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  1. #41
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    pretend you're blind...

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    pretend you're blind...
    Lone wolf think you might be right
    My love for life is quit simple .i get uo in the moring and then i go to bed at night. What I do inbween is to occupy my time. Cary Grant

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by hobbs View Post
    Didnt expect a comical reply thank you. Point blank how many of the rest of the class are saying cut the $%^ to them. Thats not sterotyping Plus were you on IG when the ATC posted about the paintings on the tree. People against it brought up the sticks and rocks former Thru hikers. Most of this class thinks its ok. Its not ok its not.The one person thts made a public plea if I read his message correctly is ODIE. I dont see Anything on social media. ANd yes the FB Class page is just egging the crap on. I saw one hiker call out this years class on the page due to Post clinton Trash being left by hikers. SO we no longer call out hikers or just turn the blind eye to garbage?
    No, I wasn't on IG I'm too old...I also don't read picture books. It's like Twitter wasn't short enough so they came out with IG. You are equating what people say in cyberspace to IRL. And you are assuming the WHOLE class is signed in to whichever social media sites you are on. Never mind you got multiple sites for a class even on the same platform like FB. How big was your High School? Did you know everybody in your school? How about even your grade? Shoot I went to school with 400 people in my grade for 5-6 years, I couldn't tell how half of them might respond to whether we should have pizza on Fridays. Forget about the other 1200 kids. My high school population would be on the small side for a thruhiker class. Do you ever think that maybe some folks eschew that nonsense altogether even? But you keep ascribing an opinion to them like you know them.

    Paint-with-a-broad-brush meaning(idiomatic) To describe a class of objects or a kind of phenomenon in general terms, without specific details and without attention to individual variations.
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  4. #44
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    I recall one utuber get angry when he reached one huge rock garden that was knocked over. He was passed and said the knocking over was vandalism.

  5. #45
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    While much of the graffiti is of no value, some of it has been very helpful. AMC at one time removed any indications of the AT from their trail signs. Their reasoning that they gave is that the AT was just an overlay of existing trails, and in the interest of keeping the experience more true to the original removed them. Problem is that AT hikers depend on them, and quickly those signs got AT symbols carved into them by what I assume were AT hikers. This proved to be very useful to the thru hiking community and really impossible to stop so they relented and include some reference to the AT where needed on their signs again.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by petedelisio View Post
    I recall one utuber get angry when he reached one huge rock garden that was knocked over. He was passed and said the knocking over was vandalism.
    Do you mean a cairn? Unless it's a cairn to mark trail where there is no other option I would consider cairn building or "rock stacking" the "graffiti." Fortunately rocks can easily be moved (depending on size) to "restore the area." When above tree line cairns are sometimes necessary to mark the path and protect fragile plants but I would not add to them. I might "rebuild" them if I could easily tell which rocks were dislocated but otherwise I would get info to the trail association that maintains that section.
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Half View Post
    Do you mean a cairn? Unless it's a cairn to mark trail where there is no other option I would consider cairn building or "rock stacking" the "graffiti." Fortunately rocks can easily be moved (depending on size) to "restore the area." When above tree line cairns are sometimes necessary to mark the path and protect fragile plants but I would not add to them. I might "rebuild" them if I could easily tell which rocks were dislocated but otherwise I would get info to the trail association that maintains that section.
    Yes, the rock stacking argument is as old as the rocks. There is such an obvious difference between a legitimate trail marking cairn and rock stacking graffiti that people who knock over legitimate cairns and those who object to my knocking over rock stacking graffiti are both F*&#$%! A$$ H%$#@ as far as I'm concerned, and I don't care what they think. I did a bit of rock un-stacking St Mary's Rocks in SNP last time I was there. The worst I've seen is at Yosemite NP (Base of the Falls Trail) and Pictured Rocks NL (Au Sable Beach, I think).

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Half View Post
    Do you mean a cairn? Unless it's a cairn to mark trail where there is no other option I would consider cairn building or "rock stacking" the "graffiti." Fortunately rocks can easily be moved (depending on size) to "restore the area." When above tree line cairns are sometimes necessary to mark the path and protect fragile plants but I would not add to them. I might "rebuild" them if I could easily tell which rocks were dislocated but otherwise I would get info to the trail association that maintains that section.
    No I meant rock garden.
    Rocks just piled with little reason all over the place in a small area is a rock garden.
    Sorry I wasn't more clear in stating they were not cairns/trail markers/deep wilderness food cache markers etc.

  9. #49
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    While I'm not saying that it isn't graffiti or that it should be there - I do remember seeing some really cool balanced stacks of rocks through VT. It was literally art the way some of these rocks were and not just stacks or piles people made. I'm sure one will argue art doesn't belong and I'm not disagreeing, just saying I saw some really cool ones.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Half View Post
    Do you mean a cairn? Unless it's a cairn to mark trail where there is no other option I would consider cairn building or "rock stacking" the "graffiti." Fortunately rocks can easily be moved (depending on size) to "restore the area." When above tree line cairns are sometimes necessary to mark the path and protect fragile plants but I would not add to them. I might "rebuild" them if I could easily tell which rocks were dislocated but otherwise I would get info to the trail association that maintains that section.
    It was a large rock garden in the woods. It's not hard to distinguish them apart.
    Probably the same area previously mentioned.

  11. #51
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    One half, sorry I answered twice. It looked like my first reply did not go through at first.

  12. #52

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    Seeing that is truly heartbreaking I call them idiot instagrammers, but regardless they're in the guise it's cool and media worthy, it's not ever. Reminds me of a hiker in 2013, that had defaced the newly built "Long Branch Shelter" with a deep and knowingly choice of ignorance, "I didn't know you couldn't do it."" yes they did. That hiker had a large Trail journals following that year, and got blasted and rightfully so and oddly their hand started to get colder ill prepared is my guess, but other saw it as a payback from the big guy and he went off trail, for that reason or another I don't know. Sadly that graffiti has since been joined by many others, it's truly an amazing feat seeing all those hours put in and treasure poured out to make a home, only do be wrecked by ignoring or not having basic decency and or common sense and people like "Rifle".

  13. #53
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    I always bring a sharpie with me, they can turn the top of a pizza box into a hiker to trail sign immediately, works every time!!

    My 2 cents: As far as all of the LNT being ignored, the younger generation has no way to cope with their generations insecurities, they have a deep desire/need for attention that seems overwhelms them, so they Must turn to leaving a "mark", or a connection on YT, SC or other social media outlets to balance out those insecurities instead of embracing the solitude of the wilderness and becoming one with nature and a calmer being who is comfortable being alone.
    Take Time to Watch the Trees Dance with The Wind........Then Join In........

  14. #54

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    IMO the worst damage to happen to the trail is trekking poles without rubber feet. They punch holes and tear up the soil, and scratch the rocks, which to this geologist is a travesty! Oh and the click click click click! Super annoying as well as destructive.

  15. #55

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    Most of the scratches up in the whites and Maine are from crampons from winter hiking. I rarely see any from hiking poles but it may be the type of rock. I really do not hear the clicking very often. I have observed a aerated strip of new growth along the trail bed in that correlates with trekking poles, the poles break up the compacted soil from thousands of feet compacting it. I do have small collection of rubber tips that I have found in the trail over the years as they do seem to pull off quite easily. They are usually in near new condition.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockDoc View Post
    IMO the worst damage to happen to the trail is trekking poles without rubber feet. They punch holes and tear up the soil, and scratch the rocks, which to this geologist is a travesty! Oh and the click click click click! Super annoying as well as destructive.
    I agree. You should see the mess in the south they create!
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  17. #57

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    Everyone knows that people on so called “social” media are too lazy to read real news and just plain ignorant. People on the internet are almost as bad.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by GolfHiker View Post
    AT hikers are not criminals, they are in fact, mostly educated, intelligent and good people.
    Do you have a source for this
    Take Time to Watch the Trees Dance with The Wind........Then Join In........

  19. #59

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    In my experience the population on the AT on any given day is fairly diverse and representative of society overall with the exception of the community size being a small percentage. Most I have run into are reasonably respectful and for the most part follow the rules (social and legal) most of the time. Just as in any society there will be a criminal element of sorts that manifests in graffiti, litter, cans in the fire ring, and can be opportunistic when gear is laying around unattended.

    I think it's difficult to pin-point a single set of norms and traits of such a diverse community like this, spread over hundreds of miles, and mixed in with short distance hikers. However, society tends to burden our impressions of people, making us highly cautious of new people we meet until we know them better.

  20. #60
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    Diversity of the trail community
    The long distance hiking community [thru and section hikers] is diverse enough to make your point but is not representative of society overall. 15% of society is Black, 20% Hispanic or Latino, and 3% Asian. IMO the trail community is 90-95% White of European descent. Likewise inner city residents, gangs, people living in poverty, recent immigrants, the long term homeless and those with poor English skills are practically nonexistent...

    Trail Community over time

    It used to be that LD hikers went from one shelter/camping area to the another with occasional town stops. Most if not all backpacked so everyone congregated together Despite individual backgrounds, they formed a common community. Old with young. White collar with blue collar. Straight arrow with the pierced and tattooed. Those who bought food with those who had it mailed. Heavy packers with lightweights. Pot smokers, druggies, clean living people, vegetarians, raw dieters, SAD dieters, alcohol users, smokers, and snorers coexisted as one community. Sorry, I met no keto dieters. Hikers shared a hitch or a motel room with someone they met the same day perhaps at the side of the road. You felt comfortable joining any hiker, including total strangers, for dinner/breakfast in town. On the trail itself everyone was away from their pre-trail family and friends.
    Over time, trail community norms developed. You learned that foil doesn't burn. You saw people picking cans/foil out of the fire, You read the logbook. You picked up some trash because you slowly realized that those wrappers in your pocket fall out, that you oops left your wet socks... You quit leaving stuff at shelters or trailheads. You learned that all that crap has to be carried out by some else. You met the someone else. You read this in the logbook. You quit rationalizing its usefulness and realized it belongs only in a hiker box or the trash can. Your good habits were reinforced in the community and your bad habits were discouraged. You learned and grew from the community.

    Over the last 25 years our trail community has weaken and disappeared in many cases. The introduction of the portable phone into the trail scene has hikers talking to their family every night instead of fellow hikers. Instead of conversing with fellow LD hikers and day hikers on summits, at scenic vistas, shelters, and huts people pull out their phone. The increased number and variety of hostels has given rise to slack packing opportunities further separating some hikers out by income, tolerance of drugs, cleanliness, love of camping... With smartphones more people isolate themselves with games, texting, social media etc. I think 75% of hikers are introverts to some extent. It is far easier to discuss the next stop or trail section with your fellow camper if he is looking at a book than some unknown site on his phone. Facebook and other social media sites further separated out our community into niches. Access to the internet brought in the outside world. Instead of hitching many now call Uber, a trail angel or their prearranged shuttle. The last straws have been norovirus and covid.
    IMO this community will continue to change into small groups of backpackers like other trails and hence the "criminal element" will increase.


    One last thought. It is time to get rid of white blazes. They not only encourage graffiti, they are graffiti. Most western trails have no blazes. The AT is the best maintained LD trail in the USA with point by point trail books, data books, maps, elevation profiles, and now there are internet maps and GPS on every phone. Even in deep snow the trail for most part is obvious.


    Your thoughts ??

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