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  1. #21
    Registered User JNI64's Avatar
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    Thank you, I read it all crazy they used to make canvas tents with paraffin wax coating for water protection . And i found it interesting that firefighters have spoken out against the practice of flame retardants.
    Last edited by JNI64; 07-22-2020 at 10:57.

  2. #22
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    I just did a quick run through the "interwebs", as my son calls them, and apparently some dwr treatments are much less toxic than others, especially since 2016. No indication on the Hilleberg site as to exactly what dwr treatment they use on their inner tents, at least that I saw. When I get some more time, I'll see if I can get some answers that a non chemistry nerd can understand, and then contact Hilleberg to see what they say. ; )

  3. #23
    Registered User cneill13's Avatar
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    Tipi, I love your trip reports. You are a true badass. Happy 70th.

  4. #24

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    My Hilleberg Allak (2p) is 13 years old. It is as weatherproof as it was on day one. I have used it hundreds of nights and ridden out some mind-boggling weather in it without any water getting inside. One night I set up in a light rain next to a creek. I hurried through the process because I could tell the skies were about to let loose. I climbed in and sure enough it absolutely poured for about an hour. I quickly fell asleep, exhausted. Woke of the next morning and found a little swimming pool created in the umbrella top where the poles cross. I had missed one hook/loop attachment. There was about a half gallon of fresh rainwater in the umbrella and not drop got through it.

    The only "con" about this tent is weight. I got a mesh inner and made some other changes to bring it down to a little over 5lbs. Yeah, that's seems "heavy" these days doesn't it? It's now primarily my winter weather tent but still resides at number 1 on my tent list, by a wide margin.


  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatDane View Post
    I just did a quick run through the "interwebs", as my son calls them, and apparently some dwr treatments are much less toxic than others, especially since 2016. No indication on the Hilleberg site as to exactly what dwr treatment they use on their inner tents, at least that I saw. When I get some more time, I'll see if I can get some answers that a non chemistry nerd can understand, and then contact Hilleberg to see what they say. ; )
    Thanks for the update. I'm pretty (overly) sensitive to chemical stanks (and old Mt Hardwear tents REALLY put out some FR smells) but the only time I notice any kind of Hilleberg smell is when the tent is brand new---smells sort of like an ironing board (remember them?)---or when you iron shirts. Weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by cneill13 View Post
    Tipi, I love your trip reports. You are a true badass. Happy 70th.
    Thanks for the input. Too much of Nature, too little of me.

    Quote Originally Posted by martinb View Post
    My Hilleberg Allak (2p) is 13 years old. It is as weatherproof as it was on day one. I have used it hundreds of nights and ridden out some mind-boggling weather in it without any water getting inside. One night I set up in a light rain next to a creek. I hurried through the process because I could tell the skies were about to let loose. I climbed in and sure enough it absolutely poured for about an hour. I quickly fell asleep, exhausted. Woke of the next morning and found a little swimming pool created in the umbrella top where the poles cross. I had missed one hook/loop attachment. There was about a half gallon of fresh rainwater in the umbrella and not drop got through it.

    The only "con" about this tent is weight. I got a mesh inner and made some other changes to bring it down to a little over 5lbs. Yeah, that's seems "heavy" these days doesn't it? It's now primarily my winter weather tent but still resides at number 1 on my tent list, by a wide margin.

    Martinb---good post and relevant to a Hilleberg discussion. My old Staika umbrella sheet has 6 seams which leaked slightly in heavy rainstorms so I sealed each seam with McNetts silnet.

    It's sort of hard to make a Staika or an Allak a "summer" tent as Hilleberg's tend to become ovens in the summer heat because the fly hugs the ground all around the bottom perimeter. I fixed this problem on my tunnel Keron by using the end guylines to keep the tunnel up and pulling the vestibule fly back to the poles on each end---using clips---



    Your pic reminds me of the fir tree grove on Bob Bald---a great summer location as it's a usually very cool and windy and shady spot for camping---


  6. #26

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    Oh and btw Martinb---I find I can get about 700 nights out of a Hilleberg tent before the kerlon fly is degraded enough to leak because the silicone treatment "rubs off". 700 nights equates to about 4-5 years for me. I tried the NikWax treatment with poor results although I never tried using Atsko water guard---

    41YRHGntAXL._AC_.jpg

  7. #27

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    Walter, my pic is in the fir grove as you were coming from "butt" rock. BTW, the all mesh inner option makes a big difference in warmer temps. With both doors tied back and the large half-moon vents, I'm quite comfortable all but the hottest temps.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    Oh and btw Martinb---I find I can get about 700 nights out of a Hilleberg tent before the kerlon fly is degraded enough to leak because the silicone treatment "rubs off". 700 nights equates to about 4-5 years for me. I tried the NikWax treatment with poor results although I never tried using Atsko water guard---

    41YRHGntAXL._AC_.jpg
    I'm a little more than half way there with the Allak. I've been seeing other tents on some trips (please don't tell her) so it'll be a while before I'll get to 700.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by martinb View Post
    Walter, my pic is in the fir grove as you were coming from "butt" rock. BTW, the all mesh inner option makes a big difference in warmer temps. With both doors tied back and the large half-moon vents, I'm quite comfortable all but the hottest temps.
    Yes, I can now see that your tent is on the high end of the grove---further east towards the butt rock on the ridge---what I call Bob's Wall. Here's the spot shared with some backpackers in 2015---


  10. #30

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    Happy birthday. Glad you had good weather.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    You could also research the new Anaris which uses two hiking poles and is very light. I almost bought one last month---although it's not a winter tent---
    What? First I start hiking in the Cohutta Wilderness, and now you and I have been looking at the SAME tent?!?
    Surely the end of days is upon us!
    It's like I've clicked my way into some kind of alternate reality.

    Can I interest you in a Katabatic Flex model quilt for late spring, or summer, through early fall?

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenM View Post
    Happy birthday. Glad you had good weather.

    What? First I start hiking in the Cohutta Wilderness, and now you and I have been looking at the SAME tent?!?
    Surely the end of days is upon us!
    It's like I've clicked my way into some kind of alternate reality.

    Can I interest you in a Katabatic Flex model quilt for late spring, or summer, through early fall?
    Wow---it's very odd but before this trip I got on the Katabatic website and almost ordered one of their 30F or 40F quilts!! You've just had a mind meld with me and complete insanity is assured.

    Oddly, the reasons for my Anaris/Katabatic interest is not to lighten pack weight but to adjust to our summer furnace temps---as the Anaris can get into a neat fly-less summer configuration---and the quilt offers minimal heat---like a very light blanket.

    But after a person turns 70 he/she doesn't particularly want to invest a lot of money in new items when each trip could be his last. Odd metrics. So I turned my Keron into an Anaris and will stick with my old Marmot down bag for summer.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    Wow---it's very odd but before this trip I got on the Katabatic website and almost ordered one of their 30F or 40F quilts!! You've just had a mind meld with me and complete insanity is assured.

    Oddly, the reasons for my Anaris/Katabatic interest is not to lighten pack weight but to adjust to our summer furnace temps---as the Anaris can get into a neat fly-less summer configuration---and the quilt offers minimal heat---like a very light blanket.

    But after a person turns 70 he/she doesn't particularly want to invest a lot of money in new items when each trip could be his last. Odd metrics. So I turned my Keron into an Anaris and will stick with my old Marmot down bag for summer.
    I just finished reading a story about a 67-year-old man who fell in Joshua Tree and broke his femur. He had a couple liters of water, but had to endure 110-degree heat for 2 days until rescued (he did the responsible thing and left word with his family regarding his hiking plans). Anyway, the comments were almost uniformly harsh, criticizing this "elderly" man for hiking alone. Tipi, I wish you could educate them about what a 70yo can do.

    Seriously though, sometimes I do wonder if any of us (but especially Tipi) will die - alone, in pain, thirsty, nobody looking for us because we're not due back for a while. Stay safe out there!

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by illabelle View Post
    I just finished reading a story about a 67-year-old man who fell in Joshua Tree and broke his femur. He had a couple liters of water, but had to endure 110-degree heat for 2 days until rescued (he did the responsible thing and left word with his family regarding his hiking plans). Anyway, the comments were almost uniformly harsh, criticizing this "elderly" man for hiking alone. Tipi, I wish you could educate them about what a 70yo can do.

    Seriously though, sometimes I do wonder if any of us (but especially Tipi) will die - alone, in pain, thirsty, nobody looking for us because we're not due back for a while. Stay safe out there!
    Will any of us die alone, in pain, thirsty, nobody looking for us??

    To spend any energy thinking about this is wasted energy. Such energy is better spent getting outdoors and backpacking---because life is too short to be spent indoors.

    You bring up the endless What If component to backpacking. What if I get hit by lightning? What if I get rattlesnake bit? What if I get tick disease? What if I get rabies? What if I freeze? Couch potatoes have the same worries---what if I have a stroke? A heart attack? Get a nasty virus?

    Laurence Gonzales wrote a great book---Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, And Why. He ends it with this quote---

    "We can live a life of bored caution and die of cancer."

  14. #34
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    Years ago I found this in an ad for hiking boots (can't remember the brand so I can't properly attribute):

    You could get mauled by a bear and die.
    You could get bit by a snake and die.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get gored by a bison and die.
    You could get struck by lightening and die.
    You could get shot by a hunter and die.
    You could get attacked by fire ants and die.

    Or you could stay home on the couch, eat potato chips and die.


    It's on the wall in my office. Although it probably should be right next to my comfy chair.

    And yes, Tipi, I remember the smell of freshly ironed fabric. When I was a kid, every Tuesday was ironing day, all day. Long before permanent press fabrics, so everything, right down to the sheets and pillowcases, was ironed. I imagine my Mom was thrilled when her girls were old enough to take over that task for her.

    But I digress. I did get a chance to do enough research on dwr treatments on new tents yesterday to be able to ask Hilleberg a reasonably intelligent question. Will try to get on that over the weekend and let you all know what I find out.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    Oddly, the reasons for my Anaris/Katabatic interest is not to lighten pack weight but to adjust to our summer furnace temps---as the Anaris can get into a neat fly-less summer configuration---and the quilt offers minimal heat---like a very light blanket.

    But after a person turns 70 he/she doesn't particularly want to invest a lot of money in new items when each trip could be his last. Odd metrics. So I turned my Keron into an Anaris and will stick with my old Marmot down bag for summer.
    Figured you might want more ventilation. It's warm out there!
    Totally get the "each trip could be my last" thing, 'cause I tend to think that way due to my back, but you also kind of embody the whole "age is just a number" sentiment. Plus you spend so much time outdoors, and in a tent...
    Now you've got me wanting to try sweet potatoes with quinoa, too.

    I've been talking myself in and out of a 2p tent for awhile(my little 1p shelters are a lot less livable with inner nets), and that Anaris checks a lot of boxes for me. I especially like that Hilleberg doesn't make the compromises with materials that other makers do.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatDane View Post
    Years ago I found this in an ad for hiking boots (can't remember the brand so I can't properly attribute):

    You could get mauled by a bear and die.
    You could get bit by a snake and die.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get gored by a bison and die.
    You could get struck by lightening and die.
    You could get shot by a hunter and die.
    You could get attacked by fire ants and die.

    Or you could stay home on the couch, eat potato chips and die.


    It's on the wall in my office. Although it probably should be right next to my comfy chair.

    And yes, Tipi, I remember the smell of freshly ironed fabric. When I was a kid, every Tuesday was ironing day, all day. Long before permanent press fabrics, so everything, right down to the sheets and pillowcases, was ironed. I imagine my Mom was thrilled when her girls were old enough to take over that task for her.

    But I digress. I did get a chance to do enough research on dwr treatments on new tents yesterday to be able to ask Hilleberg a reasonably intelligent question. Will try to get on that over the weekend and let you all know what I find out.
    Stay at home on the couch eating potato chips and die---about says it all.

    Hopefully Hilleberg will give you an adequate explanation of their use of DWR.

    Quote Originally Posted by OwenM View Post
    Figured you might want more ventilation. It's warm out there!
    Totally get the "each trip could be my last" thing, 'cause I tend to think that way due to my back, but you also kind of embody the whole "age is just a number" sentiment. Plus you spend so much time outdoors, and in a tent...
    Now you've got me wanting to try sweet potatoes with quinoa, too.

    I've been talking myself in and out of a 2p tent for awhile(my little 1p shelters are a lot less livable with inner nets), and that Anaris checks a lot of boxes for me. I especially like that Hilleberg doesn't make the compromises with materials that other makers do.
    What's even better is small red potatoes with quinoa.

    If I survive this summer and get past winter I'll most certainly purchase the Anaris next spring in prep for next summer's heat. It's a tent that can go from a full double wall shelter to a fully ventilated tent---

    AnarisSnd-Configurations-FullTent-TrekkingPoles-Closed-2071-ZacharyBurns-sm.jpg
    Full lockdown.

    AnarisSnd-Configurations-FullTent-TrekkingPoles-1WallUp-VestibulesDown-2331-ZacharyBurns-sm.jpg
    Partial venting.

    AnarisSnd-Configurations-FullTent-TrekkingPoles-2WallsUp-2308-ZacharyBurns-sm.jpg
    Complete venting---notice fly is rolled up on top of tent peak.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    Will any of us die alone, in pain, thirsty, nobody looking for us??

    To spend any energy thinking about this is wasted energy. Such energy is better spent getting outdoors and backpacking---because life is too short to be spent indoors.

    You bring up the endless What If component to backpacking. What if I get hit by lightning? What if I get rattlesnake bit? What if I get tick disease? What if I get rabies? What if I freeze? Couch potatoes have the same worries---what if I have a stroke? A heart attack? Get a nasty virus?

    Laurence Gonzales wrote a great book---Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, And Why. He ends it with this quote---

    "We can live a life of bored caution and die of cancer."
    I had that book, then gave it to a young man who was interested in the topic. And of course you're completely right. The couch potatoes may be closer to an ambulance, but who really wants to waste away tethered to civilization because your vital organs are incapacitated by disease? Not me.

  18. #38

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