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  1. #21
    Garlic
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfoxengineering View Post
    I just think it's funny that we are talking about Mountain House and Gatorade.
    Is there reallllly no better options?
    My thoughts exactly. How about a bag of nuts and one of raisins? Reusable packaging, too.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by garlic08 View Post
    My thoughts exactly. How about a bag of nuts and one of raisins? Reusable packaging, too.
    Even if one wanted to stick to Whey Protein powder.

    Surely.. there are better options than Gatorade Brand.

    Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

  3. #23
    Leonidas
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfoxengineering View Post
    Even if one wanted to stick to Whey Protein powder.

    Surely.. there are better options than Gatorade Brand.

    Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
    I alternate between Musclepharm Combat and Optimum Nutrition 100% whey, I mix it with instant oats on trail. Add cold water and boom, breakfast and dinner. Granted I also eat PB and other stuff to add more calories during snacks and use a 100 calorie per scoop electrolyte powder. YMMV
    AT: 471 mi

    Pinhoti Trail: 254 mi

    @leonidasonthetrail

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC13 View Post
    I alternate between Musclepharm Combat and Optimum Nutrition 100% whey, I mix it with instant oats on trail. Add cold water and boom, breakfast and dinner. Granted I also eat PB and other stuff to add more calories during snacks and use a 100 calorie per scoop electrolyte powder. YMMV
    All is well.

    I was just saying.

    If your gonna live on 700 calories of protein powder a day.

    At least use something better than Gatorade brand lol.

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  5. #25

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    Gatorade is a big company and there's a few benefits:
    -taste is good in vanilla for me
    -everything that isn't sugar or protein is just electrolytes eg sodium
    -it's low cost ($1 per packet)
    -it's available in single serving packets instead of a gigantic tub

    I also remember buying 2.5 serving pouches on the mountain house site: https://www.mountainhouse.com/M/prod...variant_id=266 it has a bag with single serving of 49g. Weight of the bag is less so that's better obviously to make up the 28grams the pouch ways but it's still full of useless volume and weight from fat and fiber. The pouch could be discarded but then you still have to prevent it from being crushed or punctured and find a way to cook it and clean up.

    However the biggest problem I have with mountain house was that it's all eat at once while gatorade endurance I can sip or dilute with more water to give more constant energy.

    Gatorade endurance has electrolytes and simple sugars and nothing else so it seems like a decent choice and is available in convenient single serving pouches.

    During races, I'd drink Pedialyte Care + for maximum electrolytes if I didn't want the sugar calories or excessive volumes of water since it's hard to down large amounts of liquids in a short amount of time in transition.

    As a bonus, low fiber simple sugar diet should not have many potty breaks. During ironman, this is a huge plus but also on the mountain it's no good to have to poop unexpectedly in -40deg weather.

  6. #26

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    I'd argue DEXA is gold practical standard. Full body CT is clearly the best but high cost and high radiation. Comparison with CT is what DEXA claims. Obviously it's not perfect but again good correlation with CT. All those studies that don't compare against CT are flawed in my opinion as they just make up some arbitrary standard like looking at pictures. Why % body fat matters is that it sets how much energy you have available to burn like in this case of starvation vs how you look. In addition, you can be lighter and less effort uphill by carrying less fat weight.

    I do think those pics are fairly accurate eg most people are 20-25%. At 15% you start showing off your abs and to get really good definition it's below 10% but as others have said maybe you just had liposuction and carry no fat at your abs even if you are at 15% vs someone at 12% that isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Olymic athletes tend to be around 10% competitive distance runners in 6-8 % range often .
    Below isnt exact, but a good idea . Amt if muscle mass greatly confounds issue. So does use of diuretics to remove subcutaneous water when looking at bodybuilders....the professionals at reducing bodyfat to unhealthy temporary levels using drugs .

    Some yrs back there was a study published with multiple subjects photos at different bodyfat, measured by several technuques, with photos.

    Like to drink alcohol? Your gonna have more brown fat in abdomen
    Check out clarence bass pictures when he was 2.3% if never seen

    In fact...check out Bass at 81 today.

    Dexa is also not that accurate overall.....read up.



    Attachment 45297

  7. #27
    Leonidas
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfoxengineering View Post
    All is well.

    I was just saying.

    If your gonna live on 700 calories of protein powder a day.

    At least use something better than Gatorade brand lol.

    Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
    I gotcha, just throwing out a Gatorade alternative. I don't use any of their stuff after I figured out that they don't have sodium+magnesium+potassium. Switched to Tailwind Endurance Fuel and all my electrolyte bases are covered. The extra 400 calories from 4 scoops a day doesn't hurt either.
    AT: 471 mi

    Pinhoti Trail: 254 mi

    @leonidasonthetrail

  8. #28

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    Gatorade endurance packs on amazon are $17.61 for 12 = $1.47 while tailwind is $17.50 for 12 = $2.50 each so it's quite a bit more expensive.

    The nutritional facts are pretty similar. Interestingly I've always found a lack of potassium because the FDA regulates 100 mg per serving so I often drink No Salt which is pure potassium chloride with sparkling water.

    One of my complaints of gatorade endurance is it doesn't seem to dissolve very well in cold water so I'll try out Tailwind Endurance but another issue is that Tailwind seems like a pretty small company compared to Gatorade and those things aren't FDA regulated. Gatorade being a huge company would be a huge target to be sued but not much you would do against Tailwind if it's ingredients aren't up to par...

    Quote Originally Posted by JC13 View Post
    I gotcha, just throwing out a Gatorade alternative. I don't use any of their stuff after I figured out that they don't have sodium+magnesium+potassium. Switched to Tailwind Endurance Fuel and all my electrolyte bases are covered. The extra 400 calories from 4 scoops a day doesn't hurt either.

  9. #29
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Want Protein....
    1 Ziploc snack bag
    1 serving Natureís Plus Pea Protein
    1 serving Nido Powdered WHOLE milk
    1 serving Carnation Breaksat Essentials
    Optional:
    1 serving Cafe Bustelo or Starbucks Via Italian Roast Instant Coffee
    Add above dry ingredients to 8 ounces water, cold or hot. Shake well.
    Drink.
    Repeat as desired.
    Youíre welcome!
    Wayne

  10. #30

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    There's many ways to get protein but whey protein is all you need. If they had something missing they would just add it in and sell it as a premix. The benefits of these single stick gatorade whey protein is that they are waterproof and weigh 3gr in packaging. Being in a package also prevents spoiling and risks of bacteria growing in it which makes you sick.

    Whey doesn't dissolve instantly and is kind of clumpy if you have no shaker or blender but it's manageable to eat the clumps and down it with more water.

    I'm not suggesting you eat whey and gatorade endurance for a year but 7 days to maybe 30 days with a multivitamin seems sufficient in all you need to survive. Not carrying excess weight will greatly increase your chances of survival and ability to move quickly.

  11. #31
    Leonidas
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainguy View Post
    Gatorade endurance packs on amazon are $17.61 for 12 = $1.47 while tailwind is $17.50 for 12 = $2.50 each so it's quite a bit more expensive.

    The nutritional facts are pretty similar. Interestingly I've always found a lack of potassium because the FDA regulates 100 mg per serving so I often drink No Salt which is pure potassium chloride with sparkling water.

    One of my complaints of gatorade endurance is it doesn't seem to dissolve very well in cold water so I'll try out Tailwind Endurance but another issue is that Tailwind seems like a pretty small company compared to Gatorade and those things aren't FDA regulated. Gatorade being a huge company would be a huge target to be sued but not much you would do against Tailwind if it's ingredients aren't up to par...
    I don't use the individual packs for that reason. 50 servings for $35 is the way I roll. Not worried about suing anyone, I could have joined the lawsuit against Cytosport/MuscleMilk years ago but never bothered.
    AT: 471 mi

    Pinhoti Trail: 254 mi

    @leonidasonthetrail

  12. #32

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    Interesting discussion, but you have to consider that the calculations of fat lbs burned while eating sugar and carbs is unrealistic. The body's first reaction to simple carb ingestion is to turn off fat burning. You are running mostly as a sugar burner. This is your typical AT hiker. Plus, there is an adaptation period required for your body to build the machinery to be a fat burner (ketone producer). That takes a few weeks of low-carb diet minimum. Six months is better.

