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  1. #21
    Registered User Tuxhiker's Avatar
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    Thanks perymk, for the info on sulfer and ChiggAway. I didn't know anything about that product. Deet doesn't work well for me in the deep south. Horseflies and deerflies laugh at it and so do chiggers. I switched to Permethrin, which seems to do better for the flies, but still doesn't discourage the chiggers. I will give ChA a try. Does it also help with ticks? Thanks again for that info! I'm always learning something new here!

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    I usually spray lower legs and socks with Deet, which works for me. I also wear shorts (can't stand pants above about 50°F) and it seems easier to spot them early in their journey toward nether regions.

    A few years back I got some of those RailRiders InsectShield pants with the permanent (70 washings) Permethrin treatment. Brand new, never washed, I wore them into the local woods and about halfway thru my little 4mi walk I spied a deer tick working its way up my new magic britches. Seemed the treatment didn't faze the little rascal at all. So I let him (or her?) crawl onto my finger and then I sat down on a rock and put him/her on the thigh area and just kinda coralled him/her around for about 15 minutes... just crawled around with absolutely no signs of distress or an urgent need to escape.

    This is the tick of my tale, crawling on the pants in question... Attachment 47595

    Needless to say, I ain't a big believer.
    Well you cant claim they lied... Ticks arnt insects.

    Studies I have read claim Deet isnt all that good and once dried ticks tend to ignore it. Picaridin products came out much better.
    Also permethrins are pretty effective on arachnids, but it also breaks down in sunlight. So I am kinda skeptical about how long treated clothing will actually last. I give my pants, shoes and socks a mist during warm season and go figure it seems to do nothing against biting flys for very long.

  3. #23

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    I have had good results with JT Eaton's premixed permethrin.It is labeled for clothing,bedding,luggage etc Just let it dry before putting on the clothes and keep dogs and cats away until everything is dry.Wet permethrin is said to kill cats.So I would not trust it around pets and children until everything is dry.

  4. #24

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    ticks don't like me so I have no advice
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  5. #25

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    Add me to the list of people who watched ticks crawl around on my "70 wash insect shield overpriced treated clothing." I literally watched at least 5 ticks crawl on my long sleeve shirt for 5 minutes or so, with no care in the world or apparent adverse effect from the treatment. I was expecting them to fall off dead or something, but after awhile, a couple of them started to get uncomfortably close to getting out of my sight around my shoulder so I started squishing their heads. So yeah, that was the last time I ponied up money for the bugsaway or insectshield or whatever it was. I now spray my stuff (shoes and upper part of socks) before I go with the permethrin and try to stay out of the long grass as much as possible.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropdeadfred View Post
    Well you cant claim they lied... Ticks arnt insects.

    Studies I have read claim Deet isnt all that good and once dried ticks tend to ignore it. Picaridin products came out much better.
    Also permethrins are pretty effective on arachnids, but it also breaks down in sunlight. So I am kinda skeptical about how long treated clothing will actually last. I give my pants, shoes and socks a mist during warm season and go figure it seems to do nothing against biting flys for very long.
    Yes, they're not insects technically. But some people claim Permethrin repels them, a point about which I've observed exactly the reverse. I think that's the 'takeaway' here.

    Picaridin causes me to have some sort of allergic reaction so I can't use it. I have some friends who normally use Picaridin who were being eaten alive by some sort of fly in the Adirondacks in August, so they tried Deet and it worked, although it required frequent reapplication to keep these voracious monsters at bay.

    I don't know what the book is on Deet&Ticks, but it seems to work for me. Either that, or for some strange reason it brings me incredible luck.
    UL, because nobody ever asks "How can I make my pack heavier?"

  7. #27
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    I've never used the factory impregnated Insect Shield cloths. But, I have regularly treated my cloths with spray-on permethrin to great success. For me, it keeps ticks at bay or kills them quite effectively if they get on it and stay on it for any length of time. I've actually watched them walk around for a few minutes until they drop off of completely quit moving.

    To the point of the OP. When wearing shorts, I think it's well worth treating socks, shoes and shorts with permethrin. I know lots of people that have great success with DEET against ticks. I really hate the smell of DEET, and it requires frequent reapplication, so I avoid it for esthetic reasons and just use permethrin as my chemical tick protectant. I also use picaridin, with good success against biting insects. DEET is more effective against ticks than picaridin, but with permethrin and picaridin together, along with reasonably consistent (far from perfect) tick checking, I've done well against the buggers for years.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  8. #28

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    Permethrin is a contact insecticide. Its does not repel ticks until they are in contact with the product. It would great if it could be applied directly to the skin but it breaks down. DEET on the other hand does not kill the bugs as much as camouflage the user as something that is not worth biting. Deet is a solvent and it soaks into your skin. The military figured that out and developed lower percentage DEET products designed to stay on top of the skin. 3M Ultrathon is 33% DEET, but its mixed with other products that keep the DEET from absorbing into the skin. That means it lasts far longer than regular DEET and a side benefit is that its far less aggressive to plastics than 100% DEET products. 100% DEET is cheap to make and distribute, just buy a drum of it, put it in bottle that will not melt and sell it. Products like Ultrathon cost more as it needs to be blended.

    Permethrin gets abraded off the surface and unless its on the surface of the fabric the tick will not be in contact with it. I use zip off nylon pants and try to be careful to limit washing the legs unless they are real dirty and make sure to reapply Permethrin during the season to them. Tick in the brush will not latch onto treated fabric but if they get on your shoes the tick can still crawl up the legs under the pant legs unless the pant legs are tucked into the socks.

    I was in a ticky area once with treated pants tucked into my socks. At the end of the hike I noticed ticks on my socks but not on my pant legs. I took off the socks and found in excess of 10 on the top cuff of each sock. I hike with trail runners and use the "dirty girl" type gaiters and find that spraying the gaiters help but ticks generally hop on their hosts by hanging out on the tips of branches of brush and some are going to be higher than the hikers ankle. Without some treated fabric the hikers legs, the are going to land and head up until they find a spot to hide and then bite.

  9. #29

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    Good to know about Ultrathon... and I'll have to try the spray Permethrin, get some Martins and mix it I suppose.
    UL, because nobody ever asks "How can I make my pack heavier?"

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropdeadfred View Post
    Well you cant claim they lied... Ticks arnt insects.

    The very first line of copy on Insect Shield's website reads:

    Repel ticks and mosquitoes with Insect Shield’s line of permethrin-treated repellent clothing.

  11. #31

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    humm so apparently they dont know ticks arnt insects either.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropdeadfred View Post
    humm so apparently they dont know ticks arnt insects either.

    There's nothing in the sentence I quoted from their website that claims that ticks are insects. Do you have a quibble with their company name or something? You want them to change to "Insect and Arachnid Shield"? Come on.

  13. #33
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    Thanks again for all the replies. It seems people have mixed experience with permethrin and ticks. Assuming it does work to prevent them from latching on under treated socks and snug clothes-

    Any thoughts on either fully treating boxer-brief underwear or at least the bottom 2" of the legs to stop ticks and chiggers from crawling under? It seems there's no more exposure of sweaty skin to the permethrin there than with treated socks or a shirt.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimqpublic View Post
    Thanks again for all the replies. It seems people have mixed experience with permethrin and ticks. Assuming it does work to prevent them from latching on under treated socks and snug clothes-

    Any thoughts on either fully treating boxer-brief underwear or at least the bottom 2" of the legs to stop ticks and chiggers from crawling under? It seems there's no more exposure of sweaty skin to the permethrin there than with treated socks or a shirt.
    The trick with ticks is to keep them from getting to the point they can latch on.
    Sprayed on permethrin absolutely works.
    Nothing works 100%.

    #1) Keep the buggers from getting where the would like to latch on.

    So, don't give them any chance of getting under your cloths and next to your skin. Best solution would be long pants tucked into socks, in shoes, with dirty-girl gaiters, or the like, all sprayed with permethrin. That way they don't have a direct path to your skin and you're killing them before they have a chance to get very far.

    Compression shorts are a popular solution for many people to hike in.

    Boxer briefs should also work well as they are tight on your leg, keeping the ticks out of the warm, moist, dark areas they love most to borrow into.

    I would not recommend actually treating your underwear, although many people do, without issue, against manufacturers recommendations.
    By and large, ticks don't crawl under cloths that are stretchy and against the skin. They crawl through opportunistic gaps.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  15. #35

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    I hate ticks! I wished we could eradicate them! I treat shoes, socks, pants, shorts, hats, pack, ... you get the point... with Permethrin. I get the ready to use stuff from Sawyer. Ive read that you can get the concentrated solution from farm supply stores and mix your own dilution... but its very important to get it right.

    I also rub Picturcean on my exposed skin legs and arms mostly. This year I am going to try out a essential oil type spray for the flying insects..

    I still get ticks on me but I usually catch them before they start biting.. Ive heard that they typically wait awhile before biting...

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Time Zone View Post
    There's nothing in the sentence I quoted from their website that claims that ticks are insects. Do you have a quibble with their company name or something? You want them to change to "Insect and Arachnid Shield"? Come on.
    "Multi-legged and/or Winged Pest Shield"

    Classic pedantry.
    UL, because nobody ever asks "How can I make my pack heavier?"

  17. #37

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    Here is an article about how permethrin affects ticks. It suggests that ticks ability to bite is affected after contact with permethrin. A tick that can't bite isn't much of problem.

    https://entomologytoday.org/2018/05/...ated-clothing/
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBob View Post
    Here is an article about how permethrin affects ticks. It suggests that ticks ability to bite is affected after contact with permethrin. A tick that can't bite isn't much of problem.

    https://entomologytoday.org/2018/05/...ated-clothing/
    Incredible! Thank you for sharing!

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Time Zone View Post
    There's nothing in the sentence I quoted from their website that claims that ticks are insects. Do you have a quibble with their company name or something? You want them to change to "Insect and Arachnid Shield"? Come on.
    I think they will change it when Peter Pan and Jiff change their product names to Legume Butter.

  20. #40

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    I wear lightweight long pants tucked in to my socks in areas with heavy brush along the trail. All outerwear is treated with permethrin.

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