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  1. #41
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    Re: the weights listed, it's pounds and ounces. So 2.2 is 2 pounds, 2 ounces. 2.12 is 2 pounds, 12 ounces.

  2. #42

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    Just curious, why not include the BA Tigerwall?

  3. #43
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    Tigerwall seems shorter (84 inches) with reports of thin and some reports re: failure in water integrity. I doubt there are major differences, though, so that if a person uses any of these tents and has a good experience, they'll develop a strong loyalty.

    My search and list aren't comprehensive. It's possible I overlooked some candidates, but most of the others I checked were either markedly heavier or far more expensive than these four.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyslayer View Post
    Copper Spur UL 2. Easy setup at 5:00am while the birthday girl slept. Took about 5 minutes without instructions first time. Perfect for one person with extra room for stuff. Really cozy for two people, no extra room, watch your pad sizes.
    The only instruction you need for setting up a Copper Spur (and I had to have someone show me this 'in the field') is how to do it if it's windy...
    1. Stake out the corners of your ground sheet (this assumes you've purchased the matching ground sheet that can set the tent up in "fast fly" mode.
    2. Setup poles with the ground sheet.
    3. Clip tent body to poles.
    4. Attach Fly

    This was such a help when someone say be floundering trying to set poles up with the tent body in the wind.
    that if it is windy, stake out the matching ground cloth (or the corners of your tent body if you don't have a ground cloth) and setup your poles with the ground cloth. THEN clip the tent to the poles

  5. #45
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    Thanks, Hooku. And thanks to all of you for sharing. You provided me with helpful information and also spurred me to think of things different ways, find additional info, etc.

    I think I've decided on the Copper Spur, though I haven't made the purchase yet.

    There may be one negative with the newest version of the CS. The "pole tip captures" (where the ends of the tent poles rest/secure) are now plastic instead of metal. This might affect durability, and a failure could be serous and difficult/impossible to fix on the trail. But the feature may be too new for owners to offer feedback ("it works just great and is durable" or "wow, this stinks").

  6. #46
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    hey dan i would do some more research on the nemo tents .that vent cut out on the fly is a design flaw imo.
    i used alot of tents over the years currently using copper spur ul2 split with the wife its tight compared to the six moons lunar duo we switched from.
    but we wanted a free stand

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Roper View Post
    Thanks, Hooku. And thanks to all of you for sharing. You provided me with helpful information and also spurred me to think of things different ways, find additional info, etc.

    I think I've decided on the Copper Spur, though I haven't made the purchase yet.

    There may be one negative with the newest version of the CS. The "pole tip captures" (where the ends of the tent poles rest/secure) are now plastic instead of metal. This might affect durability, and a failure could be serous and difficult/impossible to fix on the trail. But the feature may be too new for owners to offer feedback ("it works just great and is durable" or "wow, this stinks").
    the one thing about the copper spur the zippers are delicate i tore it off the first time out.i dont think i would be crazy about the plastic pole thing either.that said if your careful its a great tent

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jigsaw View Post
    . . .i dont think i would be crazy about the plastic pole thing either.that said if your careful its a great tent
    This is the same conversation I remember having when backpack makers started moving away from metal buckles to plastic ones in the early 80's.
    How many backpacks do you see today with metal buckles?
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  9. #49
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    For what it's worth, my go-to tent, (i.e. when I'm going on trips with people that insist on closing themselves into a hermetically sealed box every night) is a Copper Spur. And, for what it's worth, I would actually trust BA pretty far with design choices. If they're using plastic bits somewhere, it's for a reason. And, if they are less durable (unlikely in my experience) it's a engineering trade-off made in the interest of improving the tent, no just trying to build it cheaper.

    That being said, the elastic in my CS poles died after only about three years. Easy enough to fix, but annoying to deal with, and geez guys, I'd take a couple grams more weight to not have to rethread my poles after three years.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traffic Jam View Post
    Good thread...Iíve also been considering a free-standing tent and top of my list is the Tiger Wall. Astro, how do feel in the 1 person? Does it feel like a coffin?
    That was the complaint people often had with the Fly Creek UL1. While I was OK with it, I will say the Tiger Wall seems much more spacious (especially above) and the side door makes it easier to get in and out of. With my advancing age and arthritis should be well worth the extra 2 ounces.
    The road to glory cannot be followed with much baggage.
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Roper View Post
    There may be one negative with the newest version of the CS. The "pole tip captures" (where the ends of the tent poles rest/secure) are now plastic instead of metal. This might affect durability, and a failure could be serous and difficult/impossible to fix on the trail. But the feature may be too new for owners to offer feedback ("it works just great and is durable" or "wow, this stinks").
    Just looked at her brand new CS set up one time in the living room. The tent body pole captures are plastic. They seem fairly robust, but time will tell.

    The pole captures on the footprint are metal. So that could serve as a backup and with some creative staking and perhaps a little cordage you could be confident in the field.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyslayer View Post
    . . .The pole captures on the footprint are metal. So that could serve as a backup and with some creative staking and perhaps a little cordage you could be confident in the field.
    Except few people in their right mind carry and use footprints, even though you may be one of them. I wouldn't ever buy a tent expecting the footprint to serve as a vital structural piece. BUT, I would buy a BA CS, even with plastic bits, without hesitation because I think BA generally makes exceptionally good tents. Of course, I feel the same way about MSR and a handful of other reputable tent makers.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsherry61 View Post
    I wouldn't ever buy a tent expecting the footprint to serve as a vital structural piece.
    Good point, the tent is fully functional without the footprint if you prefer to not carry one. With a needle and thread/floss you could likely create a pocket in the corner tent webbing to capture a pole end in an emergency without the footprint. As noted, the brand new plastic grommets look robust. I think if you monitor the condition of your gear you would likely see a failure coming in advance.

  14. #54
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    I volleyed back and forth trying to decide between the CS2 and the TW2. I finally opted for the Tiger Wall 2. I haven't had it out of the box yet but will do so soon. I wanted a true freestanding which the CS2 is but decided staking out the two corners with the TW2 was a small concession to make for ~6oz savings.

    Hopefully it was the right decision. Time will tell.

  15. #55
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    I'm the opposite, I would never NOT use a footprint with a CS. For the extra 6oz you get a tarp to layout gear on when the ground/grass is soaking wet, a sun shield, the FastFly setup for either a rain shelter or to pitch the tent when its pouring rain without getting the inner wet. I've also used it as a privacy curtain to take in camp showers. Yet another benefit is after a rain storm when you camp on bare ground it can prevent your tent bottom from getting muddy and then it gets packed in its own bag, containing any dirt/mud. I've often setup my tent in the dark without worrying about policing up anything that might damage the tent floor because of the footprints protection. It also can allow you to choose that more level campsite that has a small sharp rock in versus the one thats not level.

    On a different topic I wonder why BA designs their bikepack tent footprints for the CS and others with coverage for the vestibules. This seem counter to conventional wisdom saying a footprint should be smaller than your tent bottom by a little. I'm tempted to try one as I also have the CS Hotel fly which I love but will admit its convenience is heavily offset by the weight increase. But definitely nice for bikepacking.

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crossup View Post
    On a different topic I wonder why BA designs their bikepack tent footprints for the CS and others with coverage for the vestibules. This seem counter to conventional wisdom saying a footprint should be smaller than your tent bottom by a little.
    The footprint needs to be smaller than the protection from above so it doesn't draw falling rain under the tent. Extending under the vestibule is totally fine.

  17. #57
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    I agree with your statement but my question is more of if its ok for bikepacking why is it not designed that way for backpacking. Only thing I can think of it saves perhaps an ounce.

    I know of no limitation to using a bikepack version on a backpack tent beyond the obvious need to match the tent year as pre 2020 uses a different buckle design. Thats probably going to be only a small issue as a German guy has already made 3D printed adapters(google tiplok adapter) to use an old footprint with a 2020 tent and I'm working on the opposite type of adapter since I own a 2017 but no footprint for it beyond a 2020 model.

    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    The footprint needs to be smaller than the protection from above so it doesn't draw falling rain under the tent. Extending under the vestibule is totally fine.

  18. #58

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    I'm partial to Tarptent and the Double Rainbow (non-DCF model) but you may want to check out the new Sea To Summit line of tents. They seem very well designed, fairly light and they have both freestanding and semi-freestanding models. If REI stocks them, I plan to pick one up this year. The non-DCF tarptents are closer to your $300 price point. The Sea To Summits are closer to $400-500 (although REI usually has several 20% one item each year).

    A bivy is not a bad way to go, in terms of price and weight. However, they are not tents. If you've never used one, try one before you commit. They're great when you're solo and/or climbing/at altitude and minimizing weight (and maybe not sleeping much, anyway), but can be claustrophobic while sleeping if you're not used to them. Also hard to hang out or change clothes in them. Basically for sleeping only. I've gotten a lot of comments from others when I'm in my bivy - "Is someone in there? I can't believe anyone can sleep in that thing..." That said, I LOVE my very old, very well made and still waterproof Integral Designs bivy. I'm not sure they make them or are around anymore.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crossup View Post
    I'm the opposite, I would never NOT use a footprint with a CS. For the extra 6oz you get a tarp to layout gear on when the ground/grass is soaking wet, a sun shield, the FastFly setup for either a rain shelter or to pitch the tent when its pouring rain without getting the inner wet. I've also used it as a privacy curtain to take in camp showers. Yet another benefit is after a rain storm when you camp on bare ground it can prevent your tent bottom from getting muddy and then it gets packed in its own bag, containing any dirt/mud. I've often setup my tent in the dark without worrying about policing up anything that might damage the tent floor because of the footprints protection. It also can allow you to choose that more level campsite that has a small sharp rock in versus the one thats not level.
    I can't tell if you are arguing for or against a tent foot print???

    And if you are going to limit yourself to 6oz. seems like you are going to limit yourself to one of the following three things:
    1. A very small tarp (oh, say the size of a tent footprint),
    2. A very expensive (can you say "cuben fiber"),
    3. Something totally different (polycro window film).

  20. #60

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    I read it as Crossup felt like adding 6 ounces for a footprint was a good trade.

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