(un)Packing Fears ~ Feeding Bears and Me (cannisters)

[Kittyslayer]

Well the Three Bears could have kept Goldilocks out of their porridge by locking the door to their house. I want to keep the Three Bears and their furry woodland friends out of my oatmeal and ramen noodles. Since I throw like a girl (or worse) I have been practicing bear bagging at home. We have the perfect tree in the front yard so I am sure it has been entertaining for my neighbors. On my training hikes I have been looking at trees for hanging in the woods on local trails and rarely find one tree that would allow the 6’ by 12’ criteria for a proper PCT hang. Researching it sounds like hikers spend 15+ minutes finding an appropriate tree and getting their bag hung every night and very few carry a bear can.

I think I have resigned myself to carrying a bear cannister. For the 2# penalty it just seems like it removes a high stress task of hanging a bag on a daily basis and lets me sleep worry free. That said, I don’t see many other AT hikers carrying cans. Am I crazy or do I just need to go see a baseball coach?

[Cabinfvr]

I am seeing more carry the can and I hear there are plans to require them in certain sections. I am on the fence with them. Currently planning on hanging. One thing that may change my mind is using it as a seat. I love that added luxury to the can.

[Time Zone]

w/r/t PCT bear hangs, try tossing it underhand. At your age you might remember Rick Barry, NBA player who shot free throws underhanded. Once known as "granny style". He had a remarkably high success % and attributed it to, among other things, a better angle for the ball entering the hoop. This better angle also works when getting a throw bag just over a branch, but not far over it. Once you clear the branch with your underhanded toss (which itself is easier to do underhanded, I found), it drops much more straight down. Prior to trying this, I struggled, as well, with an overhand toss. And I could throw footballs and baseballs overhanded decently. But this was a different thing, and I found underhanded worked much better (once I finally gave up and tried it).

I agree, bear cans feel like an inevitable requirement coming down the road. However, if there are some well-publicized failures, and an increasing rate of them, then maybe that'll lead to some reconsideration. Not that I'm rooting for that, but it sure doesn't sound like there's only ever been one bear to figure out a given bear can.

[LoneStranger]

Started using a can on most all trips a few years back to simplify things. Time saver plus instant place to sit. Do what works for you.

[HankIV]

It’s rare to find a perfect tree, and common to end up coming into camp tired at dusk when finding the least bad option is hard enough, and then hanging in the dark even more so.

I used an Ursack, with Opsacks and had no problems. I guess there are cases of failure out there. When available I still made use of bear boxes, poles or cables.

[peakbagger]

Cans are now required in the whites.

[Mockernut]

I mostly carry one now I the Southeast. I do feel like my big fat pack gets smug looks from the ultralight crowd even when my base weight is in the teens. Hard to pack that big ol can in an ultralight pack so I end up with my Osprey Aether most times.

[chknfngrs]

Cans take out nearly all the work at the weight penalty of two extra pounds.

[HooKooDooKu]

When I did a thru hike of the JMT, bear canisters were required. I used a Wild Ideas Bearikade bear canister. Loved how easy they were to operate and they are a little lighter than comparable sized Bear Vault. They were even easier to deal with than having to bother with bear cables like they have in Great Smoky Mountains National Park.

[Daybreak]

It’s rare to find a perfect tree, and common to end up coming into camp tired at dusk when finding the least bad option is hard enough, and then hanging in the dark even more so.
... When available I still made use of bear boxes, poles or cables.

Agree. This is my experience on all three major trails. Who really gets the bottom of the bag 12 feet off the ground using a "PCT" hang? and yes an underhand throw is the way to go. Even with a traditional hang, you are looking for a tree limb whose top is 18-20 feet off the ground. Luckily when I hiked bear boxes, poles, and cables were available in the worst bear areas and canisters were otherwise not required. On the AT at that time you could always hang your food in a shelter. Fyi, I've had a critter jump from a tree to my bag on a greased pole. Some bear boxes are not mouse proof.

My first encounter with a bear was at Philmont Boy Scout camp. Our crew came across another crew at the edge of a field. Together we watched a bear enjoying army surplus peanut butter that had been ripped out of a frame pack. The pack had been unattended during a break and had been claimed by the bear. The bear was oblivious to the 16 or so onlookers. While hiking, I keep my pack with me at all times especially on potty breaks. Besides bears, I don't like the idea of someone stealing my pack or my valuables. Likewise, if I take an unplanned scenic side hike, I want to have my pack with me.

[Daybreak]

Cans are now required in the whites.

The only order I could find is dated 2019 which technically requires backpackers, hut users and day hikers to use cans if carrying any food.

Official Text of the USFS White Mountain National Forest Food Storage Order (R9-22-19-19)
The following is prohibited forest-wide:

1. Except while being prepared and consumed, all food, food containers and refuse shall be stored in a closed motor vehicle or suspended at least twelve (12) feet above the surface of the ground and not less than six (6) feet horizontally from any object. Bear boxes, bear canisters, or bear fences designed specifically for food and/or refuse storage are acceptable.
2. All refuse containing food materials or containers shall be deposited in receptacles provided for that purpose as soon as possible after the waste is created or stored in the manner prescribed for food in #1 above.

Although dated in 2019, I couldn't easily find this on any official website.
According to "Steve" (2023) according the WMNF office day hikers seem to be unofficially exempt but not overnighters (which would seem to include hut users and backpackers using bear boxes?).

Planning to hike Adams soon, so spoke with the WMNF offices and confirmed that although they omitted the “while being transported” exception listed in the original CFR, you are still permitted to carry food in a backpack (using common sense such as keeping items in their original sealed packaging or using ziplock bags) when day hiking- that is, not storing food when staying/camping overnight or when your backpack is not in your possession.

I don't think any of this is noted on AMC/ATC/WMNF websites. Is there is a subsequent order cancelling this? Are there signs at the trailheads? You can rent cans from "any ranger station or visitor center". To me it sounds like this is a hidden regulation that can be used to ticket almost anybody hiking in the forest.

Sources
https://sectionhiker.com/do-you-need...ite-mountains/
https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE...eprd644822.pdf

[Time Zone]

Daybreak, I'm getting a "server error" for your last link.

[CalebJ]

The only order I could find is dated 2019 which technically requires backpackers, hut users and day hikers to use cans if carrying any food.
Although dated in 2019, I couldn't easily find this on any official website.
According to "Steve" (2023) according the WMNF office day hikers seem to be unofficially exempt but not overnighters (which would seem to include hut users and backpackers using bear boxes?).



I don't think any of this is noted on AMC/ATC/WMNF websites. Is there is a subsequent order cancelling this? Are there signs at the trailheads? You can rent cans from "any ranger station or visitor center". To me it sounds like this is a hidden regulation that can be used to ticket almost anybody hiking in the forest.

Sources
https://sectionhiker.com/do-you-need...ite-mountains/
https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE...eprd644822.pdf

The way I interpret that 'official text' bit is that while not being prepared/consumed, it needs to be properly hung/stored in a closed vehicle/in a bear box/can/bear fence. So it's not requiring you to use a bear can, just giving that as an alternative to hanging.

Presumably you're exempt from the while while transporting the food, but that isn't really stated in the text.

[CalebJ]

Daybreak, I'm getting a "server error" for your last link.

The link opened properly for me, so I've uploaded it here.
fseprd644822.pdf

[peakbagger]

I had not seen any postings at trailheads until a couple of weeks ago. This notice was posted on the trailhead sign at Welch Dickey trailhead in Waterville Valley (the "Whites"). The FS was operating with limited staffing for the Covid summers and just getting back to full operations.
20230720_082859[1].jpg

Note, all the official campsites along the AT in the Whites have bear boxes (along with many but not all of the more popular sites). To date I have not seen any official interpretation of the notice versus the official text. I think most folks are working on the assumption that if they are dayhiking and carrying food without a bear can, that they will not be cited and expect if the FS did so, it would be challenged. Bear activity has increased in the whites significantly and got worse during the Covid summers as folks were still camping and hiking but FS and AMC staff in the backcountry was substantially diminished. !3 falls campsite in the Pemi has almost nightly bear activity during supper. The bear box was was rolled over by bears and the partially rusted out bottom was ripped out by bears.

[scope]

Started using a can on most all trips a few years back to simplify things. Time saver plus instant place to sit. Do what works for you.

Ditto

I do think I will add a bear bag to start hanging on some short trips where I am likely to have a log or such to sit on - to ditch the 2.2# can on those trips. The can tends to be a catch all for stuff I probably don't need, especially if only 2+ days of food, like a big pack.

[Wolfclan]

so if you are using a bear cannister, where do people put it at night? Do they still hang it or, leave it on the ground 200 feet from their tent?

[chknfngrs]

Walk it away from your camp, in a position where the bear (or other animal) would have a problem getting to it.

so if you are using a bear cannister, where do people put it at night? Do they still hang it or, leave it on the ground 200 feet from their tent?

[chknfngrs]

Meant to say also yes, on the ground ideally wedged under a log and not near a cliff

[Odd Man Out]

Here is an article by a well known/experienced backpacker explaining why hanging food is a bad idea and offering multiple alternatives

In other words you are not crazy.

https://andrewskurka.com/argument-ag...ging-bear-bag/