conditions on AT between Moosilauke and Kinsmans?

[somers515]

I'm planning on starting a backpacking trip in the Whites next week (weather permitting). I understand from reading reports at newenglandtrailconditions.com that the black flies aren't here yet but will likely be here soon and I think I'm as prepared as I can be for that. My question is more about snowshoes/microspikes/waterproof socks with trail runners? The general consensus is that currently you can bare boot up to about 3,000 feet then you are putting on micro spikes to deal with the monorail and then above tree line you can bare boot again. I haven't read too many reports recently where people found snow shoes helpful. But what about sections of trail that aren't visited by people peak bagging a 4000 footer? For example the Kinsman Ridge Trail/AT between Moosilauke and Kinsmans? Would a monorail even develop there? If there is no monorail would it be correct to assume that there would be a lot more just rotten snow to deal with? Would snow shoes be necessary or just plan on some real slow going in that section? Anyone willing to hazard a guess on what the conditions might be like next week? All tips and advice welcome so I can be prepared as possible. Thanks in advance white blaze!

[T.S.Kobzol]

Monorail will soften with warm weather and postholing commences.

The black flies were out in Buxton Maine last Saturday.


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[LoneStranger]

You're in luck as this guy was nice enough to show you what the Moosilauke descent looked like on Monday



Starts going down around 8 minutes in if the link doesn't take you to that point.

SPOILER WARNING: They made it down Moosilauke just fine on the monorail, but had to turn back before Kinsman. Deep postholing once they hit the low traffic areas so they headed back to fetch snowshoes to try again. Hopefully they took a zero to stay out of the weather today.

I'm with Peakbagger on this one, too early!

[C4web88]

You're in luck as this guy was nice enough to show you what the Moosilauke descent looked like on Monday



Starts going down around 8 minutes in if the link doesn't take you to that point.

SPOILER WARNING: They made it down Moosilauke just fine on the monorail, but had to turn back before Kinsman. Deep postholing once they hit the low traffic areas so they headed back to fetch snowshoes to try again. Hopefully they took a zero to stay out of the weather today.

I'm with Peakbagger on this one, too early!

Holy crap that guy is burning rubber, 77 days and hes in the whites? That's impressive!

[LoneStranger]

Holy crap that guy is burning rubber, 77 days and hes in the whites? That's impressive!

Yup, he's gonna yoyo though if he doesn't slow down he may have to wait for Katahdin to open. He is traveling very light while his partner seems to be carrying more. They have been staying indoors frequently with lots of restaurant meals. Hammering out big miles since VA or thereabouts, but snow is going to slow them down now.

[Thrifty Endurance]

That is Craig Mains, AKA "Hawk." He is traveling with T-Rex who is an experienced mountaineer who helped rescue those Russian skiers in the Alps. They are well equipped and have the strength and stamina to traverse the snowy/frozen tundra. He usually drops a vid either late at night or really early in the am, if anyone is interested in following. The issue with Mt. Katahdin is not the summit, The whole area is impassable, according to Baxter State Park...probably won't open until the first week in June. We are all waiting for the deep thaw and the SOBOs are going to be starting next month. Good luck SOBOs!

[Deadeye]

That is Craig Mains, AKA "Hawk." He is traveling with T-Rex who is an experienced mountaineer who helped rescue those Russian skiers in the Alps. They are well equipped and have the strength and stamina to traverse the snowy/frozen tundra. He usually drops a vid either late at night or really early in the am, if anyone is interested in following. The issue with Mt. Katahdin is not the summit, The whole area is impassable, according to Baxter State Park...probably won't open until the first week in June. We are all waiting for the deep thaw and the SOBOs are going to be starting next month. Good luck SOBOs!

He may be well equipped and experienced, but he's not very considerate. Hiking in Northern New England before Memorial day (or even later this year) can be very damaging to the trail, hence strongly discouraged by those that maintain it.

[C4web88]

That is Craig Mains, AKA "Hawk." He is traveling with T-Rex who is an experienced mountaineer who helped rescue those Russian skiers in the Alps. They are well equipped and have the strength and stamina to traverse the snowy/frozen tundra. He usually drops a vid either late at night or really early in the am, if anyone is interested in following. The issue with Mt. Katahdin is not the summit, The whole area is impassable, according to Baxter State Park...probably won't open until the first week in June. We are all waiting for the deep thaw and the SOBOs are going to be starting next month. Good luck SOBOs!

Well shoot I'll be following him, I like his attitude too. Hope my start date doesnt get burned cause of the weather, I'll be at KSG starting June 1st. Plan on trying to summit the 2nd!

