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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradMT View Post
    An informative post, thanks.
    All my backpacking is in Grizzly (and Black Bear) country here in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. My method is to hang food and keep a clean camp, and I doubt I'll ever sleep with food. I've never had a problem, but I also don't backpack inside the National Park where the odds of finding a more habituated bear are probably higher.
    Thanks Brad. Re-reading my previous post, I see that I failed to indicate that in the e-mail discussion I referred to, we were specifically discussing east coast US black bears. I should have pointed that out. Clearly, Grizzlies are a whole different story.

  2. #42

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    This just in via a friend that just did Dicks Creek Gap to Winding Stair Gap. Lots of bear activity from Carter's Gap shelter to Betty's Creek Gap. Hiker reports: 2 diff. groups had PCT hangs - bear climbed tree, then leaped to catch the food bag - total loss. Two diff. instances of BV500 bear cans being opened. Hiker with Bear Vault lockable lid caused bear to abandon trying. One Ursak well tied to a tree, bear crushed contents but bag survived, covered in bear slobber. My take: more people on trails, more food for bears and thus more agressive getting food.

  3. #43

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    I would like to see the bear that opened the BV500.If one were to cover the tabs with duct tape,I wonder if he could still defeat it.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by DralaHiker View Post
    This just in via a friend that just did Dicks Creek Gap to Winding Stair Gap. Lots of bear activity from Carter's Gap shelter to Betty's Creek Gap. Hiker reports: 2 diff. groups had PCT hangs - bear climbed tree, then leaped to catch the food bag - total loss. Two diff. instances of BV500 bear cans being opened. Hiker with Bear Vault lockable lid caused bear to abandon trying. One Ursak well tied to a tree, bear crushed contents but bag survived, covered in bear slobber. My take: more people on trails, more food for bears and thus more agressive getting food.
    I am not discounting the account but wonder if the 2 groups fully implemented their PCT hangs, at least 12' high and 6' from the trunk. Hikers may just be thinking the tie-off part is the whole method. People in general poorly estimate height in the woods as well, I think perhaps due to the extensive variability of tree size from place to place. It can be helpful to mark your line at 5 or 10 ft intervals to gauge height of the bag. Also to know how far your arms stretch when fully horizontal.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
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  5. #45
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    Thanks. Good post.

  6. #46
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    Nice thought. I think ill give it a try.

  7. #47
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    Default A thought worth sharing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Odd Man Out View Post
    Thanks Brad. Re-reading my previous post, I see that I failed to indicate that in the e-mail discussion I referred to, we were specifically discussing east coast US black bears. I should have pointed that out. Clearly, Grizzlies are a whole different story.

    47 years of backpacking, bears dive off of trees to get the food bag, bears chew thru the limb to weaken the limb or just chew it off(8 inch Post Oak in the Cohuttas), bears stand on each others shoulders, mice chewing threw Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends sleeping bags to get you snickers, Power Bar or food bag, a water bottle got took last week at Cosby Knob Shelter in the Great Smokies, was sitting outside the vestibule, not recovered, bear cansiters can be rolled 3/4 of a mile away-uphill in the Sierras, cansiters get thrown over cliffs so they bust in the river below spewing the contents, bear jerking the hang cable last week enough to break the ring it was clipped into, okay, its late, I'm stopping, if you haven't experienced anything like this, spend more time on the trail, its a great classroom. I pack my BV450 in the morning for the next trip, and I now always carry a canister, seeing how well the Ursack SHREDS and the razor teeth of the infamous mouse just goes right thru Dyneema. Oh, and a Ursack rope was chewed thru on the Tahoe Rim Trail in November, bag gone, dude bailed the trail, no choice. Love my canister collection, NPS wants them madatory on the entire AT, they are quietly fighting that battle now.

