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  1. #21
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    It'll be interesting to see how that's handled. PCTA says there's no walkable detour.

    https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-tr...unt-jefferson/

  2. #22

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    6/30 - last night at ~ 1453 miles (Summit Lake Rd). 1453 miles / 29 days = 50.1 mpd
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  3. #23

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    7/05 - entered Oregon this morning. Ended the day at Hwy 66 (Green Springs) = 1744.8 miles in 34 days , 51.3 mpd (on pace for < 52d)


    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  4. #24
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    Outside online is tracking his progress https://www.outsideonline.com/2423583/pct-fkt

  5. #25
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    Unfreakingbeiliveble!!!!!

  6. #26
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    Un-feakin'- believable!!!!

    Better: ),

  7. #27

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    7/08 - to Odell Lake, ~ 1918 miles in 38 days
    7/11 - Timmy completed the work-around for the Lionhead fire and finished the day a ~ mile 2066, 50.4 mpd average so far so very close to FKT pace
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by One Half View Post
    7/11 - Timmy completed the work-around for the Lionhead fire and finished the day a ~ mile 2066, 50.4 mpd average so far so very close to FKT pace
    If he didn't hike the PCT through the Lionshead closure, contiguous with the rest of the trail, it invalidates the FKT. Still a monumental achievement for a man, but not an FKT.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnycat View Post
    If he didn't hike the PCT through the Lionshead closure, contiguous with the rest of the trail, it invalidates the FKT. Still a monumental achievement for a man, but not an FKT.
    I don't believe that's true. When sections are closed, thru hikers take the reroute. Including those who are attempting an FKT. See this:

    Report
    Belgian dentist Karel Sabbe lowered the mark by about 22 hours, completing the route in 52d8h25m supported, northbound, completed on August 13, 2016. Sabbe's trip has generated some controversy since he took several alternate routes due to fire, as discussed in trailrunnermag.com. However, Joe McConaughy (previous FKT holder) also official detours. He said: "I did take the official PCT reroutes of all sections that were closed. I ran all these sections (meaning if it was a road reroute, I would run all of it). ... I believe I ended up running a few extra miles for the reroutes!"
    https://fastestknowntime.com/fkt/kar...-wa-2016-08-13



    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by One Half View Post
    I don't believe that's true. When sections are closed, thru hikers take the reroute. Including those who are attempting an FKT.
    The point remains that they are not hiking the same contiguous trail as everyone else, regardless of what the FKT website and other people try to convince others of. This is further complicated by the stated fact that Tim and his team are purposely not giving real-time updates as to his progress, and as there is no re-route given by pcta.org (https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-tr...unt-jefferson/), we have no idea as to what his re-route even was at this time.

    IIRC the closed section includes at least one stream crossing (Milk Creek and/or Russell Creek); does the re-route also have a stream crossing? Are the altitude changes the same? Too many variables for it to be, to me, an FKT.

    Still a great accomplishment though, and one that possibly should be listed with the other attempts, albeit with an asterisk, but it should not override an FKT of someone who actually ran the entire trail in one shot.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnycat View Post
    The point remains that they are not hiking the same contiguous trail as everyone else, regardless of what the FKT website and other people try to convince others of. This is further complicated by the stated fact that Tim and his team are purposely not giving real-time updates as to his progress, and as there is no re-route given by pcta.org (https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-tr...unt-jefferson/), we have no idea as to what his re-route even was at this time.

    IIRC the closed section includes at least one stream crossing (Milk Creek and/or Russell Creek); does the re-route also have a stream crossing? Are the altitude changes the same? Too many variables for it to be, to me, an FKT.

    Still a great accomplishment though, and one that possibly should be listed with the other attempts, albeit with an asterisk, but it should not override an FKT of someone who actually ran the entire trail in one shot.
    So if this happens to a thru hiker you don't consider it a thru hike?

