Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 90
  1. #1

    Default Providing Information from Guthooks to those Who Havent Paid

    I and others frequently provide information from guthooks to people online who obviously do not have guthooks otherwise they wouldn't be creating threads asking for water reports. Is this ethical to do? Every time I do I think "why don't you buy the app that contains the information your asking for?". But then I feel bad for them and know I would like the information if i didnt have it, and I post info I find on the hook. Thoughts? I think I will probably from now on just suggest for them to get the app.
    Trail Miles: 3,715.9
    AT Trips: 67
    AT Map 1 Completion: 1818.9 Springer, GA - Franconia Notch, NH
    AT Map 2 Completion: 263.8 Gaps From GA - PA

  2. #2
    Registered User colorado_rob's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-20-2012
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Age
    63
    Posts
    4,127
    Images
    3

    Default

    I find the practice of sharing limited, piece-meal amounts of information from various paid-for sources acceptable, either by word of mouth or by posting on social media.

    Directly distributing software, music, etc, that you have paid for is not OK though. For example, for our recent AT LASH my wife went ahead and just bought the complete trail Guthook map set. I probably could have managed to load those on my phone as well, but this would not be either legal or ethical. Same with photocopying book pages and giving those out.

    Just my own ethic, everyone's is a little, sometimes a lot, different.

  3. #3

    Default

    If you bought a map would you not share directions?
    ...the maddest of all is to see life as it is, and not as it should be. Cervantes

  4. #4

  5. #5
    Registered User colorado_rob's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-20-2012
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Age
    63
    Posts
    4,127
    Images
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher & Snacktime View Post
    If you bought a map would you not share directions?
    If I understand correctly, Gambit is referring to posting paid-for info on social media. In the case of a physical map, for example, if you bought a map, would it be OK to scan the map then post it online? I would say no.

  6. #6
    Wanna-be hiker trash
    Join Date
    03-05-2010
    Location
    Connecticut
    Age
    38
    Posts
    6,865
    Images
    78

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit McCrae View Post
    I and others frequently provide information from guthooks to people online who obviously do not have guthooks otherwise they wouldn't be creating threads asking for water reports. Is this ethical to do? Every time I do I think "why don't you buy the app that contains the information your asking for?". But then I feel bad for them and know I would like the information if i didnt have it, and I post info I find on the hook. Thoughts? I think I will probably from now on just suggest for them to get the app.
    My gut reaction (and nothing more) is that if the person is asking detailed guide data that guthooks/atlas guides has collected or compiled as part of the official app the yeah, itís unethical to freely share that. However if youíre referring to simply sharing crowdsourced comments from within the app, such as ďas of Oct 1st people are reporting that water source X is dryĒ then to me thatís akin to sharing a comment that was posed in a Facebook hiking group or here on WB and I donít see an ethical issue.
    Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm the elf View Post
    My gut reaction (and nothing more) is that if the person is asking detailed guide data that guthooks/atlas guides has collected or compiled as part of the official app the yeah, it’s unethical to freely share that. However if you’re referring to simply sharing crowdsourced comments from within the app, such as “as of Oct 1st people are reporting that water source X is dry” then to me that’s akin to sharing a comment that was posed in a Facebook hiking group or here on WB and I don’t see an ethical issue.
    This is essentially what I mean
    ...the maddest of all is to see life as it is, and not as it should be. Cervantes

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    11-21-2013
    Location
    Springfield, PA
    Age
    58
    Posts
    102

    Default

    On my section hikes I've occasionally had Guthooks users tell me about water sources or available campsites which aren't listed on the Awol guide I use. For a limited purpose like that I agree there is not an ethical issue.

  9. #9

    Default

    If you're talking about sharing comments by other users, that's just word of mouth. If someone on the street asks me for the time and I look at my watch and then share that information, is it unethical because they didn't pay anything to the manufacturer of the watch? The information contained in apps like Guthooks isn't proprietary, it's well known and heavily documented in countless other sources, almost all of which pre date Guthooks in particular and the internet in general. Add into that database the user comments which amount to hearsay. What the user is paying for is the convenience of having that information at arms reach. If someone asks you for that information and you don't want to share it you can tell them to "buy the app", but I don't think sharing the information is unethical. If you are currently on trail and someone asks you where they can find water, and you know where the water is, it could be argued that not telling them is unethical. If you're talking about random posts you encounter while browsing the web it seems like the easiest solution would be not to respond at all if you feel it's unethical.
    "I love the unimproved works of God" Horace Kephart 1862-1931

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    04-05-2018
    Location
    Aiken, SC
    Age
    64
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedCF View Post
    If you're talking about sharing comments by other users, that's just word of mouth. If someone on the street asks me for the time and I look at my watch and then share that information, is it unethical because they didn't pay anything to the manufacturer of the watch? The information contained in apps like Guthooks isn't proprietary, it's well known and heavily documented in countless other sources, almost all of which pre date Guthooks in particular and the internet in general. Add into that database the user comments which amount to hearsay. What the user is paying for is the convenience of having that information at arms reach. If someone asks you for that information and you don't want to share it you can tell them to "buy the app", but I don't think sharing the information is unethical. If you are currently on trail and someone asks you where they can find water, and you know where the water is, it could be argued that not telling them is unethical. If you're talking about random posts you encounter while browsing the web it seems like the easiest solution would be not to respond at all if you feel it's unethical.
    Absolutely nailed it.