  8. #48
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    Since bears seem generally unwilling to try to take food directly from a person or person occupied tent, what if an electronic noisemaker was added to the food bag, or in tests unoccupied tents. Perhaps even nearby on a motion sensor, emitting some random noises every so often but also more noises if movement was detected. Wonder if that would help.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    Since bears seem generally unwilling to try to take food directly from a person or person occupied tent, what if an electronic noisemaker was added to the food bag, or in tests unoccupied tents. Perhaps even nearby on a motion sensor, emitting some random noises every so often but also more noises if movement was detected. Wonder if that would help.
    Yeah you might be on to something. I think there's too many variables for the motion sensor. But I don't know why there couldn't be a small pad or whatever in the bag ursack and when it feels pressure emits a alarm. Or a sensor that Hangs on your tent when it feels severe shaking emits an alarm.

  10. #50
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    Second thought a motion sensor might be nice on a tent or tarp that emits noise and light for anything that comes around you in the middle of the night.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNI64 View Post
    Second thought a motion sensor might be nice on a tent or tarp that emits noise and light for anything that comes around you in the middle of the night.
    If it could only trigger when what comes around exceeds 100 lbs or so, you might have something, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffmeh View Post
    If it could only trigger when what comes around exceeds 100 lbs or so, you might have something, lol.
    Or set up for anything that comes within 10' I don't want anything around me that close when I'm sleeping .

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNI64 View Post
    Or set up for anything that comes within 10' I don't want anything around me that close when I'm sleeping .
    I would prefer not to be awakened by every harmless critter that wanders by throughout the night. I don't think one would be very popular with any others camping in the area if the chipmunks, squirrels, mice, opossums, etc. are active.

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    It might even stop deer and other animals coming in and chewing the salt off your trekking poles and such. Or an unwanted human.

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    This would probably be more practical solo camping

  16. #56

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    If you sleep with your food, it's prudent to choose low-odor dehydrated food, and then pack it all in food saver vacuum or multiple ziplock bags.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockDoc View Post
    If you sleep with your food, it's prudent to choose low-odor dehydrated food, and then pack it all in food saver vacuum or multiple ziplock bags.
    When packing my food bag or canister, I purposely chose low-odor, dehydrated foods as well. I have the odor-proof Coglans food bags(Amazon) that fit my Garcia canister perfectly and use the hound out of my FoodSaver. Its just what you do in bear country. Also, it is ILLEGAL to bring or store(under your head) food in a shelter on NPS properties but a common practice for the thruhikers. I don't have the link, but there is a great YouTube vid of various meat items in an enclosure where bears are being studied. Tuna is the ultimate bait as the bears bypass steaks & bacon to find the tuna can. This says alot. And for those who are good citizens that follow the rules, I find it quiet offensive when the thru's stick it under their head in a shelter in the Smokies or other NPS properties. We all sign the Backcountry Permit before it is issued. Thats called a contract. And bears are continuing to rip down/open hung backpacks at the shelter openings. No food required, just what their doing. In the end, its up to you. Many thanks to all those who contributed to this lead posting, we have a wonderful and wealthy pool of knowledge that benefits us all, thats what makes WhiteBlaze a special place, and the best AT Wilderness Library ever!

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    Since bears seem generally unwilling to try to take food directly from a person...
    Once again, depends upon where you are.
    If you are in an area where bears seldom come in contact with people, the odds are higher that they still fear humans and generally won't approach them.
    Other places, the bears are getting used to people and learning they are not a threat. You can't scare them off and you certain do NOT want to be sleeping with your food in bear country where bears are getting habituated to humans.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    Once again, depends upon where you are.
    If you are in an area where bears seldom come in contact with people, the odds are higher that they still fear humans and generally won't approach them.
    Other places, the bears are getting used to people and learning they are not a threat. You can't scare them off and you certain do NOT want to be sleeping with your food in bear country where bears are getting habituated to humans.
    The North American Bear Center has a great web page with science-based information on bears, with an emphasis on black bears. Check out this page from their Myths and Misconceptions sections about why human-habituated bears are NOT more likely to attack humans.

    https://bear.org/myth-when-bears-los...ely-to-attack/

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd Man Out View Post
    The North American Bear Center has a great web page with science-based information on bears, with an emphasis on black bears. Check out this page from their Myths and Misconceptions sections about why human-habituated bears are NOT more likely to attack humans.

    https://bear.org/myth-when-bears-los...ely-to-attack/
    I didn't see it in the article but I wonder if they studied bears who were starving hungry and a human was holding or sleeping with food to see if they would attack?

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