Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 66
  1. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    This is -not- a motor vehicle. It's a simple assist function that requires the cyclist to be pedaling.
    Assisting with a MOTOR
    "It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss

  2. #22
    Registered User colorado_rob's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-20-2012
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Age
    63
    Posts
    4,109
    Images
    3

    Default

    The newest E-bikes are NOT the same as the older assist ones, you can ride the new ones like underpowered scooters. And with the evolving battery tech going on, they will just get stronger and faster. It is scary. Funny though, we don't see these in the Denver area much yet.

  3. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    This is -not- a motor vehicle. It's a simple assist function that requires the cyclist to be pedaling.
    Sounds like a motor vehicle to me:

    Class 1: Pedal Assist
    The electric drive system on the ebike can only be activated through a pedaling action and is limited to relatively low speeds. The sensor usually measures pedal movement, pedal torque or bicycle speed (sometimes all three) and sensors are located in the bottom bracket, rear hub or rear wheel. In parts of Europe this class is limited to 15 mph (25 kph) with motor wattage <= 250 watts. In America, because of our more liberal vehicle definition, this class is limited to a motor powered speed of 20 mph (32 kph) with motor wattage of <= 750 watts.

    https://electricbikereview.com/forum...-matter.22738/
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  4. #24

    Default

    I am ok with this. I have seen e bikes coexist just fine and without any histrionics on all kinds of trails I biked in Spain, France, Germany or Czechia


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Let me go

  5. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    E-Bikes will be allowed in GSMNP then as it does allow horses.
    I have a question about the horses allowed on the AT in GSMNP.

    Does the trail flatten out a bit - where horses are allowed?
    Like not the narrow one hiker path in a divot most of the time?

  6. #26
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-28-2007
    Location
    Georgia and Hawaii
    Posts
    17,753

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBob View Post
    Sounds like a motor vehicle to me:

    Class 1: Pedal Assist
    The electric drive system on the ebike can only be activated through a pedaling action and is limited to relatively low speeds. The sensor usually measures pedal movement, pedal torque or bicycle speed (sometimes all three) and sensors are located in the bottom bracket, rear hub or rear wheel. In parts of Europe this class is limited to 15 mph (25 kph) with motor wattage <= 250 watts. In America, because of our more liberal vehicle definition, this class is limited to a motor powered speed of 20 mph (32 kph) with motor wattage of <= 750 watts.

    https://electricbikereview.com/forum...-matter.22738/
    A law was just passed in Atlanta to mandatory reduce the MPH of the pay as u go electric scooters(T bar skateboards) left all over town.

  7. #27
    GSMNP 900 Miler
    Join Date
    02-25-2007
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Age
    52
    Posts
    4,222
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    According to the order, E-Bikes are able to use any trail open to bicycles and/or horses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    E-Bikes will be allowed in GSMNP then as it does allow horses.
    Let's shut this crap down now!

    Just google the subject and you will quickly find new stories as well as links to the order indicating that the above statements are NOT true.

    In summary, the order is "E-bikes are allowed where traditional bicycles are allowed". The order continues with the statement that "E-bikes are not allowed where traditional bicycles are prohibited".

    So specific to GSMNP:
    We don't have to worry about seeing e-bikes in the GSMNP back country (except for the three trails where bicycles are already allowed).
    The biggest impact I see in GSMNP is that mornings where Cades Cove is closed to vehicle traffic, but open to bicycles and hikers... E-bikes would also be allowed in Cades Cove.

  8. #28
    Is it raining yet?
    Join Date
    07-15-2004
    Location
    Kensington, MD
    Age
    43
    Posts
    828
    Images
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
    It is a motor vehicle. Period. Most e bikes can move just fine without any pedaling whatsoever, many at speeds in excess of 20 mph.
    This statement is only true if the e-bike is going downhill. An e bike is not a moped. For the battery to power the crank must turn.
    Be Prepared

  9. #29
    Is it raining yet?
    Join Date
    07-15-2004
    Location
    Kensington, MD
    Age
    43
    Posts
    828
    Images
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
    Lol, it is completely unenforceable unlike many rules that can be enforced. Most of these e bikes have throttles and try proving that people are exerting effort pedaling. You can’t.
    An e bike by definition does not have a throttle. A throttle makes it a moped or scooter.
    Be Prepared

  10. #30
    Is it raining yet?
    Join Date
    07-15-2004
    Location
    Kensington, MD
    Age
    43
    Posts
    828
    Images
    51

    Default

    I was recently in the hills of Switzerland where well over 1/2 of bikes in town are now e bikes. Bikes, e bikes, pedestrians, motor vehicles and pets all seemed to get along in harmony.

    You may have heard something like this before, but it's the people, not the instrument that is the problem.
    Be Prepared

  11. #31
    Registered User
    Join Date
    11-20-2014
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Age
    60
    Posts
    7

    Default

    From the language in this article, it appears the parks feel they have some leeway on how the rule is implemented:

    https://www.pressherald.com/2019/09/...ter-directive/

  12. #32
    GSMNP 900 Miler
    Join Date
    02-25-2007
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Age
    52
    Posts
    4,222
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TurboWells View Post
    From the language in this article, it appears the parks feel they have some leeway on how the rule is implemented:

    https://www.pressherald.com/2019/09/...ter-directive/
    Just read the order for yourself.
    It clearly states that Superintendents have the authority place limitations on e-bike and lists what they must take into consideration and how the limitations would be disseminated.

  13. #33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCloud View Post
    An e bike by definition does not have a throttle. A throttle makes it a moped or scooter.
    This isn't actually true. Class 1 e-bikes are assist only. Class 2 allow both assist and throttle only modes.

  14. #34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    Let's shut this crap down now!

    Just google the subject and you will quickly find new stories as well as links to the order indicating that the above statements are NOT true.

    In summary, the order is "E-bikes are allowed where traditional bicycles are allowed". The order continues with the statement that "E-bikes are not allowed where traditional bicycles are prohibited".

    So specific to GSMNP:
    We don't have to worry about seeing e-bikes in the GSMNP back country (except for the three trails where bicycles are already allowed).
    The biggest impact I see in GSMNP is that mornings where Cades Cove is closed to vehicle traffic, but open to bicycles and hikers... E-bikes would also be allowed in Cades Cove.
    Well, if that's the case, they won't be allowed where bikes are allowed to go? Sounds kind of silly, where else would they ride?

    However, the larger point in all this was the complete lack of public comment opportunity before a change of policy of this nature in National Parks. If most everyone is ok with that, I guess there's not much more to say.

  15. #35
    GSMNP 900 Miler
    Join Date
    02-25-2007
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Age
    52
    Posts
    4,222
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Well, if that's the case, they won't be allowed where bikes are allowed to go? Sounds kind of silly, where else would they ride?
    Your opening post used the phrase "E-Bikes are able to use any trail open to bicycles and/or horses". This phrase, along with your opening statement, made it sound like a whole lot of back country trials that used to be open only to hikers and horse riders would now also be open to E-Bikes.

    That interpretation of this order that is simply not true, and that's the ONLY part of this discussion I'm trying to shut down.

    "Lack of public comment opportunity"? I didn't research the history of the order, so I currently have no input on that aspect of the subject. So please do continue to discuss the history of this order and anything else that might be right or wrong about it.

  16. #36
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-04-2013
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    4,022

    Default

    “his statement is only true if the e-bike is going downhill. An e bike is not a moped. For the battery to power the crank must turn.”

    not true. Many have throttles. Check out Rad Power as just one example.

  17. #37
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-08-2012
    Location
    Taghkanic, New York, United States
    Posts
    2,961
    Journal Entries
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Kobzol View Post
    I am ok with this. I have seen e bikes coexist just fine and without any histrionics on all kinds of trails I biked in Spain, France, Germany or Czechia
    Says a biker. From a hiker's perspective I suspect the answer would be different. I've noticed that bike use does alter the trail in a obvious way to me.

  18. #38
    GSMNP 900 Miler
    Join Date
    02-25-2007
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Age
    52
    Posts
    4,222
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    Says a biker. From a hiker's perspective I suspect the answer would be different. I've noticed that bike use does alter the trail in a obvious way to me.
    StarStarchild,
    A biker's perspective is VERY appropriate for this discussion.

    Notice that T.S.Kobzol is saying that "e-bikes coexist ... on all kinds of trails I biked..."

    So let me point out again... this order is NOT expanding e-bikes to hiker trails.
    The shortest summary of the order would be "e-bikes can go anywhere bikes are allowed".
    So to point out AGAIN... the order is not allowing e-bikes on what have classically been hiker trials

  19. #39
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-04-2013
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    4,022

    Default

    The problem isn’t that they are allowing e-bikes on hiking only trails but that they are allowing a motor vehicle in areas where they previously only allowed human powered mechanized vehicles. My most relevant experiences with mountain bikers was on the Colorado Trail. I didn’t have too many run ins but there were a few spots with many of them. With a motor, people are going to travel faster, take more risks to themselves, and put more hikers in peril. E bikes are fundamentally different than human powered bikes, especially those that have a throttle, which is most that I’ve researched. I’ve looked into e bikes myself for city use although I haven’t bought one yet. There’s an important place for such vehicles but I don’t think they belong on trails.

  20. #40
    GSMNP 900 Miler
    Join Date
    02-25-2007
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Age
    52
    Posts
    4,222
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
    “his statement is only true if the e-bike is going downhill. An e bike is not a moped. For the battery to power the crank must turn.”

    not true. Many have throttles. Check out Rad Power as just one example.
    The order places E-Bikes into 4 classes:
    Class 1. Motor that provides assistance only when pedaling and ceases to assist above a speed of 20mph
    Class 2. Motor that can be used to exclusively propel the bicycle and ceases to assist above a speed of 20mph
    Class 3. Motor that provides assistance only when pedaling and ceases to assist above a speed of 28mph
    The Rest: Device with electric motors that don't fall within Class 1, 2, or 3.

    Effectively, the order defines an E-bike as a device that fits into Class 1, 2 or 3. These E-bikes are allowed where traditional bicycles are allowed.
    Any "E-bike" that falls outside of Class 1, 2, or 3 is to be managed as a motor vehicle and only allowed on park roads and areas designated for off-road vehicle use.

    This is a paraphrase of the order. Again, if you want to see the details for yourself, they are here.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
++ New Posts ++

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •