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  1. #1

    Default The New Tarptent Stratospire Li

    I ordered one as soon as the ordering page opened on Monday. I've been waiting on a 2p SS to be made in DCF for years now. I hope its everything I think it is and meets or exceeds my expectations especially as I already sold my Duplex. Now just to play the impatient waiting game

    Will post thoughts as soon as it arrives and I can set it up.

  2. #2
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Hope you love it!
    I’m still trying to understand your aversion to nylon double wall shelters. Somewhere online is an account by a gentleman whose StratoSpire survived a vicious storm in the mountains of the UK.
    Hopefully the DCF will do as well.
    Enjoy!
    Wayne

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    Hope you love it!
    I’m still trying to understand your aversion to nylon double wall shelters. Somewhere online is an account by a gentleman whose StratoSpire survived a vicious storm in the mountains of the UK.
    Hopefully the DCF will do as well.
    Enjoy!
    Wayne
    Three words...sag when wet

  4. #4
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Mine doesn’t. 6 hours of rain at night. Tight as a drum. Sounded like sitting inside a drum too.
    Another example of internet myth.
    In my case. YMMV.
    Wayne

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuneElliot View Post
    Three words...sag when wet
    That was one of my primary reasons for switching away from my Notch to my Duplex. I hated having to tension it 2-3 times after setting it up.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by soumodeler View Post
    That was one of my primary reasons for switching away from my Notch to my Duplex. I hated having to tension it 2-3 times after setting it up.
    I have loved the design of the SS2 for years....so glad it is now available in DCF (although technically narrower than the SS2 in silnylon). A double-wall DCF tent...gives me goosebumps

  7. #7
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    I obviously got the Miracle SS1 by mistake.
    Wayne

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    I obviously got the Miracle SS1 by mistake.
    Wayne
    Lol, the luck of Venchka.

    Do you use any type of self tensioners like shock chord?


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    Quote Originally Posted by DuneElliot View Post
    I ordered one as soon as the ordering page opened on Monday. I've been waiting on a 2p SS to be made in DCF for years now. I hope its everything I think it is and meets or exceeds my expectations especially as I already sold my Duplex. Now just to play the impatient waiting game

    Will post thoughts as soon as it arrives and I can set it up.
    I’m a Hammock guy, but I got an alert on the new SS and if I were to go back to ground dwelling I think it would be on my short list.


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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by TX Aggie View Post
    I’m a Hammock guy, but I got an alert on the new SS and if I were to go back to ground dwelling I think it would be on my short list.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Loved my hammock but had to make some sacrifices when deciding what to move to the UK. I kept my Hammock Gear Palace Tarp in DCF...not sure why, but it's huge and awesome for non-buggy areas. I may still sell it but I think it will be good for summer festivals as it is so huge

  11. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TX Aggie View Post
    Lol, the luck of Venchka.

    Do you use any type of self tensioners like shock chord?
    I was wondering the same thing... because I've always used tensioners.

    Back when I started camping in the 90's I came across a camping instructional book from the 70's. The author made the point that when you cinch your guy lines too tight and a strong wind comes a blowing... something in the system is likely to loosen up (cordage stretches, the tent material stretches, or your anchors come loose). Once there's that looseness in the system, you're left with either having to cinch the guy lines again or live with a flapping tent.

    The solution was to include shock cord in the system and size its strength such that when the wind blows, the shock cord can give a little, but once the wind has dissipated, the guy line returns to a state of tension.

  12. #12
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Colin Fletcher detailed rubber band tensioning in The Complete Walker. Which I can’t find. Grrrrr.
    My SS 1 came with shock cord loops for the stakes and I get the poles nice and tight. So far so good.
    Wayne

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    Colin Fletcher detailed rubber band tensioning in The Complete Walker. Which I can’t find. Grrrrr.
    My SS 1 came with shock cord loops for the stakes and I get the poles nice and tight. So far so good.
    Wayne
    I did the same for my SS2 Wayne, tensioned/ tight poles, elastic loops for corners
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    I was wondering the same thing... because I've always used tensioners.

    Back when I started camping in the 90's I came across a camping instructional book from the 70's. The author made the point that when you cinch your guy lines too tight and a strong wind comes a blowing... something in the system is likely to loosen up (cordage stretches, the tent material stretches, or your anchors come loose). Once there's that looseness in the system, you're left with either having to cinch the guy lines again or live with a flapping tent.