    Dr Ted Naiman explains all this very well. Basically sugar turns off fat burning. This is why so many marathon runners (and perhaps long distance hikers) are over-fat, and simplistic math calculations of fat loss just don't work (I ran over 70 ultramarathons and marathons yet remained at 25% body fat, also moved towards prediabetes). It also explains the ravenous hiker hunger experienced by the carb burners (but not ketogenic dieters). I would argue that a protein/fat-based ketogenic diet is ancestral and primal, and our bodies are not properly adapted to predominantly carb and sugar burning. OK there are exceptions, maybe 10% of population can get away with it. But the rest of us eventually get ill.

    I would also add that vegetable based proteins are not as bioavailable as animal proteins. Most are 50% or less, whereas egg or beef is 90-100%. So pea protein concoctions are not what you think they are...
    Last edited by RockDoc; 06-12-2019 at 13:06.

  13. #33

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    This should have been posted in the Trail Running and Speed Hiking section, am I right?

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockDoc View Post
    Interesting discussion, but you have to consider that the calculations of fat lbs burned while eating sugar and carbs is unrealistic. The body's first reaction to simple carb ingestion is to turn off fat burning. You are running mostly as a sugar burner. This is your typical AT hiker. Plus, there is an adaptation period required for your body to build the machinery to be a fat burner (ketone producer). That takes a few weeks of low-carb diet minimum. Six months is better.

    Dr Ted Naiman explains all this very well. Basically sugar turns off fat burning. This is why so many marathon runners (and perhaps long distance hikers) are over-fat, and simplistic math calculations of fat loss just don't work (I ran over 70 ultramarathons and marathons yet remained at 25% body fat, also moved towards prediabetes). It also explains the ravenous hiker hunger experienced by the carb burners (but not ketogenic dieters). I would argue that a protein/fat-based ketogenic diet is ancestral and primal, and our bodies are not properly adapted to predominantly carb and sugar burning. OK there are exceptions, maybe 10% of population can get away with it. But the rest of us eventually get ill.

    I would also add that vegetable based proteins are not as bioavailable as animal proteins. Most are 50% or less, whereas egg or beef is 90-100%. So pea protein concoctions are not what you think they are...
    Thanks for some actual science. SMH (not at you RockDoc)
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

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  15. #35
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    I'm just trying to figure out how to gain weight on my next thru hike

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  16. #36
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    RockDock,
    I was hoping that you would find this thread.
    I guess I wonít be buying anymore Pea Protein. Shucks. It sure seemed to get me through the Rockies.
    Wayne

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockDoc View Post
    ............. I would argue that a protein/fat-based ketogenic diet is ancestral and primal, and our bodies are not properly adapted to predominantly carb and sugar burning. OK there are exceptions, maybe 10% of population can get away with it. But the rest of us eventually get ill..........
    Here is an article you might find interesting. https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...er-really-eat/
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  18. #38
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    I spoke too soon!
    Re: Pea Protein.
    It seems that the latest Vegan assault on good eating are meatless imitation burgers, nuggets, etc. at fast food outlets.
    Most of these things are based on Pea Protein.
    I was a trend setter and didnít know it.
    Wayne

  19. #39
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    At 720 daily cals doing 25's you're daily running a caloric and, based on your food thoughts, an overall wider nutritional deficit. Three days is short term compared to 2-3 wks. It will likely catch up to your energy and wider nutritional requirements...particularly blaring is that you're attempting this expecting simple sugars in Gatorade Endurance to meet immediate energy needs which will also result in quick and steep energy crashes. I may have missed something relevant to your case because I didn't read every post.

  20. #40
    Some days, it's not worth chewing through the restraints.
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    Are you planning this as a solo trip? If going with others, are they all planning the same diet tactic? Are they aware of your plan?

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