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  1. #41
    Registered User hobbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    I think you meant the the link I posted after that one. As Alligator pointed out my link to the rifle/shotgun table was flawed.

    https://www.wyofile.com/wp-content/u...11/SMITH-1.pdf

    Food for thought.
    Yes I went through that and their sources LOL Humane society orh kie they dont have an interest in being non partial LOL...Like I said I appreciate it your trying . I do agree hunting has fallen off. thats been known though its been in a decline. BUT still pay for use and etc. What do backpackers pay besides backcountry fees if they go into a National Park? Like i said they sure use alot and really dont pay. Prime example how many former or Present hikers belong to a trial club and volunteer? I can name three I have gotten some advise when I posted something. Sure a very narrow amount of people that volunteer and do the trail work compared to the users dont ya think?
    My love for life is quit simple .i get uo in the moring and then i go to bed at night. What I do inbween is to occupy my time. Cary Grant

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    . . . As far as hikers and hunters coexisting it shouldn't be that hard for hunters to get far enough off the trail for hikers to be a non issue,should it?
    I think it depends on where you are. There are certainly places in New England that allow turkey and deer hunting in areas where you'd be hard pressed to ever be more than 100 or 200 yards from a trail.

    I think the key to success in this discussion is recognizing that there are vastly different circumstances in many different areas. In many areas out west, it would be absurd to close hunting season to hikers as the areas are vast and hunters are relatively few and trails are fewer if existing at all, and posting adequate signage would be impossible. Whereas out east, there are lots of areas that are smaller relative to the number of hunters and hikers with a high density of trails and posting signage is a reasonable possibility.

    I kinda like the idea of hunting days and hiking days on certain properties during hunting seasons if it's possible to keep the users adequately informed. Then, hikers could avoid the hunting days and hunters would be less likely to have to deal with hikers on their hunting days and nobody is banned from the land for any significant period of time.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  3. #43
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    As a hunter since my youth, I have a question. Why would any hunter want to hunt daytime game [knowingly] close to other people, whether hikers, other hunters, houses, roads, etc? The risk of distractions scaring off game as well as trusting other hunters to positively identify me would be too great in my mind.

  4. #44
    Is it raining yet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    Ditto! I would like to point out that in the case of turkeys it is only legal to harvest the male of the species.This means you would need positive identification not only that it's a bird but that it's a male bird.In order for that to happen you need to have a clear view of what you're shooting at.I just hope the injured hiker in Missouri pulls thru because from what I can tell it was a rifle shot to the chest.
    As far as hikers and hunters coexisting it shouldn't be that hard for hunters to get far enough off the trail for hikers to be a non issue,should it?
    As a non-hunter didn't know this, and I doubt many others did. Adds weight to my perception that this was negligence and not an accident.
    Be Prepared

  5. #45
    Registered User simon's Avatar
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    Thought the tread that hunters don't pay for their license out of the goodness of heart to buy new land or maintain. As a hunter/backpacker I know hunters complain every time there is an increase in price. With less young people hunting the rates in PA have gone up and up. Not an answer to the debate but thought I'd add the prospective.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seatbelt View Post
    As a hunter since my youth, I have a question. Why would any hunter want to hunt daytime game [knowingly] close to other people, whether hikers, other hunters, houses, roads, etc? The risk of distractions scaring off game as well as trusting other hunters to positively identify me would be too great in my mind.
    I am going to guess that it's the only place they can find to hunt.However,in my area there are many hunt clubs that rent property from private land owners to use exclusively for hunting.They each pay a few hundred dollars per year to be in the club.It's a system that works fairly well as far as I know since the hunters have some say as to who is allowed in the club and the public does not have access to the property.

  7. #47
    Registered User hobbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    I am going to guess that it's the only place they can find to hunt.However,in my area there are many hunt clubs that rent property from private land owners to use exclusively for hunting.They each pay a few hundred dollars per year to be in the club.It's a system that works fairly well as far as I know since the hunters have some say as to who is allowed in the club and the public does not have access to the property.
    iN Texas I hunted on Private land do to the size of game in different locations in the state,. In Virginia I hunt private and public. You will find that the game can move near public access roads close to creeks. But I take some hunters are not use to moving when hunting and just sit in a blind. I really dont know how Seatbelt hunts..Has he never hunted near other hunters?
    My love for life is quit simple .i get uo in the moring and then i go to bed at night. What I do inbween is to occupy my time. Cary Grant