    The solution was to include shock cord in the system and size its strength such that when the wind blows, the shock cord can give a little, but once the wind has dissipated, the guy line returns to a state of tension.
    Correct:
    In more modern times it also solves two issues with UL gear.
    Pitching a tarp razor sharp with 3:1 mechanical advantage hitches is hard on gear. It requires extra reinforcements to prevent tears... and in the case of that gust of wind it introduces a little give in the system.

    Cuben/Dyneema fabric contains a solid sheet of plastic- so you don't have to worry about waterproof.
    Traditional woven fabrics however are coated with either silicone or PU (or both). The metric used to rate the coating is HH (hydrostatic head) which is a measure of pressure basically.

    Two problems with drum tight pitching are:
    Fabric cycling; since the fabric is woven with a coating- every time you pitch it and crank it you are pulling the weave of the fabric and stretching the coating. Misting tends to occur in nylons when you have cycled this coating enough that you put small tears into it... or since the coating is adhearing to the fibers of the cloth you are basically stretching the fabric into a bug netting (on a microscopic level) rather than a smooth sheet of material.

    HH exceeded; Hydrostatic head is a unit of pressure. The reason a drum makes a nice pop sound is because the skin is stretched over the head of the drum so tightly the instrument makes it's pop sound. Hence the term 'Drum tight'. However when your tarp or tent is that tight- it requires and even stronger coating to resist the force of falling water. If your tarp has even a little give to it... it can 'roll with the punches' and instead of rain drops smacking your tarp with ear popping levels of pressure... the rain softly patters on the fabric. Most of the water pressure of the falling water can be dissipated by the give of the fabric rather than relying on a massive HH rating.

    By pitching loose with some shock cords and give in your system-
    You can use UL nylons with lower HH head. The coating itself has weight. The thinner the coating, the lower the HH.
    You can also reduce reinforcement at tie out points and even in the structure itself. Since you're not designing for immobility during a wind gust- you don't have to reinforce for 50-100lb shock loads.

    Ultimately this leads to a lighter system if you're willing to work with the material and the weather to make it happen.
    By being the willow rather than the oak... you bend without breaking.

    Even in CF/DCF fabrics...
    However as part of the marketing is the aforementioned 'no sag' that DuneElliot is shopping for... designers need to heavily reinforce the products to ensure the customer doesn't cause the gear to fail.

    It is what it is...
    If I were out west I might favor the oak as shedding sustained wind is often the bigger challenge. Being able to crank on a reinforced DCF shelter to drum tight is unlikely to tear the plastic sheet and it's pretty solid.

    In the Midwest and the East... the willow allows me to build competitive tarp and shelter systems with less.
    Using .93 oz sil-membrane with zero reinforcement isn't ever going to match a .51 CF shelters finished weight ... but it stacks up fairly well with a reinforced .7 CF for 1/3 the cost as heavy rains is the bigger challenge.
    In a hammock shelter system... where the tarp can and should move with you... I can do a stakeless system that rolls with the weather and only attaches at the Ridgeline with 6" shock cord.
    Last edited by Just Bill; 08-30-2018 at 11:04.

  15. #15
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Thanks Bill!
    Looks like I should allow a bit of slack in my SS1. While retaining the shock cord limiters and adding shock absorbers to the ridge line guy lines.
    Rock and Roll as it were. “Slack don’t confront me!”
    By the way, I may not have mentioned that I own a REAL double wall SS1. The first night I used the tent I set up in an open grassy recently watered field after a clear still night in Capulin, NM. I’m guessing that there was at least a quart of water mostly on the under side of the fly and a few trickles on the overhead of the inner tent. The Alpinlite was bone dry.
    I wonder how many generations of tent sleepers have never known the benefits of a double wall tent?
    Y’all have fun!
    Wayne

  16. #16

    Default

    Can we get my thread back on track. This thread is NOT about silnylon and its issues or DCF vs silnylon or even double wall vs single wall vs hybrids

    This thread is about ONE thing...the new TT Stratospire Li; a DCF, double-wall/modular tent

    Now, mine should be shipping out today so I won't get it until next week so won't be able to post my thoughts until then but I am excited to get it.

