one time seating; I think 7am and 6pm each.

[Daybreak]

Thoughts

Hut to Hut hiking is not the same as slackpacking. Although you get to lighten your load, you still need sleeping gear and all weather hiking gear. You are out for a much longer time and don't go back to town every night. You don't get to choose the gear based a daily forecast.

Sobo over Moosilauke is a great choice. The north side is steep but can be slippery when wet. It is best ascended rather than descended. You'll have less total elevation gain. The initial climb the next day north out Kinsman's Notch will warm you up even quicker.

The problem going to Lonesome Lake is that you are combining hut to hut with a longer more difficult hike and your concern is real. I would not count on shelter space at Kinsman Pond particularly if arriving late and with bad weather. On my thrus, arriving late at Eliza Brook meant tenting with 10 other tents. At Kinsman Pond, someone saved me a spot in the large shelter but it was packed with a 30+ mix of adults and kids. I chose to take the last tenting spot. If you are hiking after Labor day, there is likely to be more room. Even going hut to hut, I might bring a bivy sack. Consider backpacking that section to either EB or KP. Mail extra stuff home from N. Woodstock.

Calculate the elevation gain/miles compared to your other hard days. An old White Mountain guide gives a 4500' gain and 2600' drop to Kinsman Junction near the shelter (11.5 mi, 8hrs) with parts of it rough and others steep while it is another 200' up and 1200' drop to Lonesome Lake(~ 1hr). These are typically conservative times. Only you know how you do on the hardest of days. Katahdin is about 4200' up and 4200' down and 8 miles round trip per postholer. I would be more concerned about this section than skipping Lakes. How early can you start, some places are real early with fixed times, others are not. Skipping Mt. Cube gives you an easier day before you start two climbing days. Bring some comfort food in case of need. Either you'll enjoy it somewhere or feed it to the wild thru-hikers. That section can be tough with rough trail but I don't remember hand to hand.

Family style dinner starts at 6pm. Although breakfast starts at 7am, it may be extended with Croo skits... This limits your hiking time so plan accordingly.

Beware of bad weather while crossing the summit areas. In July, I've experienced a windy, cold, drizzle from Mizpah to Mt. Washington with ice forming on the antennas. Also, a 6+ inch deep stream on the trail in the flatlands past Zealand. Building extra time into the schedule (as you have) gives you more flexibility but may require you to soak up the sun, take in the views, or hang out on the porch. I like to bring a White mountains map and pick out the peaks. Alternate or short trails let you summit Mt. Eisenhower and Monroe north of Mizpah. Some huts have guided nature hikes in the morning.

On any day of the week, but especially on weekends, the peaks and some porches will fill with people and most will be on their phones. The Mt. Washington summit building can be a zoo but has food and is warm. You'll want to be on Lafayette midweek.

You have effectively ended your AT at Lakes or the summit of Mt. Washington. You will need to reclimb it or schedule a shuttle up the road on your next section. Likewise, there are frequently seats available on the shuttle heading down. If you're not in the mood to hike or need/want to get down quicker this shuttle is a good option. A hitch late in day is also a possibility.

Although a great place to hang out, I would skip Lakes. Other than the elevation gain, the trail from Mizpah to Mt Washington is not particularly hard. The trail to Madison is not to be missed. It is mostly downhill or level. You can pause at Lakes and maybe pick up a snack, buy lunch at the summit, take a rest, and even pack out dinner if you might be late to Madison. You might check the policies or attitude toward late arrivals.

From Pinkham, it is an easy hitch to Gorham if you decide to stay there.

Or.... Backpack/slack from Hanover to N.Woodstock (route 3 /I93) then hut to hut to Gorham over Wildcat. This gives you a lighter load to climb Wildcat out of Pinkham and stay at the last hut. This is a steep long climb. I would much rather stay here than Lonesome Lake from a logistics point of view. Most thrus slack this last section based from Gorham but it is a hard 20 miles.

[peakbagger]

Do note, the shuttle up or down the autoroad costs money.

[Gambit McCrae]

After reading your plan, 3 thoughts come to mind...
1-Hiker welcome Hostel offers a slack option for your gear, they take your gear to the notch hostel while you hike over Mooselauke, when you arrive at the Notch Hostel your gear will be in the barn.

2- The Notch hostel offers a shuttle to a from the 16 mile slackpack over the kinsman's. This is a really tough day, even as a slackpack. I was a very strong hiker back then and I still missed the pickup shuttle at the end of the day, had to call a taxi back to the hostel as they will not wait on you.

3- It would greatly behoove you to terminate your hike at either the north or south end of Mt W. I foresee logistical issues for your next trip. I did Mt Washington as 2 slackpack days, both starting at the summit. 2 of the best days on AT I had, absolutely spectacular weather and it was during covid so I had the whites to myself.

