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  1. #41

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    Probably an interesting family discussion ensued when those teenagers got home. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  2. #42
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    FYI, NH charges for actual costs incurred for rescues as long as they determine negligence. The negligent determination is a work in progress but having the right gear is on the list. They publish a gear list for all seasons (which tends to be overkill). If they do not have the gear, its pretty well an instant bill. Some of the thing seem arbitrary. They have cited one winter hiker with carrying "inadequate food" in addition to other issues as a reason to bill.

    The bill is waived if the hiker has hunting, fishing or ATV registrations or a voluntary hike safe card. Here is the statute. http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../206-26-bb.htm

    In this case the family has said they will pay the costs so it will most likely not be contested. In most cases the bill gets paid. Generally its only contested when the fees get high like when a helicopter gets called in. Most of the S&R folks are volunteers, they do not get any of the fee. It mostly goes to NH F&G overtime and expenses (like helicopters). Note if the volunteers are qualified members of a rescue organization that is called up to assist they are eligible to get state workman's compensation if they are injured.

    The scary part is NH F&G staff are getting old and ready to retire, they have an ongoing significant loss of expertise and are having a tough time recruiting as the pay is low and they are on call 24/7. If they are not there to answer the call it would have been two deaths.

  3. #43

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    well at least we know what the remedy is: Increase their pay

    Easy to say right? :-)




    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    FYI, NH charges for actual costs incurred for rescues as long as they determine negligence. The negligent determination is a work in progress but having the right gear is on the list. They publish a gear list for all seasons (which tends to be overkill). If they do not have the gear, its pretty well an instant bill. Some of the thing seem arbitrary. They have cited one winter hiker with carrying "inadequate food" in addition to other issues as a reason to bill.

    The bill is waived if the hiker has hunting, fishing or ATV registrations or a voluntary hike safe card. Here is the statute. http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../206-26-bb.htm

    In this case the family has said they will pay the costs so it will most likely not be contested. In most cases the bill gets paid. Generally its only contested when the fees get high like when a helicopter gets called in. Most of the S&R folks are volunteers, they do not get any of the fee. It mostly goes to NH F&G overtime and expenses (like helicopters). Note if the volunteers are qualified members of a rescue organization that is called up to assist they are eligible to get state workman's compensation if they are injured.

    The scary part is NH F&G staff are getting old and ready to retire, they have an ongoing significant loss of expertise and are having a tough time recruiting as the pay is low and they are on call 24/7. If they are not there to answer the call it would have been two deaths.
    Let me go

  4. #44
    Registered User Ben795's Avatar
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    My first WM climb was in 1975, when a friend and I got a couple cheap orange Jansport ext frame packs, and with heavy car camping sleeping bags, extra jeans, and a bag of weed, we went up a steep trail to Whaleback. Not knowing anything about backpacking. As we were nearing tree line about quite late in the day, we met some “ Hippy AMC Croo” with the old oak frame canvas pack boards, ( probably still on someone’s back today) They warned us that camping above treeline is foolish and dangerous. They went so far as to call us stupid.. ( which was true) We laughed at them, and that night as we did camp above tree line, we near froze, our canteen water did.. and had a hard time coming down Flumeslide all dehydrated and tired, legs like rubber, from little sleep and no water. We learned a hard lesson. After many years of spending time on the trail, I still learn what I need, and what I never really needed to carry. I was young and ignorant, and see a lot of other folks on the trails who seem likewise. No gear, water, clothing, in Levi’s and Chuck Taylors. I try to “diplomatically” spread some trail knowledge. I was too arrogant to listen being preached to at 18 years old, so I won’t do that to a young novice. Helpful hints is what I try and pass on. A rookie on the trails needs to be welcomed first, then educated with good spirit, and good intentions. Nobody wants to be called an idiot, even if they seem to be, just saying.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben795 View Post
    A rookie on the trails needs to be welcomed first, then educated with good spirit, and good intentions
    This reminded me of Jack Tarlin, RIP

  6. #46
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    Removed my slapback reply to Wi. Ultralighter. I was just being sarcastic. All respect to those who Thru- hike. Many start, not so many finish. Lucky to live in the Northeast, I frequent the northern terminus. Between Katahdin and the Knife Edge, and Mt. Washington, we have a lot of sections of the AT that are really great. Enjoying the posts.. thanks.
    Last edited by Ben795; 06-18-2019 at 17:23.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben795 View Post
    Who Hell is Jack Tarlin? And why is he so dead? Maybe he didn’t get the right education with the right intentions.. just saying. I’ve been on the Rockpile in all four seasons, in the last 40 plus years, it’s a beast. A lot of newbies do it, most make it, and most get home safe. I don’t know what your experience is Cheesehead, but if you come here...my respectful advice is, don’t go up a TOO light! It’s not Sugarbush Hill.
    Jack Tarlin, AKA Baltimore Jack. Do some research.
    "Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011

  8. #48
    Registered User Ben795's Avatar
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    Will do. I just thought it was some sarcastic reply to my post, so I felt smackback was due.. I’ll look up a Jack now. My apologies to The ultralighter from Wi. I just read up on Baltimore Jack, and know now that he was a decent, and helpful guy on the trail. ( which was the point I was attempting) Impressive he did the Thru eight times. Always wanted to, but family and career kept my to weekends and vacation weeks only. Hike on friends.. please dismiss my cynicism, as you can see, I’m an old hiking dude, just new to this forum.
    Last edited by Ben795; 06-18-2019 at 15:37.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    What is wrong with people???

    Who hikes ahead and leaves a 80 yr old family member behind?

    Or, a mother.

    Or anyone else they went with.......


    He should cut them out of his will...
    About 30 years ago, in the dead of winter, my wife and I came across this same basic situation on the AT in the Smokies east of Newfound Gap. The family had just left this old guy behind, and he had gotten himself totally confused. We had to abandon our day hike to Charlies Bunion and walk him back to Newfound Gap. Oddly enough, I don't recall ever seeing the family there, maybe we passed him off to a Ranger; I really just don't remember.

    But it's not just an artifact of what seems to be our generally-declining level of common sense; this was a long time ago.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    The bill is waived if the hiker has hunting, fishing or ATV registrations or a voluntary hike safe card. Here is the statute. http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../206-26-bb.htm
    .
    As you know, the statute goes on to say that the bill (capped at $10k, I think) is not waived if the hikers behave recklessly.

    Since the hikers breached their duty (as articulated buy the Hike Safe program) to stick together, wouldn’t the state consider that “reckless”?

    Specifics and details matter, of course. I would not to presume that negligence or recklessness was actually the case without knowing much more than what’s in the initial reports. So just talking “theoretically”.

  11. #51
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    That whole "reckless" issue is even more of work in progress. To a couch potato watching the dribble off of cable news, stepping out of car at a trailhead is reckless. There have been times where Fish And Game in certain extreme winter conditions have stated that anyone going out in predicted conditions is inherently reckless and several years ago there was a statement that anyone going off trail in the winter was reckless. IMHO the policy has been and is arbitrary and in the past was on occasion politically motivated. My theory is if someone buys a hike safe card, its highly doubtful that F&G is going to try to bill as it would be negative publicity for the program.

  12. #52
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    I do a lot of weekend backpacking hikes in the White and Baxter, As I’m only 3 hours from the Whites and about 5 from Baxter. My wife loves to day hike, but prefers high thread count sleeping accommodations. She says she worries about me hiking and climbing alone, which I like to do often, but I do stay on our very well blazed trails, and know that should a mishap ( ankle sprain or slip and fall) it’s a good possibility that someone will be by, at least on our heavily traveled trails. I always have the gear needed to hunker down and stay hydrated, warm and dry for a night, if need be. Can’t remember any time I had been on a trail in the Whites, Baxter, or Acadia, where I didn’t see another hiker for more than a day. Stay on the trails, have gear for emergency, and chances are you’ll be OK. Anything can happen, but being prepared for the “ just in case” is always your best bet. On 2/15/2015, a pretty experienced hiker, Kate Matrosova, went solo to do a Winter Presidential Traverse, forecast was BAD..they found her frozen to death near Madison Hut, Star Lake. Point being, even experienced climbers and hikers need to heed warnings. As Viesturs said..” getting to the top is optional, getting back down is mandatory”
    Last edited by Ben795; 06-19-2019 at 20:21.

  13. #53

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    Well, you might notice that the majority of rescues involve seniors 60+. So there is some reason for concern as we get older and still think we're 30.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    Well, you might notice that the majority of rescues involve seniors 60+. So there is some reason for concern as we get older and still think we're 30.
    Very true. Being 62, although pretty active and in good shape, I have realized my limitations. I don’t bound from rock to rock on my descents like I did in my earlier years. I have to step aside a little more for passing climbers, ( as the oldsters had to for me!) I’m not in a hurry like I was when younger anyways. I still get there, just a bit later now.. I think we all need to know our abilities, regardless of age. I have met thruhikers and mountain climbers, older than me, who can probably smoke a lot of 30 year old self anointed superstars. You are a N.H. Guy, you’ll appreciate this true tale. On a FOT48 a couple years ago, I was on Ammonoosuc Ravine up to Monroe, about half way up, I stepped aside for a 20 something female “runner” in a bikini bottom, sport bra, and sneakers. Not even a water bottle. And this girl was knock out fine! Before I got to tree line, she was bouncing back down with a smile on her face, and not even a bead of sweat.. damn. She was killer. Impressive.
    Last edited by Ben795; 06-19-2019 at 21:04.

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