Question about self supported vs supported

[One Half]

I have pasted below the guidelines from the FKT website.

So a question came up in conversation with some hiking friends - would mail drops be considered supported or self-supported? Would it make a difference if you mailed all your own mail drops ahead of time or had someone send them?

Here's a few points that were made:
if you mail all your mail drops ahead of time, this would/should be considered self-supported as that option is "equally available to anyone else."

if you have someone mail them, would that be considered an option that is NOT "equally available to anyone else?" ie - no one willing to do it and this considered SUPPORTED?

Does ordering anything from Amazon or a vendor change your trek from self supported to supported? This option IS available to anyone else who can afford it. Wouldn't this be the same as "buying supplies along the way" which is part of being "self-supported?"




Self-Supported

Self-Supported means you may have as much support as you can manage or find along the way, but not from any thing or person just for you; any support you employ must be equally available to anyone else. This can range from caching supplies in advance, purchasing supplies along the way, staying at motels, to finding or begging for food or water; camping in a friends yard would be Supported, because that is not available to the public. Most long thru-hiking routes are done Self-Supported. To get a Self-Supported FKT you also have to beat the fastest Unsupported time. Spectating will be considered as Support starting February 4, 2021 (no previous FKT classifications will be changed).

Supported

Supported trips can have as much support means you can enlist, as long as you are entirely self-powered. This can range from one person handing you water once, to an entire team that accompanies you the whole distance giving you everything (except physical assistance). Whether it’s just once or continuously, any support at all means it’s a Supported trip. On longer routes, Supported can enable the fastest trips due to the ability to carry less weight. To get a Supported FKT you also have to beat the fastest Self-Supported and Unsupported times.

[Alligator]

This part has me wondering.

To get a Self-Supported FKT you also have to beat the fastest Unsupported time.

Are there three categories (Self-Support, Unsupported, Supported) or is Unsupported being (or has been?) redefined to Self-Supported? I don't follow it that closely. Unsupported is mentioned as a category but not defined as posted.

I'll take a stab at it though.

Mailing your own drops ahead of time or even as you travel along the way is you using a service that is available to everybody and not you specifically.

Someone mailing your mail drops for you is on YOUR support team, and not on EVERYONE's support team. That person is not available to everyone else.

I don't see ordering from Amazon or REI for instance as supported as anyone can order from them.

Here are two additional cases to consider:
1. How is ordering your groceries online for pickup considered?
2. How is ordering your groceries online for delivery to the trailhead considered?

Both are available to everyone.

#1 would be kind of funny. Do you go stand in the parking spot? Tell them the color of your backpack? Put everything but the candy in the main body compartment but could you put the candy in the top lid? Thanks!

[LoneStranger]

Unsupported doesn't need any more definition than you use what you brung. You are allowed to collect water, but no resupply. Not sure about eating berries along the trail, but no trail magic or yogi treats

I like the way they say you can't brag about your self supported FTK if you can't go faster than the unsupported record. Unsupported is still self supported after all, just harder.

[gpburdelljr]

I don’t understand the confusion. The wording seems pretty clear.

[Alligator]

Unsupported doesn't need any more definition than you use what you brung. You are allowed to collect water, but no resupply. Not sure about eating berries along the trail, but no trail magic or yogi treats

I like the way they say you can't brag about your self supported FTK if you can't go faster than the unsupported record. Unsupported is still self supported after all, just harder.

Thanks, now I remember. What was formerly unsupported on the AT is now labeled self-supported.

I don't usually start paying attention until it's about 10 days in or so or it's a repeat attempter.

[xMagnolia]

Heather "Anish" Anderson's book, Mud, Rocks, Blazes, does a great job showing a self supported FKT. I just finished it and it was excellent.

Charlotte

[One Half]

This part has me wondering. Are there three categories (Self-Support, Unsupported, Supported) or is Unsupported being (or has been?) redefined to Self-Supported? I don't follow it that closely. Unsupported is mentioned as a category but not defined as posted.

I'll take a stab at it though.

Mailing your own drops ahead of time or even as you travel along the way is you using a service that is available to everybody and not you specifically.

Someone mailing your mail drops for you is on YOUR support team, and not on EVERYONE's support team. That person is not available to everyone else.

I don't see ordering from Amazon or REI for instance as supported as anyone can order from them.

Here are two additional cases to consider:
1. How is ordering your groceries online for pickup considered?
2. How is ordering your groceries online for delivery to the trailhead considered?

Both are available to everyone.

#1 would be kind of funny. Do you go stand in the parking spot? Tell them the color of your backpack? Put everything but the candy in the main body compartment but could you put the candy in the top lid? Thanks!

As for the part about a self supported record needing to beat the unsupported record as well, I don't get that either. I actually looked at the website and there are self supported records that DO NOT beat the unsupported record BUT that may be because they made changes effective 2/4/22? So old records that don't necessarily conform but were previously conforming will stand until someone breaks them.
unsupported is carrying everything you need from the start, minus water. And yes, as it wasn't part of our discussion I left that definition out. Unsupported usually occurs on "shorter" trails like the Long Trail in VT.

I like your humor!