[LittleRock]

I just did a section from Rutland, VT to Franconia Notch, NH with a friend in late September. From Springer to Hanover I averaged 12-15 mpd and below is my daily trip mileage for Hanover to Franconia Notch. Based on this initial section, I've set a mileage goal of 7-10 mpd for the rest of the Whites and southern ME.

Day 1 - Hanover, NH to Moose Mtn Shelter (10 miles). Really this was Day 5 since we started further south. Easy day, but we kept mileage low because we just resupplied, and we opted to carry an extra 3L of water 2 miles up to the shelter rather than chance it with the unreliable shelter source.
Day 2 - Moose Mtn Shelter to Smarts Mtn Shelter (12.5 miles). Much tougher than the previous day, lots of elevation change. The last mile up Smarts Mtn was especially steep. Definitely worth a stop at the fire tower.
Day 3 - Smarts Mtn Shelter to campsite 0.1 mi S of NH 25A (10 miles). Pretty easy day overall, down Smarts Mtn was easy, up Mt Cube was pretty tough (several boulder scrambles), down Mt Cube and the rest of the way to the campsite was easy. Very nice campsite, a little closer to the road than I like but noise level wasn't bad. Saw 2 bear cubs while crossing 25A the next morning.
Day 4 - Campsite 0.1 mi S of NH 25A to Hikers Welcome Hostel (10 miles). Easy peasy. Finished before 2 PM, plenty of time for shower and laundry, free ride to the local gas station to get fresh sandwich/salad for dinner.
Day 5 - Slackpack S over Moosilauke back to Hikers Welcome Hostel (10 miles). Best $25 I've spent on the AT. Beautiful day and Moosilauke wasn't hard at all with a 10 lb. pack. Took our time and still finished by 3 PM.
Day 6 - Kinsman Notch to Eliza Brook Shelter (7.5 miles). Some tough spots but not bad overall. Mt. Wolf is pretty rugged and the lack of a view was disappointing. Eliza Brook Shelter was very nice and we had it all to ourselves.
Day 7 - Eliza Brook Shelter to Franconia Notch (9 miles). South Kinsman was a tough climb. Lots of climbing straight up boulders, grabbing on to tree roots and anything you can for support. The last mile up from the bog took us 1 hr 10 min. After that it was easier, but still quite steep coming down North Kinsman until about a mile past Kinsman Pond Shelter. Last mile to Lonesome Lake Hut then down to Franconia Notch was fairly easy. We got a taxi ride into Lincoln and stayed at Chet's place, then took the bus to Boston/Logan to fly home the next day.

From my initial experience, the Whites were tough but not scary. Don't buy into all the fear mongering. Plan to go more slowly, sure, but you can do it!

One thing that REALLY helped me - I lost 15 lbs over the year before this trip, and I spent about 15 min every night starting about 9 months before doing wall sits, calf raises and other exercises to strengthen my lower body. It really paid off - I felt like I was in my 20's again!

[somers515]

I haven’t read all the posts in this thread but I just want to say I think 50% is probably over conservative. Of course I agree that the same amount of effort will not equal the same amount of mileage in the Whites but I think it’s more like a 30-40% drop. So if you were doing for example 12 miles per day outside of the Whites then plan for 7-8 miles in the per day in the Whites. If you were doing 20 miles per day before then 12-14 miles in the Whites would be reasonable. Hope this perspective is helpful. Happy hiking!

[jomo1983]

Perhaps the best trail advice I've ever gotten was from a fellow "vintage" section hiker at the Zealand Falls Hut. I was on night 1 of my section in the Whites, having hiked up from Crawford Notch that day. He said "You can't have an ego about mileage in the Whites." Later on he punctuated that point by saying, "Five miles here is ten anywhere else." He was soooo right. They aren't called The Mighty Whites for no reason.

[Deadeye]

I plan on 8-10 MPD in the Whites and northern half of the Long Trail. I'll go further if I want or stop early if I must. I'd rather chill in my hammock for a while than hike at night to make the next camp.

What slows me down the most is the descents, and that might be age-related. Next is the footing - loose rocks, mud, roots, boulders, etc. - you just can't get a good pace or rhythm going.

[HankIV]

I haven’t read all the posts in this thread but I just want to say I think 50% is probably over conservative. Of course I agree that the same amount of effort will not equal the same amount of mileage in the Whites but I think it’s more like a 30-40% drop. So if you were doing for example 12 miles per day outside of the Whites then plan for 7-8 miles in the per day in the Whites. If you were doing 20 miles per day before then 12-14 miles in the Whites would be reasonable. Hope this perspective is helpful. Happy hiking!

Yeah, I fall in this camp. They are hard, but not impossible. 2/3’s is about right. Maybe more if you’re hut to hut and dropping weight out of the pack. 2 caveats, sometimes the weather will sure make you glad of planning a short day, and sometimes when the weather is nice, the scenery will make you glad you can take it easy.