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  1. #1
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    Default White Mountain Logistics

    Hi there. I am an experienced White Mountains hiker, but those have all been day hikes. I am planning a potential southbound summer section hike through the Whites this June, but I am having a hard time figuring out the logistics of such an undertaking. I am trying to figure out what others have done in the past. I basically have three questions.

    1) How did you handle water in the Whites with all the distance above tree line?

    2) Where were you able to camp in the Whites, given the many camping restrictions, especially around the Huts?

    3) How did you do resupply in the Whites?

    Any help is appreciated.

    Hawk

  2. #2

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    1-I found water a non issue all the way through the whites. Most of the huts are above tree line so they offer spigot water to break those sections up, however I also found water sources to be a plenty above tree line as well.

    2-This is tough from anyone's perspective. From my observations while hiking through there last year, a lot of people do not follow the rules as there were many many stealth spots for 1-2 tents.
    I would strongly encourage setting a cap on your MPD to 12-13 and due to logistics, always sway to the low end of that mileage when having to make a sleeping choice. I would normally encourage you to do some slack packing to get through the stretch but it sounds like you have been there done that and are wanting the backpacking experience.


    3- Main roads are the only roads in the whites.
    -NH 25 - Hostel there that offers shuttle to store
    -Kinsman Notch - Lots of traffic main road
    -Franconia Notch - The notch hostel and taxi services
    -Crawford Notch - Lots of traffic main road
    -Pinkham Notch - Lots of Traffic main road
    -Gorham, NH

    I went through there in June and had 2 fantastically perfect days over the Presidentials.

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  3. #3

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    For resupply you may want to consider caching using bear cans or PTC hangs. You live close enough to head over to stash in advance so you never really have to leave the trail. You want to make sure you are caching somewhere others won't likely come across it and of course you have to be able to get back there to find it yourself. There is a lot of traffic on the trails in the Whites, but few venture very far into the woods around them.

    Camping is actually allowed in a lot of places along the trail if you get 200' (about 70 paces) into the woods. Some of those spots right on trail are actually legal, though many aren't. Still, a few minutes walk will get you far enough off trail to camp in peace instead of where 300 people have peed.

    As for water you should come prepared to carry a fair amount to get you through the dry areas. If you have experience in the Whites you have some idea of how long it will take you to get from point to point. Make sure you have plenty of capacity to manage that. I use a 3L gravity system I put together from random bits. That lets me fill my bottles with 1.5L, the clean bag with 3L and if I really want to lug a ton of water up a mountain I can fill the dirty bag for 3L more. Almost never fill them all, but I have the capacity if I want to dry camp a ridge so I can still rehydrate at night and have coffee in the morning.
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  4. #4

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    My observations as a local and a former Westbrook Resident

    Water is rarely an issue , the biggest PITA is from Liberty Springs to Garfield. There is plenty of water and usually snacks and all you can eat soup at Greenleaf Hut but its way down from the summit of Lafayette. (1 mile and 1000 feet of elevation. There are occasionally water sources going down North Lafayette into the col between North Lafayette and Garfield summit. All the AMC huts and campsites have water sources. Guyot is quite far off the AT so best to fill up at Galehead and go all the way to Zealand Hut. Fill up be fore heading up Webster Cliffs as its pretty dry all the way to Mizpah/Naumen tentsite. From Mitzpah to Lake of the Clouds there one water source as you start to ascend Eisenhower but you need to treat the water as it has high potential for human waste getting into it. There is much better water source on Edmonds Path about 100 yards off the AT. From Lake of the Clouds you can fill up on Washington. The next AT water source is s marked spring just past Mt Clay. It you take the Mt Clay loop over Mt Clay instead of the AT you will need to backtrack on the AT to get to it from the north junction. There is no reliable water until on Mt Adams, there is usually some boggy water in early summer but its not free flowing. Tank up at Madison Hut and then at the Osgood tentsite.

    Campsites can be problem. I will discuss legal options. First thing is read and understand this document https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE...rdb5363715.pdf It is one of the most misunderstood confusing documents out there. It either unintentionally or intentionally confuses Leave No Trace (LNT)principles with the rules. Page 2 is LNT. LNT costs you a bit of Karma, the guidelines are aspiration not rules. So the 200 foot mentioned is a guideline is LNT not a rule. You may be dick, but you dont get fined. The last page is the rules. If the FS is out looking and you camp in the prohibited areas then you can get fined and definitely will be asked to move. Notice what is missing is any reference to the AT. So with the exception of the one wilderness are you actually cross into, Great Gulf, you can camp right in the middle of the trail if you are below treeline and more than a 1/4 of a mile from a developed site. Just because the rules say so doesnt mean the terrain will let you so that is where camping at organized sites makes it easy. AMC has caretakers and they will pack in as many campers as they can and then will suggest overflow sites. The hut crews usually will also direct hikers to overflow sites outside the 1/4 mile. The biggest issue is Lake of Clouds, there are no good options that are legal. A strong hiker can make it past Washington and there is one legal option on the Jewell trail. it not desirable and is dry but if you head down to treeline there is usually a stream that crosses the trail. Fill up and then head down into the woods . The trees will get a bit taller and there is wide spot in the trail usually with fire ring. If you have a small tent you can usually head up under the trees and find a sort of flat spot. Its a popular toilet spot for day hikers so watch your step behind trees. Its legal but it exposed to west and northwest winds. It would be an unpleasant to dangerous place to spend a night with thunderstorm going overhead. There are no legal options until the RMC sites on Mt Adams. BTW the Valley Way tentsites are always full and the options mean heading way down Valley way, most of the side trails off of upper Valley way are on 45 degree slope.

    A popular in the past but definitely illegal spot is Sphinx Col. Its another very dangerous place to be in stormy weather with no where to hide. The FS knows its there and its popularity. I have not been in the ridgeline between Liberty Springs and Haystack for awhile but the FS was posting many formerly legal bootleg sites along the trail as reforestation areas despite being outside the 1/4 mile radius of Liberty Springs. If you go off the AT south towards Liberty there are some flat spots off both sides of the trail but quite boney. Garfield Pond is a legal site but finding a dry spot can be challenge.

    So take you map and the third page of the rules, mark 1/4 mile circles and the named spots along with the side trails that are named and you will have a better idea.

  5. #5

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    I wish everyone would stop talking about "other campsites" it just isn't for the average tourist hiker and counting on using them can get you into serious trouble if 1/you can't find one or 2/someone else is already there. Just stick to the AMC campsites and/or huts and be done with it. It makes it easier on everyone and helps the environment, which gets way too much abuse as it is.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    I wish everyone would stop talking about "other campsites" it just isn't for the average tourist hiker and counting on using them can get you into serious trouble if 1/you can't find one or 2/someone else is already there. Just stick to the AMC campsites and/or huts and be done with it. It makes it easier on everyone and helps the environment, which gets way too much abuse as it is.
    Hear hear

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  7. #7
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    As a south bounder one challenge is camping restrictions around Pinkham Notch, especially since that is a place that could well mark a logical daily end point.

    At the PN road crossing you find the epicenter of the AMC. It has perhaps more activity than you will see anywhere else on the entire trail other than where the trail is routed through a town (someone can fact check me on that).

    If one understands that you cannot camp 1/4 mile from the road as the crow flies, then camping “trail north” is effectively impossible because of the extreme slope once you satisfy that requirement.

    One could find a spot Trail South of the AMC operation that conforms to all LNT guidelines without going all the way to Osgood Tent site, but I gets tricky with the 1/4 mile restrictions (as the crow flies) from the roads, and additional restrictions other Great Wilderness and Cultler River Drainage.

    Best to study maps beforehand if you think you may want to camp in that area, and best to have a tent colored to blend into the background so you won’t send any weekenders or unseasoned officials into a state of apoplexy with your legal and responsible LNT camping choice.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    Best to study maps beforehand if you think you may want to camp in that area, and best to have a tent colored to blend into the background so you won’t send any weekenders or unseasoned officials into a state of apoplexy with your legal and responsible LNT camping choice.
    Never understood wilderness camping where people can see you. As a fur bearing mammal the first thing I want to do when I make camp is let the wind blow through my pelt to dry off. Don't really want folks walking through my camp the rest of the time either really. I find a couple of minutes effort getting into the trees is rewarded with a more relaxing night and morning.