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobbs View Post
    iN Texas I hunted on Private land do to the size of game in different locations in the state,. In Virginia I hunt private and public. You will find that the game can move near public access roads close to creeks. But I take some hunters are not use to moving when hunting and just sit in a blind. I really dont know how Seatbelt hunts..Has he never hunted near other hunters?
    Not intentionally I haven't. I quit deer hunting many years ago when hunting on private land I observed many trespassers hunting on the property, walking right up on me without seeing me[yes I was wearing orange]. To answer your question, I never liked hunting with others except for night hunting, which is actually safer in groups. Growing up in a National Forest area and hunting/fishing extensively, I can't honestly say that nobody else was ever around, but whenever I noticed them, I moved on.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by hobbs View Post
    iN Texas I hunted on Private land do to the size of game in different locations in the state,. In Virginia I hunt private and public. You will find that the game can move near public access roads close to creeks. But I take some hunters are not use to moving when hunting and just sit in a blind. I really dont know how Seatbelt hunts..Has he never hunted near other hunters?
    At least in Texas, one apologizes when putting their face into the shotgun pellet pattern. Good form, that.

  10. #50

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    So I went bird hunting with some friends for quail.It was a guided hunt of course with bird dogs.I was more interested in not having an incident over some stupid quail like shooting a buddy "on the swing" so when the first thing out of the guides mough was,"Any of you accidentally shoot my dog it's gonna cost you FIVE GRAND" I was pretty impressed.

    If there were clear cut fines for hunting accidents that included heavy financial costs and/or jail time in the event of death then I think some people might actually know what they are shooting at before they pull the trigger and worry about the apology later.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seatbelt View Post
    Not intentionally I haven't. I quit deer hunting many years ago when hunting on private land I observed many trespassers hunting on the property, walking right up on me without seeing me[yes I was wearing orange]. To answer your question, I never liked hunting with others except for night hunting, which is actually safer in groups. Growing up in a National Forest area and hunting/fishing extensively, I can't honestly say that nobody else was ever around, but whenever I noticed them, I moved on.
    Yes that would throw me off to if it startled me. The properties in different states I have hunting in if they were private there was a limiting number on the property. In Texas you ll see most of the trophy shots they publish is south Texas three Rivers area. Public land here in Virginia I only go to a couple mostly on private property friends are farmers and hunters...
    My love for life is quit simple .i get uo in the moring and then i go to bed at night. What I do inbween is to occupy my time. Cary Grant

  12. #52
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    I thought he was a turkey...

    Turkey Male.jpg
    Male Turkey

    Turkey Female.jpg
    Female Turkey

    SANY1065-1.jpg
    Hiker

    Really? I've got no problems with hunters. But armed IDIOTS in the woods shooting at unidentified targets aren't hunters, they're just IDIOTS - no matter how much they pay in taxes and license fees.
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    I was self employed once, but it proved too stressful. My boss was a jerk and my employee was a slacker - I didn't know whether to quit or fire myself.

  13. #53
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    I agree, but found this interesting nevertheless:

    https://www.huntersafetylab.com/wp-c...rs-review1.pdf

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    I agree, but found this interesting nevertheless:

    https://www.huntersafetylab.com/wp-c...rs-review1.pdf
    Interesting paper (I skimmed parts of it and red other parts more carefully). A couple of thoughts:

    1. They say that accidents are more common with experienced hunters than non-experienced hunters. I know they are researchers and may have accounted for the disparity, but they didn't comment on what I would consider the obvious selection bias with regards to "time in woods". I would guess that at any given moment, of all hunters in the woods the vast majority would be considered "experienced hunters" because they're the ones going back over and over again. So it would require a careful statistical analysis to gauge the exact extent that experienced hunters are more or less likely to shoot at a person by mistake. It would be totally inadequate just to count the number of cases and see which one is greater, even if the difference in raw count is large.

    2. Obviously few incidents where one hunter shoots another has any witnesses and no objective way to evaluate the psychological process. I know myself, and I know others are built with the same cognitive blind spots. If I had recently shot a human being by accident while hunting, my memory of the event would be distorted in my mind to a very large extent out of extreme guilt. I'd rewrite my memory so that I could see myself as being as innocent as I can manage under the circumstances. I'm not saying I'd lie about it. It's just that we as humans cannot evaluate our own actions objectively when they're loaded with that much guilt. Much of what we learn about hunting accidents come from self reporting by those who have just undergone the most unpleasant and guilt inducing event they'll experience in their whole life.

