WhiteBlaze Pages 2024
A Complete Appalachian Trail Guidebook.
AVAILABLE NOW. $4 for interactive PDF(smartphone version)
Read more here WhiteBlaze Pages Store

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 53

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Registered User Ben795's Avatar
    Join Date
    06-16-2019
    Location
    Medford, Ma.
    Age
    67
    Posts
    18
    Images
    1

    Default Is “flip flopping” in separate attempts, considered a thru-hike?

    Not to diminish anyone who completed the entire length..but. I saw a post of a guy who “Flip-Flopped” he claims he went Va to Maine, and then Va. to Georgia in two separate stints. Is that not a considered a couple of section hikes, rather than an actual AT Thru-hike? Which I always considered to be the entire length in one attempt, either direction. Still a great accomplishment, no matter how it’s labeled.

  2. #2

    Default A thru-hike is walking entire AT in 12 months or less

    A hike of the entire A.T. in 12 months or less, including a flip flop itinerary, is considered a thru-hike by the Appalachian Trail Conservancy, the lead organization overseeing management and preservation of the Appalachian National Scenic Trail.

    With between 4,000 and 5,000 people a year attempting thru-hikes, most in a relatively narrow time frame, trail use must be dispersed in time or space to continue to be sustainable. Those attempting flip flop thru-hikers (or starting at the traditional start locations outside the most popular times) can help spread out use.

    Spreading out hiker traffic reduces the social impacts associated with crowding, the impacts to natural resources associated with crowding, and the spread of disease (namely norovirus). Spreading out use also generally makes work easier for volunteers.

    Spreading out use also helps trailside communities by evening out the flow of hikers and creating a longer season, instead of being overwhelmed by more hikers than they can serve.


    ATC Recognition Policy
    • We hold high expectations of 2,000-milers that include treating the natural environment, A.T. communities, other hikers, and our agency partners--whose land the A.T. passes through--with kindness, respect, and cooperation;
    • We operate on the honor system;
    • We give equal recognition to thru-hikers and section hikers;
    • We recognize hikers regardless of sequence, direction, speed, or whether they carry a pack;
    • In the event of an emergency, such as a flood, a forest fire, or an impending storm, blue-blazed trails or officially required roadwalks are viable substitutes for the white-blazed route.


    www.appalachiantrail.org/home/community/2000-miler-application

  3. #3
    Registered User Ben795's Avatar
    Join Date
    06-16-2019
    Location
    Medford, Ma.
    Age
    67
    Posts
    18
    Images
    1

    Thumbs up

    Thanks for the clarification, as I have only section hiked the AT in the Northeast, I was just unsure of how the actual “ Thru-hike” was determined. I have met a lot of northbound thruhikers at the AMC huts, and campsites in the N.H. Whites and up in Baxter State Park Me. In late summer and early fall, Both of which I frequent, and really enjoy the stories of the trail. Rock on!

  4. #4
    Registered User gwb's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-15-2011
    Location
    lancaster pa
    Age
    50
    Posts
    144
    Images
    2

    Default

    I meet a lot of hikers whom call themselves thru hikers that obviously are not. I say who cares. If it is that important to someone that they want to lie, so be it, but what's worse than lying to yourself?

  5. #5
    Registered User scope's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-08-2006
    Location
    Chamblee, GA
    Age
    60
    Posts
    1,582
    Images
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    I still cannot believe this is an issue that impacts the hikes of others.....
    I doubt that it ever has. Only internet hikers.

    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    That comparison is belittling the accomplishment of completing a thru hike in only 12 months.

    Under that logic, a person who can manage to run a marathon in under 3 hours is no better than someone who walks 1 mile every day for 21 days... because both have gone 21 miles.
    While I don't care for this logic, I would have to admit to feeling similar feelings if I was somehow comparing hikes with someone, like in a social environment where I know a person and know what their hike was vs. mine. Not like I'm going to be on some sort of list of thru hikers that are being invited to the White House, LOL, where I might find fault with others on the list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    It also involves what the 2 stints are, or more specifically where is the fuzzy line between 1 and 2 stints. If it is two stints, meaning separate and distinct long sections it would be at it's heart a section hike completion of the AT. If it's one it is a thru hike of the AT.

    In this it sounds like the OP's person did not do a thru, but specifically 2 sections as I first read it, as separate times. However if he just flipped that is a completed thru hike.