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by JNI64 View Post
    So if this happens to a thru hiker you don't consider it a thru hike?
    No, I would still consider it a thru hike, because during that period of time, everyone on the trail was affected by the same closure. I would consider someone who went halfway NOBO then shuttled to the top and finished it SOBO to be a thru. An FKT is a different animal though, because there needs to be a consistent set of standards when comparing one person's time to another's over a time span existing beyond one season.

    As an addendum to my previous post, one other difficulty in the closed stretch is Park Butte (just north of Jefferson Park), which besides being steep, is possibly still covered in snow/ice, providing an additional degree of difficulty.

  13. #33
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    Closures could happen at any time along the trail. So those ahead of a sudden Closure may not be affected by the same Closure. It's like an act of God or nature when really bad weather comes. I have no idea what the rules are but if there's a Closure then taking the alternate might take longer just like bad weather.
    I get what you're saying but it will never be a complete level playing field there's just to many variables.

  14. #34

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    Good point, but I would still consider it a thru-hike; basically as long as you went from the start to the terminus in one season, hiking as much of the trail as was allowed while you were on it. And who is to say that the person who ended up having to deal with a closure had an easier time? They have to make logistics changes, arrange for different rides and possibly different resupply, etc. Of course that's just my rough opinion, a thru is a personal journey and not a competition with anyone other than one's self, so there is obviously room for interpretation.

  15. #35
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    So the rules have to remain the same for a fkt as well IMHO.
    Because there's no way you're going to have the exact same conditions.
    So do you not think Karel holds the record? He apparently had to use Some "official detours.

  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=Jonnycat;2287896]The point remains that they are not hiking the same contiguous trail as everyone else, regardless of what the FKT website and other people try to convince others of.

    Yes in fact they ARE actually hiking/running the same trail as everyone else is AT THAT TIME. Last years' trail was slightly different, next year's trail will no doubt be different, even if in a small way. Most FKT's, when not attempted in the same year, have different mileages, reroutes, etc.
    I do see what you are saying, but the only way I would agree with your standpoint is if the reroutes provided a shorter distance than the previous FKT.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnycat View Post
    If he didn't hike the PCT through the Lionshead closure, contiguous with the rest of the trail, it invalidates the FKT. Still a monumental achievement for a man, but not an FKT.
    As there is no "official" formal organization regarding FKT's on trail runs, the default organization recording these runs/hikes is https://fastestknowntime.com/ , and they, along with the runners who have and continue to set these records under their rules about submission, routes, styles, and tracking , do not agree with your opinion. Typically the "official route" is the one that is legally open as declared by the trail organizations that govern and manage the trails at the time of the attempt. Trail routes often change both temporarily and permanently. Typically the changes are small, and generally trails get longer, not shorter, as reroutes go around temporary obstacles and safety closures, new protected areas, and as switchbacks are added.
    "That's the thing about possum innards - they's just as good the second day." - Jed Clampett

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    As there is no "official" formal organization regarding FKT's on trail runs, the default organization recording these runs/hikes is https://fastestknowntime.com/ , and they, along with the runners who have and continue to set these records under their rules about submission, routes, styles, and tracking , do not agree with your opinion.
    Yes, it is apparent that the "Fastest Known Time LLC" company doesn't agree with my opinion, and I am sure that Timothy's corporate sponsor (Adidasģ) also does not agree, especially when he serves as an advertising vehicle for them to sell more of their product by his attempt, and possible designation of getting the FKT.

  19. #39
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    So I'm curious what your take is on the last 2 record holders that had to use re-routes. Or is it the fact that this guy has a sponsor?

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by JNI64 View Post
    So I'm curious what your take is on the last 2 record holders that had to use re-routes. Or is it the fact that this guy has a sponsor?
    As I have stated before in this thread, there needs to be a consistent set of standards for a thru to be considered to be an FKT, and re-routes do not provide for that, especially when you consider the various types of difficulties encountered on the trail (snow/ice/streams/altitude). One possible way this could be addressed would be to allow future runners the same re-route options as previous runners, but that would end up with a patchwork trail and most likely take away from the spirit of an FKT.

    As to the promotion and monetization of the trail by corporate entities and sponsors, yeah, not a big fan of that to put it mildly.

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