    I pray I'll never join that club. I have a lot of sympathy for them because even if carelessness was involved, the life-long guilt is a horrible thing for them to have to carry. One may easily quip that they don't deserve sympathy because they killed someone. But I'd guess that many of us (including me) have done things stupid enough that could have resulted in someone's death with a just little more bad luck.

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    Can't help but tell this story.We took a group of Boy Scouts on a 20 mile hike on a combined hike/bike trail in NW Iowa,a former railroad track. At each road crossing were posted No Hunting signs. This being Iowa,with farm to market roads,that means a sign every mile. Since we were teaching the boys LNT,we had bags to pick up trash,including 50 plus spent shotgun shells. About 8 miles in,we met a fellow who told me we should not be hiking there during pheasant season.I can't say for sure he was an illegal hunter,but he was carrying a shotgun,and had a very nice looking dog with him. Nice of him to warn us about hunters in the No Hunting area though...

  16. #56
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    Awesome, thanks for teaching all them scouts the LNT and retrieving all the spent shells.
    But how dare you take all them little bird looking like creatures out walking/hiking during bird hunting season?
    Shame on you!

  17. #57
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    As a deer hunter i can't tell you how many times i've come out of some thicket only to discover i am in some one's cross hairs. A lot of hunters don't try to hide the fact that there rifle is aimed at you. Makes one wonder but then again i could get run over by a bus so i'll take the risk and keep hiking and hunting.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyPaper View Post
    . . . I have a lot of sympathy for them because even if carelessness was involved, the life-long guilt is a horrible thing for them to have to carry. One may easily quip that they don't deserve sympathy because they killed someone. But I'd guess that many of us (including me) have done things stupid enough that could have resulted in someone's death with a just little more bad luck.
    Well said and true. Carelessness with a gun that ends in injury or death to another is one of the more unforgivable mistakes I think anyone can make. I have a lot of sympathy for people that make such horrible mistakes and have to live with them. BUT, I sure as heck have NO interest in doing anything less than throwing the whole book at them and dramatically curtailing their freedom and opportunities for a very long time after such an act.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Trek View Post
    . . . posted No Hunting signs. . . we met a fellow who told me we should not be hiking there during pheasant season.I can't say for sure he was an illegal hunter,but he was carrying a shotgun,and had a very nice looking dog with him. Nice of him to warn us about hunters in the No Hunting area though...
    I grew up with lots of private family property that was well signed as No Hunting. That way, we (and our friends) got to hunt our property without the game being diminished by other random hunters. And, maybe even more importantly, we could hunt our property with much reduced fear of being shot by some other dumb hunter.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  19. #59
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    I dunno, not a hunter myself, donít own a gun. But someone coming on here and saying hikers donít do jack for conservation, that hunters do it all and pay for it all... sorry, but thatís out of line.

    Clearly I canít speak for what hunters do or pay, but I know too many hikers that do way more than their share and itís unfair to lump them in with a very narrow perception of what and who hikers are compared to hunters. (Iím not one of them by the way)

    And frankly, I find it to be bad form on a post about a hiker getting shot to say that itís somehow their fault, or the fault of hikers being allowed where hunting occurs. Donít have to be a hunter to understand youíre responsible for what you shoot.


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  20. #60
    Registered User hobbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scope View Post
    I dunno, not a hunter myself, don’t own a gun. But someone coming on here and saying hikers don’t do jack for conservation, that hunters do it all and pay for it all... sorry, but that’s out of line.

    Clearly I can’t speak for what hunters do or pay, but I know too many hikers that do way more than their share and it’s unfair to lump them in with a very narrow perception of what and who hikers are compared to hunters. (I’m not one of them by the way)

    And frankly, I find it to be bad form on a post about a hiker getting shot to say that it’s somehow their fault, or the fault of hikers being allowed where hunting occurs. Don’t have to be a hunter to understand you’re responsible for what you shoot.


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    OK you think its out of line. Then tell me exactly what all every hiker hiking the AT dioes for conservation? Also tell me based on number of trail clubs and how many members in a trail club its an issue to get more members. I ll tell you what most people do they make a one time donation to the ATC and its all good in their thinking. The only other org that does trail maintenance witht heir members is ALDHA besides the trail clubs.So which do you belong to?
    My love for life is quit simple .i get uo in the moring and then i go to bed at night. What I do inbween is to occupy my time. Cary Grant

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