  17. #17
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    It's on track. We're all sitting around shooting the shart while we wait for your new tent to show up.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Correct:
    In more modern times it also solves two issues with UL gear.
    Pitching a tarp razor sharp with 3:1 mechanical advantage hitches is hard on gear. It requires extra reinforcements to prevent tears... and in the case of that gust of wind it introduces a little give in the system.

    Cuben/Dyneema fabric contains a solid sheet of plastic- so you don't have to worry about waterproof.
    Traditional woven fabrics however are coated with either silicone or PU (or both). The metric used to rate the coating is HH (hydrostatic head) which is a measure of pressure basically.

    Two problems with drum tight pitching are:
    Fabric cycling; since the fabric is woven with a coating- every time you pitch it and crank it you are pulling the weave of the fabric and stretching the coating. Misting tends to occur in nylons when you have cycled this coating enough that you put small tears into it... or since the coating is adhearing to the fibers of the cloth you are basically stretching the fabric into a bug netting (on a microscopic level) rather than a smooth sheet of material.

    HH exceeded; Hydrostatic head is a unit of pressure. The reason a drum makes a nice pop sound is because the skin is stretched over the head of the drum so tightly the instrument makes it's pop sound. Hence the term 'Drum tight'. However when your tarp or tent is that tight- it requires and even stronger coating to resist the force of falling water. If your tarp has even a little give to it... it can 'roll with the punches' and instead of rain drops smacking your tarp with ear popping levels of pressure... the rain softly patters on the fabric. Most of the water pressure of the falling water can be dissipated by the give of the fabric rather than relying on a massive HH rating.

    By pitching loose with some shock cords and give in your system-
    You can use UL nylons with lower HH head. The coating itself has weight. The thinner the coating, the lower the HH.
    You can also reduce reinforcement at tie out points and even in the structure itself. Since you're not designing for immobility during a wind gust- you don't have to reinforce for 50-100lb shock loads.

    Ultimately this leads to a lighter system if you're willing to work with the material and the weather to make it happen.
    By being the willow rather than the oak... you bend without breaking.

    Even in CF/DCF fabrics...
    However as part of the marketing is the aforementioned 'no sag' that DuneElliot is shopping for... designers need to heavily reinforce the products to ensure the customer doesn't cause the gear to fail.

    It is what it is...
    If I were out west I might favor the oak as shedding sustained wind is often the bigger challenge. Being able to crank on a reinforced DCF shelter to drum tight is unlikely to tear the plastic sheet and it's pretty solid.

    In the Midwest and the East... the willow allows me to build competitive tarp and shelter systems with less.
    Using .93 oz sil-membrane with zero reinforcement isn't ever going to match a .51 CF shelters finished weight ... but it stacks up fairly well with a reinforced .7 CF for 1/3 the cost as heavy rains is the bigger challenge.
    In a hammock shelter system... where the tarp can and should move with you... I can do a stakeless system that rolls with the weather and only attaches at the Ridgeline with 6" shock cord.
    I haven't spent a whole lot of time Googling yet but I can't seem to find a YouTube vid or something else to show me what you guys are talking about re shock cord set ups on the tent guylines. Can you point me to something that will help the slower ones like me picture what's going on? Thx

  19. #19
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    http://blog.gossamergear.com/diy-sel...ng-guy-lines-2

    https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...arp-Tensioners

    https://theultimatehang.com/2012/04/...ne-tensioners/


    Most of these are more complicated than I use.
    My standard method is simply to take a loop of shock cord and to put it on each tie out or at the stake itself.
    When I stake out- I stretch to medium tension... gives it a bit of room to move in either direction.

    Someplace there is a splicing method/video out there showing how to build them (Dutch?).

    The hammock folks have some pretty solid tips and tricks on tarp work that are worth a little time for any ground dweller. In some ways they have to be more creative given the hammock moves as you load it and the tarps are pitched higher/bigger/more exposed.

    My typical ground tarp just has 6" loops on each corner and gets staked directly down with those.
    The only guy lines I use are at the ridgeline or for a pole.
    Hammock rigs have much more to deal with.

  20. #20
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    What Bill said. Keep it Simple.
    Bill's link #3 theultimatehang is the Colin Fletcher rubber band solution from the 1960s. Old school but it works and the rubber bands are readily available.
    Wayne
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