    Officially if completed in year, it's a thru. In the spirit, if it's 2 (or more) 'separate stints' it is not.
    I'm confused, are you saying a flip-flop in the same year is or isn't a thru hike IYO? Of course, a planned flip-flop is most certainly a thru hike. At heart, there shouldn't be an extended break between "stints", but sometimes things are out of your control. I think the 12-mo requirement imposed by the ATC comes pretty close to accommodating these thrus without being overly lenient. Its an arbitrary designation, but I suppose you have to draw the line somewhere, at least for giving out the 2000-miler recognition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauriep View Post
    A hike of the entire A.T. in 12 months or less, including a flip flop itinerary, is considered a thru-hike by the Appalachian Trail Conservancy, the lead organization overseeing management and preservation of the Appalachian National Scenic Trail.
    [*]We operate on the honor system;[*]We give equal recognition to thru-hikers and section hikers;
    www.appalachiantrail.org/home/community/2000-miler-application
    Quote Originally Posted by gwb View Post
    I meet a lot of hikers whom call themselves thru hikers that obviously are not. I say who cares. If it is that important to someone that they want to lie, so be it, but what's worse than lying to yourself?
    My guess is what's worse is being somehow affiliated socially with someone you know didn't thru, but rather sectioned the AT, and is referring to their hike as a thru hike as opposed to what you might have done all at once. That's the only benefit I can see to this discussion, is how to put them in their place. Being that its based on an "honor system", I do think sometimes folks need to be called on their supposed honor, especially if you're going to continue to be around them. Otherwise, folks are going to lie to you about stuff, and there's nothing you're gonna do about it except not befriend them and not let it occupy space in your mind.
    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-08-2012
    Location
    Taghkanic, New York, United States
    Posts
    3,198
    Journal Entries
    11

    Default

    Officially if completed in year, it's a thru. In the spirit, if it's 2 (or more) 'separate stints' it is not.

  7. #7
    Registered User JPritch's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-03-2017
    Location
    Lynchburg, VA
    Age
    45
    Posts
    675

    Default

    Maybe I'm biased as I'm a section hiker, but I don't see why folks get so wound up around "thru" hike status. It kind of turns into a pissing contest. Did it non-stop vs took a break, Flip-flopper, NOBO/SOBO, blue or yellow blazed a few miles, did more zeroes and hotels than the other guy, took longer, slackpacked..... This is truly a situation where HYOH matters!
    It is what it is.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    Officially if completed in year, it's a thru. In the spirit, if it's 2 (or more) 'separate stints' it is not.
    I don't agree with you at all. The "In the spirit, if it's 2 (or more) 'separate stints' it is not." is your own thought.
    Read what Laurie posted above and you will not find your idea of a thru hike anywhere in her post.

    Flyin' Brian was not the first person to do a single year triple crown if one were to follow your guidelines.
    Stumpknocker
    Appalachian Trail is 35.9% complete.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-08-2012
    Location
    Taghkanic, New York, United States
    Posts
    3,198
    Journal Entries
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stumpknocker View Post
    I don't agree with you at all. The "In the spirit, if it's 2 (or more) 'separate stints' it is not." is your own thought.
    Read what Laurie posted above and you will not find your idea of a thru hike anywhere in her post.

    Flyin' Brian was not the first person to do a single year triple crown if one were to follow your guidelines.
    LaurieIP's post does not conflict with mine if you read it as I said that ATC defines it as what Laurie says.

    It's the spirit of the thru hike, what a thru hike is at it's heart that Lauri does not address but defaults strictly to the 'legalism' of the ATC definition.

    It als involves what the 2 stints are, or more specifically where is the fuzzy line between 1 and 2 stints. If it is two stints, meaning separate and distinct long sections it would be at it's heart a section hike completion of the AT. If it's one it is a thru hike of the AT.

    To that the person must decide if that hike is one or two, or just chose to hide behind the legalistic definition of the thru hike. That last part is what I feel is important. I always hate using legalistic definitions as it does ignore the heart, and to me, in the end, the heart is the only thing that what matters and being true to oneself is being true to one's heart, legalism and the ATC's definition is nothing and will not satisfy.

    IDK about Flyin Brian, but if his triple crown it was planned as a single hike, before he ended any section portion he was doing, then it would include a AT thru no matter when it came about. Likewise flipping can be thus planned, especially with the intensive usage.

    In this it sounds like the OP's person did not do a thru, but specifically 2 sections as I first read it, as separate times. However if he just flipped that is a completed thru hike.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    LaurieIP's post does not conflict with mine if you read it as I said that ATC defines it as what Laurie says.

    It's the spirit of the thru hike, what a thru hike is at it's heart that Lauri does not address but defaults strictly to the 'legalism' of the ATC definition.

    It als involves what the 2 stints are, or more specifically where is the fuzzy line between 1 and 2 stints. If it is two stints, meaning separate and distinct long sections it would be at it's heart a section hike completion of the AT. If it's one it is a thru hike of the AT.

    To that the person must decide if that hike is one or two, or just chose to hide behind the legalistic definition of the thru hike. That last part is what I feel is important. I always hate using legalistic definitions as it does ignore the heart, and to me, in the end, the heart is the only thing that what matters and being true to oneself is being true to one's heart, legalism and the ATC's definition is nothing and will not satisfy.

    IDK about Flyin Brian, but if his triple crown it was planned as a single hike, before he ended any section portion he was doing, then it would include a AT thru no matter when it came about. Likewise flipping can be thus planned, especially with the intensive usage.

    In this it sounds like the OP's person did not do a thru, but specifically 2 sections as I first read it, as separate times. However if he just flipped that is a completed thru hike.
    I'm very bad at making my point...but my point was that your view encompassed everyone's view when you said "Officially if completed in year, it's a thru. In the spirit, if it's 2 (or more) 'separate stints' it is not." in your earlier post.
    Had you said "In my view", I would not have had any issue.

    You don't get to make the rules for everyone else. You can make your own rules, but don't include me in them please. I don't agree with your version...I have my own version.

    In my version, if a person hikes every mile of the AT in a 365 period, that person is a thru hiker. They might walk 30 days, take 30 days off, walk 30 days, take another 30 days off and so on. They would still be considered a thru hiker by the ATC if they walked the entire trail in a year. They might consider their hike a section hike or a thru hike. Doesn't matter, because either would be correct in their view.

    In my view, it is a lot harder doing the AT in sections than as a thru hike.

    I don't like being argumentative, but I don't want to be included in someone's blanket statement that attempts to include me.

    I think it's important to provide your view, but it's just that....your view.
    Stumpknocker
    Appalachian Trail is 35.9% complete.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-08-2012
    Location
    Taghkanic, New York, United States
    Posts
    3,198
    Journal Entries
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stumpknocker View Post
    I'm very bad at making my point...but my point was that your view encompassed everyone's view when you said "Officially if completed in year, it's a thru. In the spirit, if it's 2 (or more) 'separate stints' it is not." in your earlier post.
    Had you said "In my view", I would not have had any issue.

    You don't get to make the rules for everyone else. You can make your own rules, but don't include me in them please. I don't agree with your version...I have my own version.

    In my version, if a person hikes every mile of the AT in a 365 period, that person is a thru hiker. They might walk 30 days, take 30 days off, walk 30 days, take another 30 days off and so on. They would still be considered a thru hiker by the ATC if they walked the entire trail in a year. They might consider their hike a section hike or a thru hike. Doesn't matter, because either would be correct in their view.

    In my view, it is a lot harder doing the AT in sections than as a thru hike.

    I don't like being argumentative, but I don't want to be included in someone's blanket statement that attempts to include me.

    I think it's important to provide your view, but it's just that....your view.
    See post #11

  12. #12
    GSMNP 900 Miler
    Join Date
    02-25-2007
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Age
    57
    Posts
    4,861
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    LaurieIP's post does not conflict with mine if you read it as I said that ATC defines it as what Laurie says.
    It's the spirit of the thru hike, what a thru hike is at it's heart that Lauri does not address but defaults strictly to the 'legalism' of the ATC definition.
    ...
    But you immediately start running in to legalisms because of the ways you might define a "stint'.
    After all, where do you draw the line between the following to call it the "spirit" of a thru hike
    1. Someone who never leaves the trail (all resupplies come to them).
    2. Someone who steps off the trail for a few hours to resupply.
    3. Someone who goes into town to resupply.
    4. Someone who goes into town to resupply and spend the night.
    5. Someone who goes into town to resupply and spend a couple of nights (i.e. takes an off trail zero)
    6. Someone who goes into town because they are sick and spends a week (i.e. takes a week of zeros)
    7. Someone who goes into town, catches a flight home to attend a wedding, flies back and returns to the trail in less than 72 hours.
    8. Someone who goes into town, catches a flight home, gets sick, stays home for a week, flies back and returns to the trail.
    9. Someone who goes into town, catches a flight home, stays a month just because they want to, flies back and returns to the trail.
    10. Someone who does a flip flop.
    11. Someone who does a flip flop, but stays in a hotel to rest for a week before starting the next section.
    12. Someone who does a flip flog, but goes home for 3 days before heading out to the next section.
    13. Someone who does a flip flop, but goes home for 3 months between flops.


    So it would seem item #1 above most definitely qualifies as the spirit of a thru, and #13 is only "legally" a thru.
    Which step did we change from the "spirit" of a thru and fell into only a "legal" thru?

    I believe there was a very good reason the ATC decided to simply define a thru as

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-08-2012
    Location
    Taghkanic, New York, United States
    Posts
    3,198
    Journal Entries
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    But you immediately start running in to legalisms because of the ways you might define a "stint'.
    After all, where do you draw the line between the following to call it the "spirit" of a thru hike
    1. Someone who never leaves the trail (all resupplies come to them).
    2. Someone who steps off the trail for a few hours to resupply.
    3. Someone who goes into town to resupply.
    4. Someone who goes into town to resupply and spend the night.
    5. Someone who goes into town to resupply and spend a couple of nights (i.e. takes an off trail zero)
    6. Someone who goes into town because they are sick and spends a week (i.e. takes a week of zeros)
    7. Someone who goes into town, catches a flight home to attend a wedding, flies back and returns to the trail in less than 72 hours.
    8. Someone who goes into town, catches a flight home, gets sick, stays home for a week, flies back and returns to the trail.
    9. Someone who goes into town, catches a flight home, stays a month just because they want to, flies back and returns to the trail.
    10. Someone who does a flip flop.
    11. Someone who does a flip flop, but stays in a hotel to rest for a week before starting the next section.
    12. Someone who does a flip flog, but goes home for 3 days before heading out to the next section.
    13. Someone who does a flip flop, but goes home for 3 months between flops.


    So it would seem item #1 above most definitely qualifies as the spirit of a thru, and #13 is only "legally" a thru.
    Which step did we change from the "spirit" of a thru and fell into only a "legal" thru?

    I believe there was a very good reason the ATC decided to simply define a thru as
    My answer:
    The person will ask that question and come up with their answer.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-08-2012
    Location
    Taghkanic, New York, United States
    Posts
    3,198
    Journal Entries
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    ...
    I believe there was a very good reason the ATC decided to simply define a thru as... We define a thru-hike as a hike of the entire A.T. in 12 months or less.
    And this is a problem it itself. If someone took 13 months to complete the trail and was on trail with full determination to get to the end, advancing the entire time, lets just say due to some disability it took this long, it would not be a thru hike according to the ATC definition. However it sure as hiker funk a thru hike. Also I'm sure that there are people who feel they are section hikers who just happened to complete it in a year, but know that it was never intended as such and consider themselves section hikers.

    And that's the invalidation of ATC defining it 'in spirit', it does not include all thru hikes, and can include section hikers as thru hikers, thus is not defining thru hikes, but some 'lesser standard'. At the end of the day a person must conclude (if they care to) if they thru hiked the trail or not, regardless of ATC and above all be true to themselves.

    Thus as stumpknocker has said:

    but I don't want to be included in someone's blanket statement that attempts to include me.

    I think it's important to provide your view, but it's just that....your view


    Bold mine

    Where 'your' in 'your view' also should include ATC, if one wants to be consistent.


    Yes they can set the legal definition, but that to me in the end will not satisfy and one must reconcile it to their heart.

  15. #15

    Default

    At the end of they day, who cares? Did they/you make the walk for a title or did you make the walk to enjoy the journey from Georgia to Maine? The "title" represents everything that I go out into the woods to get away from.

  16. #16
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-12-2002
    Location
    Marlboro, MA
    Posts
    7,145
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    1

    Default

    Not sure people care about it so much, but it is interesting to think that when future generations learn that a man by the name of Earl Shaffer was the first person to thru hike the AT, they may not automatically assume he walked from one end to the other in a single journey.

  17. #17

    Default

    The debate about the term implies that one has accomplished something that the other hasn't. They've both walked the same distance. One was just privileged to have a time window to do it one trip. The other had to fight, claw, and scratch to find many windows of time to complete the journey. I think of them all as AT hikers. Then again, I just dont like labeling or putting people in boxes.

  18. #18
    GSMNP 900 Miler
    Join Date
    02-25-2007
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Age
    57
    Posts
    4,861
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbillyhanger View Post
    The debate about the term implies that one has accomplished something that the other hasn't...
    That comparison is belittling the accomplishment of completing a thru hike in only 12 months.

    Under that logic, a person who can manage to run a marathon in under 3 hours is no better than someone who walks 1 mile every day for 21 days... because both have gone 21 miles.

  19. #19

    Default

    That's right. They are both marathoners. 3 hours or 20 hours. Both marathoners. Thru, flip flop, etc are just terms trying to distinguish or make one better. I could debate that the section hiker has accomplished a harder task. They didn't have the luxury of taking 4 or 6 months off from work. They had to juggle work and planning and scheduling, etc. I'll just call them AT hikers. Use your labels if you'd like.

  20. #20
    Registered User scope's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-08-2006
    Location
    Chamblee, GA
    Age
    60
    Posts
    1,582
    Images
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbillyhanger View Post
    The debate about the term implies that one has accomplished something that the other hasn't. They've both walked the same distance. One was just privileged to have a time window to do it one trip. The other had to fight, claw, and scratch to find many windows of time to complete the journey. I think of them all as AT hikers. Then again, I just dont like labeling or putting people in boxes.
    Couldn't agree more regarding putting labels on folks. I think the ATC got it right making it a 2000-miler designation, irregardless of the "thru hike" specification. And regarding slack packing, isn't that what the record holders are? Got no problem with it.
    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
++ New Posts ++

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •