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  1. #41
    Registered User swjohnsey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    How do you get that? An 1/8 of a cup is over 1000 calories.
    All oil have about the same calorie content 9 cal/gram. Pound is 454 grams so 4,086 calories musta been drunk.

  2. #42
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    Dogwood poked at this but someone has to flat out ask. Why aren’t you going to Stehekin???? If someone told me that I had a choice of either making it to the Canadian border and going into Stehekin I’m not sure which I would pick. Even if you dietary restrictions keeps you from enjoying those delicious cinnamon rolls there are other options in town. Problem on the ten day carry solved and another great experience.

    Also, do not underestimate the difficulty of the section between Stevens and Stehekin. the day around Glacier Peak was the only full hiking day outside the snowy Sierra that I didn’t hit 30 miles. I have seen others get surprised on that section including a couple record attempters.
    enemy of unnecessary but innovative trail invention gadgetry

  3. #43

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    Yes we know about the difficulty. We've done the Stevens to Snoqualmie section already. That's why we are only planning 10-14 mile days, because we expect a lot of one mile/hour hiking. Not new for us. Long distance hiking since 1970, plus a career as a field geologist (USGS), and lots of international hiking including Iceland (4 trips) and Nepal (2 trips) and the whole AT (did numerous sections twice including Maine). Just giving perspective, we're not beginners although others here have more experience than we do.

    Skipping Stehekin because we only have 10 days to use, and it's only 19 miles in from Rainy Pass (not worth spending one day to save 1.5 day's food). We will see it another time, sounds great.

    I know, we're a little odd... we seek out tough stuff rather than avoid it. I try to do something that sucks every day (apologies to Goggins).

    We are making good progress coming up with a formula for 10 days food! It's doable but needs much planning, measuring, pre-packing. We did this previously for a 5 day PCT hike and we had too much food, and we just weren't that hungry.

    Thanks for the useful comments!
    Last edited by RockDoc; 07-24-2019 at 12:30.

  4. #44

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    Correct. Industrial seed oils like canola were originally designed to lubricate machinery, not as food. There's no history of them being used as food before the industrial age because they were impossible to make without high temperature, high pressure industrial processes. Toxic and inflammatory in the body. (This alone is a good reason to cook all your own food rather than eating in restaurants, which use canola by the gallon).

    https://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-canola-oil/

    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    Canola oil is the cheapest oil you can get and probably one of the deadliest and most damaging to your body. You can easily buy olive oil that doesn't overwhelm with flavor or perhaps I have just become used to it. I also use a lot of coconut oil. I love it. But refined has less of a coconut flavor if that's an issue as well. You couldn't pay me to use any "vegetable" oil.

    But, to each their own.
    Last edited by RockDoc; 07-24-2019 at 11:23.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    Canola oil is the cheapest oil you can get and probably one of the deadliest and most damaging to your body. . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by RockDoc View Post
    Correct. Industrially produced seed oils like canola were originally designed to lubricate machinery, not as food. There's no history of them being used as food before the industrial age because they were impossible to make without high temperature, high pressure industrial processes. Toxic and inflammatory in the body. . .
    Oh, come off it you health food fad fanatics. I suppose you don't eat cooked food or any form of food that has been developed with selective breeding?

    For what it's worth, there's no history of any kind for canola oil before 1979 because prior to that it was called rapeseed oil. And, rape seed oil has been used for all kinds of things, including food (similar to olive oil) back as far as the 13th century. The catch being that until rape seed cultivars were developed that were sufficiently low in erucic and glucosinolates it was not a very healthy edible. My understanding is that the name canola was introduced for marketing to avoid the stigma associated with rapeseed of being only marginally edible prior to the development of the modern cultivars.

    As for processing and health, it appears that extraction techniques for canola and virgin olive oil are similar using presses and heat whereas "extra virgin" olive oil is just pressed. If you look at the actual content of the oils, canola has more omega 3 & 6 fatty acids (good things) than olive oil. Whereas extra virgin (not the less expensive virgin) olive oil has more antioxidants (other good things). Both are primarily unsaturated fats ("healthy fats"). Finally, I'm not sure why someone is all worked up about heat processed oils when they are used in cooking to begin with!?
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  6. #46

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    OK, what else do you have to say that's irrelevant? Sorry, traditional olive oil has been made for thousands of years, they are not the same.

    Do you work for Monsanto?

    Avoiding toxic foods is fanatical. Right. This is an intelligence test bozo.
    Last edited by RockDoc; 07-24-2019 at 12:32.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malto View Post
    Dogwood poked at this but someone has to flat out ask. Why arenít you going to Stehekin???? If someone told me that I had a choice of either making it to the Canadian border and going into Stehekin Iím not sure which I would pick. Even if you dietary restrictions keeps you from enjoying those delicious cinnamon rolls there are other options in town. Problem on the ten day carry solved and another great experience.

    Also, do not underestimate the difficulty of the section between Stevens and Stehekin. the day around Glacier Peak was the only full hiking day outside the snowy Sierra that I didnít hit 30 miles. I have seen others get surprised on that section including a couple record attempters.
    Quote Originally Posted by RockDoc View Post
    Yes we know about the difficulty. We've done the Stevens to Snoqualmie section already. That's why we are only planning 10-14 mile days, because we expect a lot of one mile/hour hiking. Not new for us. Long distance hiking since 1970, plus a career as a field geologist (USGS), and lots of international hiking including Iceland (4 trips) and Nepal (2 trips) and the whole AT (did numerous sections twice including Maine). Just giving perspective, we're not beginners although others here have more experience than we do.

    Skipping Stehekin because we only have 10 days to use, and it's only 19 miles in from Rainy Pass (not worth spending one day to save 1.5 day's food). We will see it another time, sounds great.

    I know, we're a little odd... we seek out tough stuff rather than avoid it. I try to do something that sucks every day (apologies to Goggins).

    We are making good progress coming up with a formula for 10 days food! It's doable but needs much planning, measuring, pre-packing. We did this previously for a 5 day PCT hike and we had too much food, and we just weren't that hungry.

    Thanks for the useful comments!
    Sooo, unless your party has good reason to start/end at Rainy Pass start/end in Stehekin. An exciting solitudinous place that adds diversity to a northern WA PCT section hike is beginning or ending at Stehekin via a Lake Chelan Ferry Ride to the town of Chelan. In Chelan a short bus ride goes into Wanatchee GHound or area connecting buses to various Int AP's. The buses go through fields of prime national pear, cherry, apple and other produce areas with a diversity of crafts made food and other local products. If you dont it stands a good chance you may never visit Stehekin if doing the PCT in section hikes with Rainy Pass as the preferred end/start pt. FWIW, I've had it related umpteen times by PCTers Stehekin being one of the most memorable visits of their trips.

    Consider Lake Chelan is a greatly scenic DEEP U.S. lake that is a Nat Rec Area in itself. From a boat it always reminded me of the Waterton Lakes complex of the Rockies spanning Waterton Lakes Provincial Park and Glacier NP or a Norwegian fjord. I think it would hold some interest to a Foodie and geologist?

    FWIW, and since you've shared your dietary concerns, even I also as a picky pescatarian, was able to eat well at the Stehekin Lodge. The Lodge addressed all my dietary pickiness with a friendly smile, as well as everyone else in the 14 PCT thru hiker strong party last time I was there...so much so we all chipped in leaving a memorable respectful to others tip to the staff. The bakery is awesome, additionally so, given it's remoteness.

    To each their own but I take a similar approach to LD hiking as Sly once said succinctly, "thru-hiking/LD hiking/segment/day hiking is not just about hiking." A scenic boat ride follows along that principle.

    To reiterate that can be some strenuous hiking in the elected segment....which can increase food wt if not making miles.
    Last edited by Dogwood; 07-24-2019 at 14:22.

  8. #48

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    We have finalized and packed our food, and it comes out to 15.7 lbs total for two people for 10 days. I'll carry 10 lbs and my petite wife will carry 5 lbs, and this will get lighter as the days go by. That's 0.8 lbs/day per person. We are looking at 30,000 ft of climb so we need to keep this number low, yet the nutrition and food value is as high as possible. Mainly fat and protein. Our livers produce glucose on demand.

    We are relying heavily on homemade dehydrated food (some purchased dehydrated food, like whole eggs, cheddar cheese powder, and PB2). Purchased products are mostly splurges like chocolate and Moon Cheese. We dehydrated cooked hamburger, sausage, and bacon to put in our meals. Again, we are fat adapted Keto (3.5 years). And we've done this before, week long on the PCT (we were so satisfied that we didn't eat all the food that time, 2 years ago), and several section hikes on AT. Happy to share weights if anyone is interested. Basically breakfasts and dinners are 6 oz each, sealed in Foodsaver bags. We use a Gigapower stove just to boil water, then let the food sit in an insulated cozy for 10 minutes. I figure we'll need to carry two 8 oz canisters for the trip--we like to make coffee twice/day.

    Breakfast Egg, cheese, sausage, bacon ham
    Snack Granola bars - homemade vanilla nut (recipe in Eat Rich Live Long)
    Snack Protein bars - homemade
    Snack Beef Jerky - People's choice (no sugar)
    Snack dried fruit - organic peaches, kiwis, apricots
    Snack PB 2 powdered almond butter
    Snack Beef stick - Costco, individ wrapped
    Snack String cheese - Frigo, individ wrapped
    Spluge Macademia nuts
    Spluge Choc covered espresso beans
    Spluge Moon cheese
    Snack Chocolate bar, Lindt 90%
    Coffee 10 decaf; 10 caf Starbucks Via
    Coffee creamer Quest MCT powder
    Staple Olive oil
    Dinners vege, meat, cheese, spice
    Last edited by RockDoc; 08-19-2019 at 00:47.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by kestral View Post
    Pemmican is keto friendly and calorie dense, worked for native Americans.
    Pemmican gives you pretty bad gas. Best to avoid if you're hiking with a tribe ;P

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockDoc View Post
    We have finalized and packed our food, and it comes out to 15.7 lbs total for two people for 10 days. I'll carry 10 lbs and my petite wife will carry 5 lbs, and this will get lighter as the days go by. That's 0.8 lbs/day per person. We are looking at 30,000 ft of climb so we need to keep this number low, yet the nutrition and food value is as high as possible. Mainly fat and protein. Our livers produce glucose on demand.

    We are relying heavily on homemade dehydrated food (some purchased dehydrated food, like whole eggs, cheddar cheese powder, and PB2). Purchased products are mostly splurges like chocolate and Moon Cheese. We dehydrated cooked hamburger, sausage, and bacon to put in our meals. Again, we are fat adapted Keto (3.5 years). And we've done this before, week long on the PCT (we were so satisfied that we didn't eat all the food that time, 2 years ago), and several section hikes on AT. Happy to share weights if anyone is interested. Basically breakfasts and dinners are 6 oz each, sealed in Foodsaver bags. We use a Gigapower stove just to boil water, then let the food sit in an insulated cozy for 10 minutes. I figure we'll need to carry two 8 oz canisters for the trip--we like to make coffee twice/day.

    Breakfast Egg, cheese, sausage, bacon ham
    Snack Granola bars - homemade vanilla nut (recipe in Eat Rich Live Long)
    Snack Protein bars - homemade
    Snack Beef Jerky - People's choice (no sugar)
    Snack dried fruit - organic peaches, kiwis, apricots
    Snack PB 2 powdered almond butter
    Snack Beef stick - Costco, individ wrapped
    Snack String cheese - Frigo, individ wrapped
    Spluge Macademia nuts
    Spluge Choc covered espresso beans
    Spluge Moon cheese
    Snack Chocolate bar, Lindt 90%
    Coffee 10 decaf; 10 caf Starbucks Via
    Coffee creamer Quest MCT powder
    Staple Olive oil
    Dinners vege, meat, cheese, spice


    To clarify, 10.7 lbs for two, that's two people for 10 days? .8 lbs/per/day? Wow. Really food wt impressed! Lots of fats and protein as you state. Thx for sharing some details. This doesn't add up though: "Basically breakfasts and dinners are 6 oz each,.." Is that per per or for two p? Not for 2 peeps? Ok if it is 2 p that's 24 oz for bfast and dinner?/day?

  11. #51

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    No, it really works. If you use the right dehydrated foods, like whole eggs, sausage, hamburger, vegetables, cheddar cheese, etc, a six ounce package can be split into two huge bowls of food for two hungry hikers. We did it twice a day for 10 days on a very tough hike, and just added in a few other snacks like jerky, moon cheese, and some dried fruit.

    Four ounces is a little small, and seven ounces is a bit much. Most were 5.5 oz, just about perfect. Again, we are fat adapted for 3.5 years and keto enough that we don't get hungry on the trail.

    High protein (~35%), moderate fat (~50%), and low carb (~15%) can work. I would suggest that it is similar macro to ancient hunter gatherer cultures, from which we evolved. They certainly weren't eating 80% carbs like the PCT hikers I saw, starving and unable to access their bodily fat stores because the first thing that happens is the insulin rush turns off fat burning. A high carb diet may work for some, but for many of us it's a diabetes starter kit once you are over 50.

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