Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 40 of 40
  1. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-30-2006
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Age
    58
    Posts
    531
    Images
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    Mace is stronger than bear spray and that is what I carry.
    On bears? You are seriously misinformed...

  2. #22
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-30-2006
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Age
    58
    Posts
    531
    Images
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosh View Post
    Unlike the the east coast, Montana, Wyoming & Idaho have “real” wilderness areas. Not just my phone won’t work wilderness, but we’re a 100 miles from a road wilderness
    More misinformation... you've obviously never spent any time in the Adirondacks or Maine.

  3. #23
    Registered User
    Join Date
    10-26-2015
    Location
    Denver Colorado
    Posts
    766

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BradMT View Post
    On bears? You are seriously misinformed...
    Hum,

    https://www.selfdefenseninja.com/bea...ts-difference/

  4. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-30-2006
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Age
    58
    Posts
    531
    Images
    6

    Default

    Real “Mace” as developed 50+ years ago does not have Oleoresin Capsicum which is the active, most important ingredient in all bear spray. Today, “Mace” is a company that makes all sorts of defense sprays, some with Oleoresin Capsicum, some without. So the idea that “Mace” is stronger than bear spray is ridiculous. The Mace Co. makes “bear spray” with Oleoresin Capsicum, but it also makes sprays without... The Mace brand of bear spray is no different than any other top tier bear spray.
    Last edited by BradMT; 08-29-2019 at 20:45.

  5. #25
    Registered User
    Join Date
    10-26-2015
    Location
    Denver Colorado
    Posts
    766

    Default

    And, the “mace” comprised of OC for personal defensive is stronger than the “mace” aka bear spray that is regulated by the EPA.

    KLEENEX= tissue paper= Kleenex

    Xerox = copiers = Xerox

    Yet again, we are privileged to have yet another WB poster who has tried to demonstrate their mental superiority to the lesser masses.

    Remember, keep shooting the puck, the net is out there somewhere.

  6. #26
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-30-2006
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Age
    58
    Posts
    531
    Images
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosh View Post
    And, the “mace” comprised of OC for personal defensive is stronger than the “mace” aka bear spray that is regulated by the EPA.

    KLEENEX= tissue paper= Kleenex

    Xerox = copiers = Xerox

    Yet again, we are privileged to have yet another WB poster who has tried to demonstrate their mental superiority to the lesser masses.

    Remember, keep shooting the puck, the net is out there somewhere.

    So which “Mace” was the gentleman above referring to? ... it obviously wasn’t the Mace brand of bear spray.

    Good grief, you seem to know as much about bear spray as you do East Coast Wilderness.

  7. #27
    Registered User
    Join Date
    06-04-2018
    Location
    Husk NC
    Age
    64
    Posts
    292

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BradMT View Post
    So which “Mace” was the gentleman above referring to? ... it obviously wasn’t the Mace brand of bear spray.

    Good grief, you seem to know as much about bear spray as you do East Coast Wilderness.
    Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was using the term Mace to cover all Pepper Spray....Kleenex = kleenex. My point is that bear spray is far less powerful than most of the spray sold for personal defense..... "A typical pepper spray used for self defense will have an oleoresin capsicum (OC) concentration of about 10% or higher. A typical bear spray has a oleoresin concentration of about 1-2%" . Read the label before purchasing. I also get the personal defense pepper spray that broadcasts.
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..........
    Travel not for the destination, but for the joy of the journey.

  8. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-30-2006
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Age
    58
    Posts
    531
    Images
    6

    Default

    From Wikepedia... note the bit about OC concentrations... I bolded and italicized those bits.

    The active ingredient in pepper spray is capsaicin, which is a chemical derived from the fruit of plants in the genus Capsicum, including chilis. Extraction of oleoresin capsicum (OC) from peppers requires capsicum to be finely ground, from which capsaicin is then extracted using an organic solvent such as ethanol. The solvent is then evaporated, and the remaining waxlike resin is the oleoresin capsaicin.

    An emulsifier such as propylene glycol is used to suspend OC in water, and the suspension is then pressurized to make an aerosol pepper spray. High performance liquid chromatography (HPLC) is used to measure the amount of capsaicin and major capsaicinoids in pepper sprays.

