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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bert304 View Post
    I have the Soto Micro Regulator stove at 2.6 oz and the Toaks 900ml pot with lid at 4.4 oz so a total of 7 oz. If the Stash weighs 7 oz what would I gain by switching?
    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_rob View Post
    Maybe about 25-30% greater fuel efficiency, meaning a given canister will last more days, allowing more resupply flexibility and options. this is probably only important if you're a heavy hot water user, as I am (3-4 heats a day). A small canister will last me a week with my jetboil, but only 5 days with my pocket-rocket and conventional pot. I did a lot of testing of this about 10-12 years ago.

    The higher fuel efficiency is mostly about the heat exchanger on the bottom of the jetboil pots. If you have a HX on your toaks pot, then you're good. Or if you don't boil a lot of water, you're also good.
    ^^^^^^ Spot on!

    Which is why I hope they sell that pot alone eventually. Make a lighter lid and handles maybe... hard to say until I've got it in my mitts. Still going to need a somewhat tall-ish windscreen or other plan for a wind block.

  2. #42
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    I still have my original jet boil. It might be heavy on some scale yet it has been my go to for so long, it is reliable as all get out; besides, since i make my own backpacking meals i have portioned them to be the perfect serving size according to the volume i have. Now that being said it seems this year i will be pairing up a lot on adventures and will highly suggest this new model to her. Thanks for the heads up. Good informative thread.
    sooner or later there comes a time

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    Do you have a wild guess on how much fuel you end up using to make something like that? I love the concept, just trying to wrap my head around what's involved with doing it on a trip.
    I have a titanium fry pan that I will try using along with a Fancee Feest alcohol stove with the simmer ring to slow the heat down. I suspect no more than 1 ounce denatured alcohol. A cast iron pan is for car camping that I will be doing alot of this year.

    ....titanium fry pan....titanium fry pan

  4. #44

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    And if we're talking very round numbers... an ounce of denatured alcohol would be about a half ounce of canister fuel (assuming similarly efficient configurations)?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    And if we're talking very round numbers... an ounce of denatured alcohol would be about a half ounce of canister fuel (assuming similarly efficient configurations)?
    Good point... 1/2oz (15g) of canister fuel will boil 1.5L of water, so that's quite a bit of energy required.

    BUT, I love bannock and it's totally worth it under the right circumstances!

  6. #46

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    Oh believe me - I was sold from the photo! Just figuring out the sorts of planning adjustments I'd need to make to add such things to my trips.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    Oh believe me - I was sold from the photo! Just figuring out the sorts of planning adjustments I'd need to make to add such things to my trips.
    LOL I've had bannock made old-school by friends in Canada who use lard and it is insanely tasty given the few ingredients that are used, especially with genuine Southern cane syrup and butter. I smuggled the cane syrup in just for that purpose.

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    Half ounce for the 6" titanium pan, 3 min per side. I have not tried it yet, this is new territory for me. I wanna add raisins/dates and cinnamon to the recipe for extra goodness. All dry ingredients in a ziploc, add water and 2 tbl olive oil at breakfast time B&M brownbread with raisins for dinner.

  9. #49
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    recent recipe that I tried:

    Traditional Bannock of the Western Arctic that uses seal oil




    I tried their hole in the dough method for even heating/cooking

    PXL_20210131_202432270.jpgPXL_20210131_214736936.jpg
    Last edited by zelph; 02-01-2021 at 17:00.

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  11. #51
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    Nice video but I wish he had used a bigger To pot to better match the size of the Stash. Surprised the conventional pots and stoves used over 10 g of fuel. I expect he could have gotten better efficiency by using a bigger pot an cutting back on the power. Power and efficiency are usually mutually exclusive. In a quarter mile race, the Viper beats my Prius. But give us botva gallon of gas in a 50 mile race, I win. Heat exchangers allow you to do reasonably well with both. By transferring more heat to the pot, you simultaneously increase both efficiency and power. Many (most?) stove testers confuse these two terms. Since they are both variables, it would make more sense to fix one and then optimize the other. For example, pick a power you would be happy with (4 min boil, eg) and then find which system is most efficient (is least fuel consumption) at that power.

    I use less than 15 g of alcohol to boil 0.5 Liters in 4 minutes. The problem is that Olicamp pot is larger and heavier than I like. I'll need to weigh my kit to see how many grams I could save for ONLY $130. (and get a gas stove I could use if I want).

  12. #52
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    I use less than 15 g of alcohol to boil 0.5 Liters in 4 minutes. The problem is that Olicamp pot is larger and heavier than I like. I'll need to weigh my kit to see how many grams I could save for ONLY $130. (and get a gas stove I could use if I want).


    What stove/pot setup are you using for that? 15g of denatured alcohol is about 18.8ml by volume, which is pretty darn good. I get similar performance with the Sterno Inferno setup.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    What stove/pot setup are you using for that? 15g of denatured alcohol is about 18.8ml by volume, which is pretty darn good. I get similar performance with the Sterno Inferno setup.[/COLOR]
    It had been a while since I did a stove test and I wasn't 100% sure I was remembering the specs correctly or had tested after my last system tweek.
    So I did another test today in my kitchen. The relevance for this thread is how effective the new Stash pot may be with alcohol, giving the system more versatility.

    My system:
    Olicamp XTS Pot modified with MYOG handles (clothes hanger wire) and lid (Al foil): 183 g
    MYOG easy capillary hoop stove (eCHS) by Tetkoba: 9 g
    MYOG combination pot stand/wind screen (cylinder of aluminum flashing): 10 g
    MYOG pot cozy made from silver Mylar coated foam car sunscreen and Al tape: 14 g
    MYOG insulted heat reflecting base (same material as cozy): 1 g
    Not included is pot scrubber (<1g) and BIC lighter.
    Total = 217 g = 7.65 oz

    The test: 473 g (2 cups) of room temp water (22.7 C) weighed on an electronic balance.
    15.0 mL of Kleen Strip Denatured Alcohol measured in a 25 mL graduated cylinder.
    The spec sheet says this fuel is a ethanol/methanol mixture with a density = 0.796 g/mL so 15.0 mL = 11.9 g
    Test done in my kitchen. Digital thermometer used to measure temp every 15 seconds. Data below:

    stove.JPG
    Results. Using the "it looks like it's boiling now" benchmark used by all stove testers, this came to a boil at about 4:20.
    If you extrapolate the linear range of the curve, the pot would have reached 100 C at 4:30.
    At 5:00, max temp of 99.6 C was reached. The stove burned out somewhere between 4:45 and 5:00

    BTW, I did a cold temperature test this system a few years back. The air, stove, and fuel were at -5 F (the water was room temperature).
    Except for taking 45 seconds of lag time to get started, the stove performed about the same.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd Man Out View Post
    It had been a while since I did a stove test and I wasn't 100% sure I was remembering the specs correctly or had tested after my last system tweek.
    So I did another test today in my kitchen. The relevance for this thread is how effective the new Stash pot may be with alcohol, giving the system more versatility.

    My system:
    Olicamp XTS Pot modified with MYOG handles (clothes hanger wire) and lid (Al foil): 183 g
    MYOG easy capillary hoop stove (eCHS) by Tetkoba: 9 g
    MYOG combination pot stand/wind screen (cylinder of aluminum flashing): 10 g
    MYOG pot cozy made from silver Mylar coated foam car sunscreen and Al tape: 14 g
    MYOG insulted heat reflecting base (same material as cozy): 1 g
    Not included is pot scrubber (<1g) and BIC lighter.
    Total = 217 g = 7.65 oz

    The test: 473 g (2 cups) of room temp water (22.7 C) weighed on an electronic balance.
    15.0 mL of Kleen Strip Denatured Alcohol measured in a 25 mL graduated cylinder.
    The spec sheet says this fuel is a ethanol/methanol mixture with a density = 0.796 g/mL so 15.0 mL = 11.9 g
    Test done in my kitchen. Digital thermometer used to measure temp every 15 seconds. Data below:

    stove.JPG
    Results. Using the "it looks like it's boiling now" benchmark used by all stove testers, this came to a boil at about 4:20.
    If you extrapolate the linear range of the curve, the pot would have reached 100 C at 4:30.
    At 5:00, max temp of 99.6 C was reached. The stove burned out somewhere between 4:45 and 5:00

    BTW, I did a cold temperature test this system a few years back. The air, stove, and fuel were at -5 F (the water was room temperature).
    Except for taking 45 seconds of lag time to get started, the stove performed about the same.
    Good test very similar to how I went about it when doing a lot of stove testing!

    And VERY similar results as well, approaching the weight-speed-efficiency trifecta in alcohol stoving.

    Do you have a photo of the pot stand/windscreen? I'm very happy with the Sterno Inferno (system weight 5.82oz) but have an XTS pot and it'd be cool to have the option for the larger volume if splitting the load. The Inferno flux ring shroud has a handy step-down in diameter, so it nests very neatly with the pot stand/windscreen and is very stable. I'm hoping there's some way to make the XTS similarly stable, or perhaps I'll just have to be careful to find a flat and level surface for deploying.

  15. #55
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    Here are pictures of stand with the pot, just the stand, and a cutting diagram. It is just a cylinder of aluminum flashing.
    Cut a rectangle that is 13 1/4" long and as wide as you need it (mine is 2 1/4" wide). For my stove, I wanted the burners at the top of the stove to be 1 1/4" from the bottom of the pot. The stove is 1 1/2" tall so the bottom of the bottom of the pot has to be 2 3/4" above the ground. But heat exchanger extends 1/2" below the bottom of the pot so subtract 1/2" from 2 3/4" to get 2 1/4" tall pot stand. Adjust for your burner needs. I punched two rows of 1/4" holes (with a paper hole punch) on 1/2" centers across the bottom. There are no holes at the top so that the heat is all forced through the heat exchanger (NOTE: I haven't really tested to determine the optimum air flow - I just cut a lot of holes). Fold 1/2" flaps on both ends (in opposite directions) to make interlocking tabs to form a cylinder with an 11 3/4" circumference (3 3/4" diameter). This will place it right in the middle of the heat exchanger.

    Tabs are trivial to interlock so you can open it up for storage if you want. But since the stand is smaller than the pot, you can leave it assembled for storage (that's what I do). Aluminum flashing is not ultralight, but it is pretty much bomb proof, so the this stand is pretty stable - important for me as I have spilled more than one meal when I used narrow or flimsy pot stands. The stand is still very light because so little material is needed (say compared to a Caldera Cone). This is the BIG ADVANTAGE of the heat exchanger - It allows the pot stand to double as the wind screen. Not only does it increase efficiency and power, it cuts down on the weight and complexity of the system (one less piece carry and nothing to assemble).

    It's not in the picture, but I also cut a circle of silver Mylar coated thin foam (cut from a car sunscreen) that is the same diameter as the interior of the pot, thus slightly larger than the pot stand. It's there to be base for the system, a heat reflector, and to protect the surface. It's probably not necessary but it weighs less than a gram and you know all the burn marks on the shelter picnic tables? They are not from me. I use the same car sunscreen material and aluminum tape to make the pot cosy (also not shown).
    stove1.jpg stove2.jpg stove3.jpg

  16. #56
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    Thank you! Looks very similar to the ones I made for the Inferno. I'm inspired to play with this some more.

    For the Sterno pot... in Ti and stainless steel. Started out with 3.25" height, now 3"

    SS_and_Ti_pot_stands.jpg

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    Thank you! Looks very similar to the ones I made for the Inferno. I'm inspired to play with this some more.
    For the Sterno pot... in Ti and stainless steel. Started out with 3.25" height, now 3"
    I'm not familiar with the inferno. I saw some videos that showed 12 min to boil 2 cups with sterno (pretty slow) but much faster with alcohol stoves. What type of stove are you using? One video gave the pot weight (no lid) as 126 g. That's about the same weight as the Stash pot, but the Stash seems bigger. I don't think the Inferno would be big enough for me. I know the Olicamp is a bit bigger than I need. I'm thinking the Stash pot is just the right size for what I do which is boiling 2 cups of water with about 150 g of dry food and then letting set in the pot cozy. Also the Stash is anodized. It doesn't look like the Inferno is anodized. Is that correct? Also, what advantage to your DIY pot stoves have over the one that comes with the Inferno? Is it just weight?

  18. #58
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    Inferno pot with titanium cone used with the Starlyte XL3 burner. Awesome combination for sure.


  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd Man Out View Post
    I'm not familiar with the inferno. I saw some videos that showed 12 min to boil 2 cups with sterno (pretty slow) but much faster with alcohol stoves. What type of stove are you using? One video gave the pot weight (no lid) as 126 g. That's about the same weight as the Stash pot, but the Stash seems bigger. I don't think the Inferno would be big enough for me. I know the Olicamp is a bit bigger than I need. I'm thinking the Stash pot is just the right size for what I do which is boiling 2 cups of water with about 150 g of dry food and then letting set in the pot cozy. Also the Stash is anodized. It doesn't look like the Inferno is anodized. Is that correct? Also, what advantage to your DIY pot stoves have over the one that comes with the Inferno? Is it just weight?
    Yep, the Inferno pot w/o lid is 126.8g and volume is really around 600mL depending on how much 'headroom' you prefer. Stash pot is listed as 800mL, and I think that implies 800mL plus some headroom, and if the Stash pot weight includes the lid, that's pretty impressive. So if you actually cook in the pot Stash is going to be better. With rare exceptions, my food needs are based on 2 cups so the Inferno works for me. The inferno is not anodized but for me that has not been a problem.

    I previously used a Groove stove with the Inferno but MikekiM enticed me to try the Toaks Siphon and it is more fuel efficient so that's what I use now. With the Inferno, you buy the kit for $25 and throw everything but the pot into the recycling bin, then make your own lid and pot stand/windscreen and use your alcohol stove of choice.

    I hardly ever use canister stoves outside of winter, and even then only if there's no running water available... so basically it's a snow melter. I've been using MiniMo for a long time and the Stash system would definitely offer a significant weight savings and I'm sure I could still easily melt snow for myself with 800mL capacity. So I could be enticed to buy one.

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by zelph View Post
    Inferno pot with titanium cone used with the Starlyte XL3 burner. Awesome combination for sure.
    I apologize if I've missed this previously - what's the source for the titanium cone you're using in that photo? Also, assuming I use a starlyte xl3 like you pictured - how would I go about adjusting the flame if I wanted to transition between water boiling and baking something? Thanks!

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