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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raid View Post
    Y'all are pretty harsh in your judgement. I mean, "Darwin Award was Interrupted..." and "LOL, yep still in the gene pool :-" are pretty cruel for a couple of people that made a mistake and had to call for help. If I read the story correctly, they walked back to their car and were uninjured. It may be a good object lesson, but I'm disappointed in the casual cruelty of the comments. As a community, we can be better.
    [/QUOTE]

    Nature can be far harsher in it's indifference that brings an old axiom to centerstage, "better to be mocked than mourned". Feelings are not facts. These two didn't walk out on their own, they clearly had little concept of what they were doing and their misadventure required a rescue team to risk life and limb to find and escort them out. That they were ambulatory is a nice end to a difficult rescue, their plight could have more easily turned into a recovery had a few more hours passed.

    We read stories about people who are totally unprepared for conditions they insist pursuing, many of them perish, some are miraculously rescued and brought to safety. "Not Without Peril" is a book anyone looking at hiking in the White Mountains should read that tell the tale of people who have died in those mountains, some having far more experience than most who made several decisions that individually could have been survived, but collectively doomed them as the chain of events leading to their demise was forged.

    There are reams of material to prepare for hiking in various conditions and terrain. Though I have never seen any material that recommends a day hike these two attempted in the Mahoosuc Mountains, in the dead of winter, without appropriate gear and provisions, I have to wonder if they even had matches. These are some of the most difficult mountains in the eastern United States in summer. In winter, even with snowshoes, trying to bust trail while negotiating high rock fall walls, unstable snow drifts that can bury a person, and blazes that quickly blend into the winterscape and can disorientate even the most expert of us, much like the proverbial Sirens calling sailors to their death. It is clear they did not understand what they were walking into. Much like the aviation community, the hiking community reviews these events to better understand how it occurred and how best to avoid a similar outcome. Sometimes there are caustic comments made. Eh, in the scope of the event that's pretty minor. Better to be mocked than mourned.

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    And that's with snowshoes. I've not read anywhere about whether or not they had them. "Without proper gear" implies this but it's not stated.

    If they were postholing without them, they would have been in seriously deep doo-doo. Even with snowshoes it's frequently hard to average over 1mph and sometimes it's much less. On one occasion it took 3 friends and me 6hr45min to travel 3.3 miles from Mt. Guyot to Zealand Hut in the Whites... with snowshoes, of course.
    Oh I assumed they had to have had snowshoes to get as far as they did. As you say, 1mph is doing pretty well with shoes going up and down mountains. Without they wouldn't have made the first summit. I figured the proper gear they were missing was camping gear to spend the night because almost no one is doing that traverse in one Winter day.
    “The man who goes alone can start today; but he who travels with another must wait until that other is ready...”~Henry David Thoreau

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  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    IMHO, Yes, If you have to call for a rescue and S&R folks need to respond to the site, its a rescue. S&R folks had to mobilize and that can be inherently risky. Granted the outcome was good, but no doubt in cold winter conditions the Incident commander had to assume that it could turn into a carryout. I would not be surprised if there may have been 20 or 30 S&R folks contacted to be ready to respond.
    Excellent narrative, Is it safe to assume the 20 or so rescuers represent several different agencies? If so, under the incident command system (ICS), unified command is established, in this particular case what agency becomes the IC?
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  4. #84

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    I am more familar with NH but the early years of North Woods law show Maine Game Wardens running rescues. They pull in wardens from other parts of the state to assist. There are volunteer rescue organizations that will be put on alert to assist. Ideally the volunteers are trained to a known standard. This link to MASAR that coordinates the 15 volunteer rescue groups may be of interest. I believe that Maine still has an interesting statute on the books that Wardens can compel members of the public to participate in a rescue. Probably left over from the days of lost hunter drills where a lot of people were needed to do area searches. I have not read the book but a private individual wrote about the effort to find Gerry Largey "inchworm" who got lost in the same area a few years back and ended badly that may have details. I remember at the time of the initial S&R that they relied on qualified volunteers as the terrain was gnarly and the wardens were concerned that the one S&R event could morph into multiple rescues if unqualified poorly equipped volunteers headed into the woods.

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Night Train View Post
    Excellent narrative, Is it safe to assume the 20 or so rescuers represent several different agencies? If so, under the incident command system (ICS), unified command is established, in this particular case what agency becomes the IC?
    Is your question perhaps imprecise? A unified command comprised of individuals from multiple agencies would act with one voice so no agency would be the IC. I wouldn't think this particular incident is large enough to merit that. Maybe something like a boat sinking or a train wreck. Probably would just use a single IC, but even then the IC could come from a different agency than the specific agency that might have jurisdiction. Depends on who shows up and who is available. I don't know with SAR but if a medical situation developed during the rescue, it might turn into an incident within an incident. Then you might have two IC's (but that's not really your question).
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  6. #86
    GSMNP 900 Miler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night Train View Post
    Excellent narrative, Is it safe to assume the 20 or so rescuers represent several different agencies? If so, under the incident command system (ICS), unified command is established, in this particular case what agency becomes the IC?
    Many years ago, a gentleman fell of Chimney Tops in Great Smoky Mountains while trying to film with his camcorder (just to give a clue of how long ago).
    After offering what assistance I could to the family and first responder, I started the two mile hike back down the mountain where I counted 21 rescue personnel (and a stretcher on a wheel) heading up the mountain.

    That story is also a get example of why you shouldn't even take a day hike without being prepared for an extended stay in the back country.
    I would estimate the accident occurred around 2:00 to 3:00, and took about an hour for the first responder to arrive.
    (Apparently someone had a cell phone, but WOW that was still quick given the drive PLUS a 2 mile hike with a 1,500' elevation gain).
    So it was 3:30 to 4:30 before I left the scene, the sun going down, and it was already starting to get chilly.
    The family didn't have any extra cloths (I believe I heard someone mention the teenage daughter had to take off her bra so so they had something to use as a bandage), and it was going to be well after dark before they were going to be getting back to the trail head.
    {BTW: I left the wife and daughter the Space Blanket and plastic poncho I always carried on day-hikes to help keep them warm}

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    So, how idiotic and irresponsible does someone have to be to earn your derision?
    LOL - I honestly don't know. I try to save my derision for those that are gratuitously unpleasant.
    "Waning Gibbous" would be a great trail name.

  8. #88

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    After a lifetime of hiking I also have harrowing stories to tell, most of which had nothing to do with experience level or gear carried. If you do this enough, you too will have stories to tell. But I've also seen competent climbers killed in the mountains. One fell through a cornice on a summit crowded with hikers, and one (called the best climber of his generation) was killed by a huge avalanche in China. It's the mountains, folks. There are a lot of variables that we cannot control (that's the challenge, if not the fun).

    Thinking back on that stretch in Maine though, I agree that 1 mph is a reasonable average pace for older hikers in tough weather. At that pace, they didn't have time to do the hike safely.

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