    Determining the strength of pepper sprays made by different manufacturers can be confusing and difficult. Statements a company makes about their product strength are not regulated. A method using the capsaicin and related capsaicinoids (CRC) content of the product is unreliable as well, because there are six different types of capsaicinoids, causing different levels of irritation. Manufacturers do not state which particular type of capsaicinoids are used. Personal pepper sprays can range from a low of 0.18% to a high of 3%. Most law enforcement pepper sprays use between 1.3% and 2%. The federal government of the United States has determined that bear attack deterrent sprays must contain at least 1.0% and not more than 2% CRC. CRC does not measure the amount of OC within the formulation. Instead, CRC is the pain-producing component of the OC that produces the burning sensation.

    The federal government of the United States makes no mention of Scoville heat units (SHU) or OC in their requirements, only CRC (only for bear attack deterrent sprays). But, there are countries (Italy, Portugal and Spain - see below, under "Legality") and a few states within the US that do mention OC limitations. Some manufacturers may show a very high percentage of OC and, although OC is the active ingredient within the formulation, it does not indicate pepper spray strength. High OC percentage also indicates that a spray has more oil content; which, can possibly use lower grade pepper oils (but, more of it), or lower grade capsaicinoids (within the major CRCs) and also has less ability to soak and penetrate skin than a formula with less, but higher-quality, pepper oil, because oil has hydrophobic properties.

    The OC percentage measures only the amount of chili oil extract contained in the defense spray, not the strength, pungency or effectiveness of the product. Other companies may show a high SHU. The SHU is a measurement of the base resin compound and not what comes out in the aerosol. The rated irritant effect of the resin may be diluted depending on how much of it is put in the can.
    Last edited by BradMT; 08-30-2019 at 10:20.

  9. #29

    Default

    So,should I ditch my can of Counter Assault Bear Spray for some other brand, and if so,which one?
    My gutt is telling me to stay with what I've got but if there is something out there stronger with the same or better droplet size,I would like to know.

    Next question is,if more powerful "cloud type" spray is available,why has it not already replaced conventional bear spray?

  10. #30
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-30-2006
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Age
    58
    Posts
    531
    Images
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    So,should I ditch my can of Counter Assault Bear Spray for some other brand, and if so,which one?
    My gutt is telling me to stay with what I've got but if there is something out there stronger with the same or better droplet size,I would like to know.

    Next question is,if more powerful "cloud type" spray is available,why has it not already replaced conventional bear spray?
    Counter Assault, UDAP, it's all good. I have both... packing UDAP now for a 3 day trip in grizzly country.

    Nobody, and I mean nobody, recommends using personal defense spray for bears... it's not made for bears.

    More reading about NOT using personal defense spray:

    http://www.bearsmart.com/play/bear-d...-pepper-spray/
    Last edited by BradMT; 08-30-2019 at 10:24.

  11. #31
    Registered User
    Join Date
    10-26-2015
    Location
    Denver Colorado
    Posts
    766

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BradMT View Post
    So which “Mace” was the gentleman above referring to? ... it obviously wasn’t the Mace brand of bear spray.
    .
    Sounds like a good question to ask before you start implying people are mis-informed, you know eight grade clarifying question. Bottom line, personal defense pepper spray has a higher concentration of OC than bear spray. Why, because bear spray is regulated by the EPA.

    As far wilderness goes, yes I was wrong and you are right, feel better.

    There are many more miles of roads in the states I mentioned than upper New England.

    Oh look, they moved the net again.

  12. #32

    Default

    FWIW,I saw on You Tube that Frontiersman Bear Spray is the strongest bear spray on the market and is 50% stronger than police pepper spray.Available on Amazon.Also,it has a 35 foot range.

    The observation I have made from videos and research thus far is that in Grizzly Country whatever you use really needs to be in your hand to be effective as the bear can close on you at more than 50 feet per second.That means the bear will cover 100 to 150 feet before some old person(like me) could get it drawn and ready,ditto a holstered fire arm.

  13. #33
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-30-2006
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Age
    58
    Posts
    531
    Images
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosh View Post
    Sounds like a good question to ask before you start implying people are mis-informed, you know eight grade clarifying question. Bottom line, personal defense pepper spray has a higher concentration of OC than bear spray. Why, because bear spray is regulated by the EPA.
    Once again, you're uniformed... speaking of eighth grade reading comprehension, read the articles.

    Concentration of OC is not the point... it's the quality and delivery that counts, and personal protection sprays do NOT meet the qualifications for bear spray.

  14. #34

    Default

    Wow! Who would have thought bear safety could be such a contentious topic! I for one have actually learned from this thread and based on the reading I've done the only certainty I can see is that when humans are faced with these apex predators (Grizzly) the outcomes are far from certain because the variables are infinite. The only two options for defense seem to be sprays or guns. I don't have any experience dealing with bear encounters but I would like to hike in Grizzly country some day. Growing up in the American South in a hunting family my first reaction when something threatens me, my family, my pets or my livestock is to kill it. When I'm on my property I chop up every Copperhead, Timber Rattler and Cotton Mouth I encounter. I'm not arguing the right or wrong of it, just admitting that's how I deal with snakes at home. I also am aware that I cant do that on some public lands, National and State parks. It was long before my time but I am told we used to have Black Bear and Cougar in my home state and the reason we no longer do is because a lot of people who came before me had the attitude "if it threatens, kill it". My neighbors routinely trap and butcher feral hogs because they destroy farmland. If beavers flood farm land they get trapped into submission. "Harvesting" coyotes is practically a sport in cattle country. This is how things have been done for a long time in rural and urban areas when wildlife "encroaches" on us.
    The draw of the wilderness areas is the fact that it is wilderness. The untamed wildness is what makes us want to go to those places and when we do we are encroaching on the last strongholds of the wild things. I will let others debate the morality of it but I will admit that in the moment, if I'm faced with saving a human life, even my own, at the cost of an animals life, I would chose to destroy the animal. I don't want to be in that situation so before I venture into Brown Bear territory I will educate myself with the most up to date, factual information about the best practices to avoid bear confrontation.
    As for everyone who has strongly held beliefs about the potency of the now ubiquitous 9mm parabellum and its virtues or lack thereof compared to .44 magnum or .500SW all I can say is....you would fit right in at my local watering hole
    "I love the unimproved works of God" Horace Kephart 1862-1931

  15. #35

    Default

    Clearly an unbearable debate....

  16. #36
    Registered User
    Join Date
    11-08-2015
    Location
    the south
    Age
    68
    Posts
    174

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Clearly an unbearable debate....
    just bear with us.
    humor is the gadfly on the corpse of tragedy

  17. #37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    FWIW,I saw on You Tube that Frontiersman Bear Spray is the strongest bear spray on the market and is 50% stronger than police pepper spray.Available on Amazon.Also,it has a 35 foot range.

    The observation I have made from videos and research thus far is that in Grizzly Country whatever you use really needs to be in your hand to be effective as the bear can close on you at more than 50 feet per second.That means the bear will cover 100 to 150 feet before some old person(like me) could get it drawn and ready,ditto a holstered fire arm.
    And be able to get off a kill shot because if you are off, bye-bye. I carry Frontier spray and have good confidence hat it will work in most situations. Sure, there's alway a chance you will run into a bear that is going to be immune to the spray. Nothing in life is guaranteed, except taxes and death.

  18. #38

    Default

    This gentleman was attacked TWICE by the same bear and gives a first hand account of the experience.Note his summary comment,"Bear Spray is better than nothing".Had he shot her and wounded her with the pistol I can't help but wonder if she would have broken off the attack at that point ;likely not as a wounded animal is always bad news.The good news is that she made her point and broke it off.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOQAhKrOOww

  19. #39

    Default

    Here's a black bear attack that ended with one survivor and one fatality.Gruesome but worth watching.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h70Pxh-pCWw

    I am inclined to believe bear spray could have stopped this one.

  20. #40
    Registered User
    Join Date
    12-21-2008
    Location
    Manassas, VA
    Posts
    152
    Images
    3

    Default

    Could someone make a hiking pole that can shoot bear spray?

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
++ New Posts ++

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •