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  1. #81
    Registered User LittleRock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    again, i will say that sadly this is not a true statement.... with my job that i just got outta of-----i've covered maybe 6 or 7 deaths due to off leashed dogs.....and numerous serious maulings with off leashed dogs.....bottom line, imo, dogs on a leash that are controlled by their owners are going to be safer all around than dogs off a leash.......(and yes, leash size matters).....
    Yeah, and down in TN where you are it was not just the unleashed dogs hiking with their owners... it was also hunting dogs that were out on their own with their owners nowhere in sight. One time one of them ran through the shelter area where I was sitting making dinner and took off with my summer sausage which was sitting next to me on the picnic table. I had to chase it 200 yards down the trail and yell at it before it dropped it and ran off. On that same stretch I ran into a thru hiker who made the mistake of feeding one of those hunting dogs and it followed him all the way to Damascus, which was over 30 miles away!
    It's all good in the woods.

  2. #82
    Registered User JNI64's Avatar
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    That is a very tough one for sure. But at this point we're talking a real life threatening attack not a nip on the calf. But if cujo is attacking and you have the means to stop the threat shoot. I don't carry a firearm but a may have to stop threat ending the dogs life.
    If the pet owner loved their dog like a family member they would protect it and make sure it is leashed and kept back when passing on a tight path.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by stephanD View Post
    That's a tough one....many pet owners regard their pet as a family member
    I'd also shoot your brother if he tries to bite my leg
    The older I get, the faster I hiked.

  4. #84

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    That seems excessive.

    Though if zombies were an active threat, I might think otherwise.

  5. #85
    Registered User JNI64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ankle Bone View Post
    I'd also shoot your brother if he tries to bite my leg
    I was going to say something like this. Any member of your family attacks me I'd defend myself as well. And sometimes I wonder who deserves the collar and leash. The pet or some family members. And hey it is zombie season so you never know !!

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by stephanD View Post
    That's a tough one....many pet owners regard their pet as a family member
    Quote Originally Posted by Ankle Bone View Post
    I'd also shoot your brother if he tries to bite my leg
    That's why his brother is always on a leash when he is outdoors.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by JNI64 View Post
    I have a low tolerance for idiots and their shenanigans period !!
    Your first post welcome! I think if your firearm is legally carried you can protect yourself from a life threatening situation whether it's man or beast. But having said that there's alot to think about such as people around, houses, cars, ( ie, collateral damage). And a charging dog is going to be hard to hit. Probably the safest way would be to let the dog take leg or arm and shoot point blank
    As to not miss and take out the threat.
    Now protecting someone else with a firearm i don't know about that one. But if you have a firearm and someone is getting killed by something how do you not protect someone.
    Thanks for the welcoming JNI64 ...much appreciated!

    I dont want to sound like a dog hater, Im not by far, as a matter of fact when I go for my daily jog at the park, some of the pooches I encounter are so adorable! when we approach at opposite ends and you see them lower their head ,tongue hanging out , tail swinging and have that "please hug me look" how can you deny!!

    ...but if you try/bite me due to the negligence of dog owners... "Houston we have a problem..."

  8. #88
    Registered User JNI64's Avatar
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    You're quite welcome.


    I'm by no means a dog hater either. I've always had dogs my whole life , I love my dogs, a few years ago I had to put 2 of them down. I was balling like a baby.

    The dog i have now is a 80 lb pitbull. He was my daughters and son in-law dog they used to live with me but moved out feb 2019.
    And yeah he's spoiled rotten sleeps with me in a bed, has roam of the house when I'm at work, take walks everyday, always gets bones. My best friend actually. I've had a pretty rough last couple of years and he's been great company and companion.

    Yeah if you or your dog try to bite me ... we have a problem...

  9. #89
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    Actually this has happened before and it did not end well for the shooter who did shoot the two large unleashed dogs that attacked him but then their owner went beserk and the hiker wound up shooting him as well which resulted in the dog owners death.I do not know if the shooter is still in prison or not but the judge did not see it as self defense for some reason..................
    Harold Fish. In 2004, while returning to a trailhead in Arizona, he was attacked by two dogs and then the owner. He was convicted of 2nd degree murder in 2006 or so, went to prison for three years, was freed in 2009 after the conviction was overturned, all the while racking up some $700K in legal costs. He died in 2012 leaving behind an estate deep in debt. https://www.law.umich.edu/special/ex...px?caseid=4266
    I was self employed once, but it proved too stressful. My boss was a jerk and my employee was a slacker - I didn't know whether to quit or fire myself.

  10. #90
    Registered User JNI64's Avatar
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    Wow, that's crazy all that poor guy wanted do was get in his car and go home or go get a cheeseburger and some fries. And he didnít even try to shoot the dogs just to scare them away. After the conviction was over turned they should have reimbursed him.
    Obviously they found it justified. He probably didn't have time to shoot warning shots at the man coming at him threatening to kill him. A much harder target than the torso but maybe he could have shot at his legs? But you hit the femoral artery he still dies.
    Oh well that's not a smart thing to do to a person holding a gun !
    .
    Last edited by JNI64; 10-27-2020 at 23:41.

  11. #91

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    Reading between the lines-this was clearly a case of a judge making an example of an armed citizen.Licensed gun toters need to know the real issue starts after the initial issue is over..........

  12. #92

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    Sadly, we will never know if things could/would have turned differently if Mr. Fish did not ​have a gun and I will say no more about this.

  13. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by stephanD View Post
    Sadly, we will never know if things could/would have turned differently if Mr. Fish did not ​have a gun and I will say no more about this.
    I'll say something-everyone should carry a non lethal weapon like pepper spray,bear spray,stun gun etc if they do carry a lethal weapon and hope it will be enough before resorting to lethal force because there is always going to be a court case later.

  14. #94

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    When I hiked in Glacier, they made me buy a can of bear spray. Okay fine. But the only place I could really carry it was on the back of my pack. Lot of good it would do me carried there. Oh, could you please just wait a minute while I drop my pack and get my spray out?

    That's pretty much the problem with any self defense hardware, how to carry it so it's safe and yet quickly accessible?
    Follow slogoen on Instagram.

  15. #95
    Registered User JNI64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephanD View Post
    Sadly, we will never know if things could/would have turned differently if Mr. Fish did not ​have a gun and I will say no more about this.
    We will never know, but there's a good chance he would have been torn up by 2 large dogs.

  16. #96
    Registered User JNI64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    When I hiked in Glacier, they made me buy a can of bear spray. Okay fine. But the only place I could really carry it was on the back of my pack. Lot of good it would do me carried there. Oh, could you please just wait a minute while I drop my pack and get my spray out?

    That's pretty much the problem with any self defense hardware, how to carry it so it's safe and yet quickly accessible?
    Backpack companies should make a holster that attaches to your pack for bear spray.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNI64 View Post
    Backpack companies should make a holster that attaches to your pack for bear spray.

    Counter Assault bear spray makes one that can be attached at your belt or maybe pack as well. In fact, my last can - the 10 ounce - came with it. Now they sell it separately, it appears. My new can is the 8 oz and the holster still works, just isn't as snug a fit.

  18. #98

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    I have the holster for Counter Assault Bear Spray.It is easily suspended from the should strap and hangs upside down for a Fast deployment.

    Z-Pack makes a very light weight and functional chest pack that is easily attached to your shoulder straps that will easily hold a can of bear spray if you want to keep it concealed.

  19. #99
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    There a couple of bear spray holsters. Use a carabiner to attach it to your waist belt or front pack strap. Also, hang the bear spray upside down; it will come out much easier. If you practice trying to get the bear spray out quickly, you will find that by inverting it, gravity will help you. If you wear it right side up, you will need 2 hands to get it out.
    Be Prepared

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by FŽanor View Post
    Once bitten you're never the same... every time you encounter a dog you'll be nervous, and its always the owners fault! Same **** happens at local township park and there are signs everywhere to always leash your dog.

    I have low tolerance for idiot dog owners and their shenanigans...

    ...not to be incentive but does anyone have the right to shoot the dog if it attacks me or someone?
    Yes. Self defense against an animal is not the same legal standard as use of force against a human. A dog is what? It is property.

    Against a human, you must use "an objectionably reasonable" amount of force to defend yourself. Lethal force can only be used to avoid "death or serious bodily injury". To avoid non-life threatening or serous bodily harm, you can only employ "regular force" ie. a punch, kick, etc.

    Against property, you can use any amount of force to avoid any amount of injury. There is no reasonableness standard. Your property can not injury me at all, and I can destroy your property to avoid any level of injury. The law values human life over property rights.
    Be Prepared

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