    It isn't about rules or legalities. It is about enjoying the woods in peace. I know there are places where the AT corridor is narrow, but we're talking about the Whites here and there are plenty of trees before you hit private land.
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  9. #9

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    A trail that requires extensive ongoing maintenance isn’t wilderness.

    Sure, some regulations are like a stoplight where a stop sign would do, but most stoplights are a practical control device to ensure the road is safe and useful for all.

    If you can really really LNT, great, but most can’t, so managing things so the traces are clustered and the rest of the trail is less traced makes sense. Yes, it takes away from the freedom of it all.

  10. #10

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    The wilderness is the area that is not the trail. I am in favor of regulations and condensed impact camping when appropriate. I was not encouraging wilderness camping for others of any skill level. In fact I wasn't telling anyone to do anything. I was talking about when people do camp along the trail as opposed to camping farther off the trail and saying that I personally don't understand it.

    Seemed there was room for misinterpretation so I thought I'd clear that up to save folks some time.
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  11. #11
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    I very much encourage wilderness camping in the White Mountains for those capable of not getting lost. This may be beyond the capabilities of some.

    Because of terrain, it can also be difficult or impossible along many (but not all) stretches of the AT. One should not expect to automatically be able to find a suitable campsite everywhere you would like one to be.

    I think its important to note that while the AT skirts a number of designated Wilderness areas, for the most part it does not pass through them. In most WMNF Wilderness Areas campers are required to walk 200’ away from the Trail. Everyone has their own way of estimating this distance. For me, I break the distance down into 4 separate imaginary truck trailers (which measure 53’ or 48’).

    One area along the AT with a near absolute camping prohibition is the Cutler River Drainage section of the Great Gulf Wilderness which skirts the AT as you approach Pinkham Notch. You can still legally camp in that vicinity, but you would need to pitch your tent on the correct side of the trail, and stay 1/4 miles from the roads.

  12. #12

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    The wilderness boundaries were very creatively draw to avoid the AT (with the exception the prior poster mentioned in the Great Gulf Wilderness.) The most creative boundary is the one around Guyot. There is also a suspension bridge above Thoreau Falls that sits just outside a Wilderness boundary. There is only one official campsite in the WMNF wilderness areas which is 13 Falls. If Wilderness rules were followed it could not exist but yet is does with an AMC caretaker.

  13. #13

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    TFalls is an example of the silliness. You have that big protected circle and legal camping right on trail touching one another. Crossing the invisible line changes everything. I follow the rules, but that doesn't mean I understand them.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneStranger View Post
    TFalls is an example of the silliness. You have that big protected circle and legal camping right on trail touching one another. Crossing the invisible line changes everything. I follow the rules, but that doesn't mean I understand them.
    Interesting.

    The falls are definitely worth the very short blue blaze if you are thru hiking.

    Coming down that blue blaze from the other direction can make for a scary crossing. Just throw your pack over, and jump right at the top of the falls. I suppose you could bushwhack for the bridge upstream if the water was high but I expect few do that.

    I am sort of surprised no one has been lost there.

  15. #15

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    I have bushwhacked from the bridge along the south bank to avoid a high water attempt to cross. Its starts out thick and wet but eventually we diverged south a bit and ended up in open softwoods.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    I have bushwhacked from the bridge along the south bank to avoid a high water attempt to cross. Its starts out thick and wet but eventually we diverged south a bit and ended up in open softwoods.
    You aren't the only one. I have read of others reporting being afraid to try to cross when heading north and following the water up towards the AT.

    I have hesitated for a few minutes on more than one occasion in both directions, but always worked up the nerve to make the leap and lived to tell the tale. You miss that step and its a fast ride to the bottom I'd imagine.
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  17. #17
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    Thanks to everyone for their input here. It is appreciated.

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