  11. #11
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-02-2007
    Location
    DFW, TX / Northern NH
    Age
    63
    Posts
    7,712
    Images
    27

    Default

    Here's the terms of use: https://atlasguides.com/terms-of-use/

    Guthook is basically just a compiler of information available in the public domain, along with publicly shared uploaded content (like current water sources) from other users - content that nobody really owns. The info itself is free to use and distribute, no different than letting another hiker look at your AWOL Guide or map. The app and tech, however, is a license agreement, and distributing the app itself, or using the app for commercial purpose would violate the license agreement.

  12. #12
    Registered User ldsailor's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-25-2016
    Location
    St. Petersburg, FL
    Age
    70
    Posts
    540

    Default

    I always found the Guthook comments of little use most times. Comments about water can be dated and I question whether the person commenting really has good information. Just on this forum a few days ago I read a post saying there was no water at a certain location. Then someone replied to that saying he went further down the water source and acquired water.

    I have hiked at this time of the year in the past and always carried more water than usual just because I know a lot of sources dry up. While getting information from any source is probably a good idea, I don't rely on it.

    Specifically to the question, if you met someone on the trail and they told you where to get water is that unethical? Of course not. The Guthook app is essentially doing the same thing and why not share the information if you can.
    Trail Name - Slapshot
    "One step at a time."
    Blog - www.tonysadventure.com

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    04-04-2017
    Location
    Central CT
    Age
    33
    Posts
    182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_rob View Post
    I find the practice of sharing limited, piece-meal amounts of information from various paid-for sources acceptable, either by word of mouth or by posting on social media.

    Directly distributing software, music, etc, that you have paid for is not OK though. For example, for our recent AT LASH my wife went ahead and just bought the complete trail Guthook map set. I probably could have managed to load those on my phone as well, but this would not be either legal or ethical. Same with photocopying book pages and giving those out.

    Just my own ethic, everyone's is a little, sometimes a lot, different.

    what if the book is out of print and not available anymore except a few random people asking for way over face value? …. would you consider it ok to photocopy pages/maps to help people out or would you say that's wrong to? … not trying to be a wise guy just wondering your thoughts.
    NoDoz
    nobo 2018 March 10th - October 19th

    I'm just one too many mornings and 1,000 miles behind

  14. #14
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-02-2007
    Location
    DFW, TX / Northern NH
    Age
    63
    Posts
    7,712
    Images
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyLightning View Post
    what if the book is out of print and not available anymore except a few random people asking for way over face value? Ö. would you consider it ok to photocopy pages/maps to help people out or would you say that's wrong to? Ö not trying to be a wise guy just wondering your thoughts.
    A couple of thoughts...
    When was the book first published? Is the author alive? If not, when did they die? Important to determine how copyright duration applies.
    How much of the work are you copying and for what purpose? A page or two for commentary or educational purposes is usually okay. Important to know as it pertains to "fair use".
    And just an observation, but present value of many old books would be much higher than "face value" due to inflation alone, never mind rarity.

  15. #15

    Default

    and also ================================== and a little *********************

    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  16. #16
    Registered User colorado_rob's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-20-2012
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Age
    63
    Posts
    4,127
    Images
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyLightning View Post
    what if the book is out of print and not available anymore except a few random people asking for way over face value? Ö. would you consider it ok to photocopy pages/maps to help people out or would you say that's wrong to? Ö not trying to be a wise guy just wondering your thoughts.
    tough call, but I'm not too strict on my own ethics, nor do I give anyone grief on theirs. I do have a guide book published, for example, and couldn't care less if folks copy pages. A good friend, however, nicest guy around does NOT like folks copying his guide books though (he has written a couple dozen of them).

  17. #17
    Registered User colorado_rob's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-20-2012
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Age
    63
    Posts
    4,127
    Images
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chknfngrs View Post
    and also ================================== and a little *********************
    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    predictable response.

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    03-17-2009
    Location
    Hadley Pa.
    Age
    63
    Posts
    394

    Default

    If you need something ya ask. I have needed info I did not have or have access to. I've wanted first hand knowledge of trail conditions or if the unreliable water source was good or not. I lost my knife, forgot to pack my ibuprofen or ran out or items. No big deal when I get asked for info I have. If somebody needs a bandaid I give them one or two. If I have it I share it including information. It's not unethical it's being non judgemental and kind.

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit McCrae View Post
    I and others frequently provide information from guthooks to people online who obviously do not have guthooks otherwise they wouldn't be creating threads asking for water reports. Is this ethical to do? Every time I do I think "why don't you buy the app that contains the information your asking for?". But then I feel bad for them and know I would like the information if i didnt have it, and I post info I find on the hook. Thoughts? I think I will probably from now on just suggest for them to get the app.
    I'm not sure what it would serve telling someone in the desert to "go get the app" as opposed to telling them where the nearest water site is. I wonder how one would feel learning weeks later that person died as a result of that clipped conversation. I could see this response if the same person constantly pestered another about information only available through a specific application, but to withhold it from someone in need is not in anyone's best interest.

    Sharing social media information or recorded data/observations (usually provided by others) like traffic conditions, weather forecasts, or water sites is not unethical, if it were, tens of thousands of people would be sued hourly. However, providing a copy of the software that collects data/observations would be unethical and illegal according to US Copyright law.

  20. #20

    Default

    As a company, they should be happy that people share a lot of the info. It's great free advertising.
    I think that's why I bought the app in the first place. I was on a section hike and someone had it and gave me some info I didn't have and showed me a couple features!

    As long as people don't make the majority of the content easily available for free, and the app still has clear benefits to use, then all is well IMO.

    Water reports have always been a key topic of conversation for hikers. It used to generate a response such as "I didn't stop at shelter A so I don't know, but the creek around 4-5 miles back has a trickle". But if someone asks me that now, I will consult all resources I have!

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
++ New Posts ++

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •