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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    A massive problem?

    Not so much.

    The tremendous decline of songbird populations along the AT is a massive problem. There are others.

    Mileage marker graffiti is more like an an assault on some people’s egos — it makes them feel disrespected.

    Better not to participate or encourage so as not to bruise any feelings, but of all the things to stress about, it’s pretty far down the list, IMO.
    This. It's certainly a problem -when- it happens. But it's not running rampant up and down the trail, destroying an ecosystem or the ability to appreciate the remarkable resource we have available.

  2. #22
    Registered User GolfHiker's Avatar
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    I’m just back from a few weeks on the AT, going NOBO in Virginia. Shelter vandalism was a much discussed topic. No disrespect to rickb, yes, there are some big time problems to be dealt with, but saying that should not give a pass on “ everyday” issues like vandalism on the AT. On 6/2, we had a first hand experience with a younger female thru hiker & her young male thru hiking partner. After seeing her “signature tag” just about everywhere day after day, we actually witnessed her defacing yet another shelter. When we suggested she was vandalizing the shelter, she said” no I’m not, and everyone else is doing it. If there was no other stuff there I wouldn’t do it”. Boyfriend chimed in, “no big deal, sharpie markings come off easily”. Just following the crowd makes it alright! Need I say more….

    AT hikers are not criminals, they are in fact, mostly educated, intelligent and good people. Those who make a routine of using sharpies to leave their mark however, are self centered, egotistical, and thoughtless. Not caring a bit about the effort put into actually cleaning up their mess. And how hard can it be to find out who the offenders are? I mean they’re actually signing their own trail name all along the AT!

    Now if you want to really talk about trail vandalism, just spend a few weeks hiking the Camino de Santiago in Spain. There was not a sign, post, wall, rock or fence that wasn’t filled with graffiti, rants and obscenities.

    Don’t get me started!
    "How can something this hard be so much fun".

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GolfHiker View Post
    I’m just back from a few weeks on the AT, going NOBO in Virginia. Shelter vandalism was a much discussed topic. No disrespect to rickb, yes, there are some big time problems to be dealt with, but saying that should not give a pass on “ everyday” issues like vandalism on the AT. On 6/2, we had a first hand experience with a younger female thru hiker & her young male thru hiking partner. After seeing her “signature tag” just about everywhere day after day, we actually witnessed her defacing yet another shelter. When we suggested she was vandalizing the shelter, she said” no I’m not, and everyone else is doing it. If there was no other stuff there I wouldn’t do it”. Boyfriend chimed in, “no big deal, sharpie markings come off easily”. Just following the crowd makes it alright! Need I say more….

    AT hikers are not criminals, they are in fact, mostly educated, intelligent and good people. Those who make a routine of using sharpies to leave their mark however, are self centered, egotistical, and thoughtless. Not caring a bit about the effort put into actually cleaning up their mess. And how hard can it be to find out who the offenders are? I mean they’re actually signing their own trail name all along the AT!

    Now if you want to really talk about trail vandalism, just spend a few weeks hiking the Camino de Santiago in Spain. There was not a sign, post, wall, rock or fence that wasn’t filled with graffiti, rants and obscenities.

    Don’t get me started!
    What Rick doesnt know is the RTC had to stein shelters do to graffitti and I would ask your opinion since you bring up the camino why so much there?
    My love for life is quit simple .i get uo in the moring and then i go to bed at night. What I do inbween is to occupy my time. Cary Grant

  4. #24
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    I don't see the big deal about graffiti inside a shelter[as long as it is not offensive in nature]. The shelter itself is a blight to the trail and the wilderness. However, graffiti on natural elements is inexcusable.

  5. #25

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    The shelter log is the place to "make your mark" and leave your name not the shelter itself IMHO.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by hobbs View Post
    What Rick doesnt know is the RTC had to stein shelters do to graffitti and I would ask your opinion since you bring up the camino why so much there?
    Rick isn't saying graffiti doesn't exist, or that it's not a problem. Only that it's not a 'massive problem' in comparison to various other things like the examples he cited.

  7. #27
    Registered User GolfHiker's Avatar
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    Hobbs. Regarding the Camino, I honestly don’t know. It was so obvious & prevalent that you get the feeling the Spanish government just doesn’t care. There was one guy in particular that marked signs with political rants for hundreds of kilometers, in English, nonetheless. There are clearly a lot of factions/ regions that don’t like each other, or the way Spain’s government handled things within these regions ( Basque, Catalonia, and others), so it’s easy to see where this all came from.

    I was really surprised at it all, on the Camino, a Spanish treasure that sees Pilgrims from all over the world.
    "How can something this hard be so much fun".

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by GolfHiker View Post
    Boyfriend chimed in, “no big deal, sharpie markings come off easily”.
    I would have requested a demonstration

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by GolfHiker View Post
    Hobbs. Regarding the Camino, I honestly don’t know. It was so obvious & prevalent that you get the feeling the Spanish government just doesn’t care. There was one guy in particular that marked signs with political rants for hundreds of kilometers, in English, nonetheless. There are clearly a lot of factions/ regions that don’t like each other, or the way Spain’s government handled things within these regions ( Basque, Catalonia, and others), so it’s easy to see where this all came from.

    I was really surprised at it all, on the Camino, a Spanish treasure that sees Pilgrims from all over the world.
    Thats intersting to say the least. I think you must be right how their handling each faction they have. Its also sad about that that BUT Iook at this years class on trail and think abunch of idots are hiking or people who just dont care...
    My love for life is quit simple .i get uo in the moring and then i go to bed at night. What I do inbween is to occupy my time. Cary Grant

  10. #30

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    OTOH, trees.

    This on the Long Path in Harriman SP. Makes me appreciate the fact that a few billion years from now the Earth will be burned to a crisp when the Sun enters its red giant expansion phase. Of course there will be another K-T event before that.

    Tree_carving.jpg
    UL, because nobody ever asks "How can I make my pack heavier?"

  11. #31

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    Well, at least they aren't carving their names into the woodwork with knives like in the good old days. That takes time and effort. A Sharpie is so much easier. Eventually, the walls will need a new coat of paint and it can all start again.

    High Rocks overlook in MD was quite colorful, seem to remember there were 2-3 overlooks like that.
    Follow slogoen on Instagram.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBob View Post
    The shelter log is the place to "make your mark" and leave your name not the shelter itself IMHO.
    I couldn't agree more!! That's why they are there + trail communications!! Seems the "Self-centered" younger crowd is growing & growing, they seem to be a me me me society !! When I hiked the PCT in 2016 (sobo) it was so refreshing not having any shelters & seeing this disrespect.

    I also knock down stacked rocks that are not directional markers. I enjoy the untouched beauty of the forests & keeping it wild.
    Take Time to Watch the Trees Dance with The Wind.....Then Join In

  13. #33
    1,630 miles and counting earlyriser26's Avatar
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    I am a Maintainer in Virginia and we have graffiti at the Paul Wolfe shelter. Just today, I was informed we had more "tags" at the shelter. Sanded away by maintainers. Images of all tags sent to ATC and LEO's.
    There are so many miles and so many mountains between here and there that it is hardly worth thinking about

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by earlyriser26 View Post
    I am a Maintainer in Virginia and we have graffiti at the Paul Wolfe shelter. Just today, I was informed we had more "tags" at the shelter. Sanded away by maintainers. Images of all tags sent to ATC and LEO's.
    Thank you!!

  15. #35

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    Let's not paint with such a broad Sharpie folks.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alligator View Post
    Let's not paint with such a broad Sharpie folks.
    Hows it a broad assumption or NON fact this years class sucks? Tell me where theres evidence from georgia to Post clinton? One Graffitti artist was coersed to get off trail after a crap load of Tagging to Include NP property? SO explain how this is a braod brush? I like to understand your reasoning? Since he was publishing it on IG
    My love for life is quit simple .i get uo in the moring and then i go to bed at night. What I do inbween is to occupy my time. Cary Grant

  17. #37

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    You've taken a couple of anecdotal examples and painted an entire class with giant uninformed strokes.

    That is the definition of a 'broad assumption'.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by hobbs View Post
    Hows it a broad assumption or NON fact this years class sucks? Tell me where theres evidence from georgia to Post clinton? One Graffitti artist was coersed to get off trail after a crap load of Tagging to Include NP property? SO explain how this is a braod brush? I like to understand your reasoning? Since he was publishing it on IG
    Seriously? I don't know what the numbers are like this year but pre-Covid there were more than 2000+ thruhikers a year. If 20 of them were bad apples that would be just 1%. Even if 200 sucked that would be just 10%, leaving 90% as not sucking. Met them all have you? Did like 300 of them Sharpie you while you were passed out or something? How many people are you basing your estimate on? Stereotype much?
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
    Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan

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  19. #39
    Registered User hobbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alligator View Post
    Seriously? I don't know what the numbers are like this year but pre-Covid there were more than 2000+ thruhikers a year. If 20 of them were bad apples that would be just 1%. Even if 200 sucked that would be just 10%, leaving 90% as not sucking. Met them all have you? Did like 300 of them Sharpie you while you were passed out or something? How many people are you basing your estimate on? Stereotype much?
    Didnt expect a comical reply thank you. Point blank how many of the rest of the class are saying cut the $%^ to them. Thats not sterotyping Plus were you on IG when the ATC posted about the paintings on the tree. People against it brought up the sticks and rocks former Thru hikers. Most of this class thinks its ok. Its not ok its not.The one person thts made a public plea if I read his message correctly is ODIE. I dont see Anything on social media. ANd yes the FB Class page is just egging the crap on. I saw one hiker call out this years class on the page due to Post clinton Trash being left by hikers. SO we no longer call out hikers or just turn the blind eye to garbage?
    My love for life is quit simple .i get uo in the moring and then i go to bed at night. What I do inbween is to occupy my time. Cary Grant

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by hobbs View Post
    ...social media... ...FB Class page...
    I think we've found the problem.

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