[peakbagger]

Plenty of indications that anything above 3000 feet is definitely going to be rotten snow and nasty going. With the warm weather this weekend I expect the snow pack is going to be posthole city. There were multiple wind events this winter so plenty of blowdown. North facing softwood slopes are going to hold onto the snow longer than south facing slopes. There are lots of puds along that stretch.

Bring plenty of food and have a backup plan. Hike real early in the AM and plan on half the mileage. Snowshoes can help but it beats them up in mixed conditions. Lot to be said for doing a section south of the whites. I expect the Garfield to Twin stretch is going to be deep and nasty.

[peakbagger]

IMHO, the LT has far fewer hands maintaining it than the AT through the whites. The approach in the Whites has been there is no choice but to harden the trail by effectively paving it with stones. Its a lot more difficult to deal with the lowlands along the LT (especially in south VT near Stratton Pond). Those who head north into the Mahoosucs and Maine quickly learn that the hardening approach pretty well stops at the end of Centennial trail. From there north there are some impressive sections of hardening but they are a minority.

[somers515]

Thank you everyone! The Craig Mains aka "Hawk" videos in particular have given me a real clear picture of the conditions. He attempted the section with snow shoes yesterday and was STILL post-holing even with snow shoes on and he turned back. He declared the section "impassable" and sounds like that is currently the case.

Anyone willing to take a guess in how many days/weeks before the trail in this section is in a more reasonable state?

[LoneStranger]

Thank you everyone! The Craig Mains aka "Hawk" videos in particular have given me a real clear picture of the conditions. He attempted the section with snow shoes yesterday and was STILL post-holing even with snow shoes on and he turned back. He declared the section "impassable" and sounds like that is currently the case.

Anyone willing to take a guess in how many days/weeks before the trail in this section is in a more reasonable state?

I thought seeing that might be helpful

North facing slopes will likely have snow well into June. As Pb mentioned, we need warm nights or some warm rain to break it down any sooner. Snow was really deep this year. Anything above 3k you were pushing through tree limbs that are usually well over head. Great fun then, but it is making for a really long rotten snow season before we can even get started on the mud. I'm headed up to check on my Cohos section this weekend and not sure if I should bring the clippers or my snowshoes.

[Thrifty Endurance]

Thank you everyone! The Craig Mains aka "Hawk" videos in particular have given me a real clear picture of the conditions. He attempted the section with snow shoes yesterday and was STILL post-holing even with snow shoes on and he turned back. He declared the section "impassable" and sounds like that is currently the case.

Anyone willing to take a guess in how many days/weeks before the trail in this section is in a more reasonable state?

Hawk is planning a Yo-Yo within his SOBO Yo-Yo. He is a "purist" so he will make the 16 miles he missed that was impassable. I did three treks of the Whites in winter. The problem with snow shoes is it can't support your weight if the snow is "soft." You will still be post-holing in snow shoes...which frankly, sucks! ATStrong

[peakbagger]

Its highly dependent on the weather pattern. We need sunny days and warm nights and they have been in short supply of late. Putting on my "guessing hat", two to three weeks, June 1st . You may still find some snow but it will be a nuisance. I was out last Wednesday and the hardwoods were fine up to 3000 feet on the south and north slopes but once I got on the ridgecrest with a band of dense softwoods it was 2 feet deep of packed rotten snow. I had my small climbing snowshoes and they really didn't help much. I expect if I had my high flotation shoes they would have been better but high flotation shoes are dangerous for climbing steep stuff and impractical to carry.

You are actually lucky, this stretch of trail is not heavily used in the winter, thus the monorail is not as compressed as it would be on popular routes (like Falling Waters or Wildcat ridge down into Carter Notch). What the video shows is just rotten snow, if the temps and sun angle is good it breaks down quicker. On a popular winter trail with softwood cover the monorail is basically wet ice and it can last longer. If the snow is just rotten, hordes of unequipped hikers can actual help a bit as their postholes actually speed the breakup of the rotten snow, a very rare occasion when anything good can be said of postholers. Note the other trap in spring is that if it was cold night the snow may hold you up in the AM and then break down in the afternoon. I have been caught that way in the spring, bareboot to the summit way out in the woods and then end up postholing with snowshoes in the afternoon and taking a couple of hours to do the last mile.

I expect more than a few hiking folks are going to get a big surprise on Victoria Day (for the Canadians that flock south) on the 20th and Memorial day the week after. The spring ravine skiers on the other hand love it. I expect a few bikini ski runs from Tuckerman's will pop up on social media

[Puddlefish]

I last hit a trail in the NH Upper Valley two weeks ago. It's mud season here. The last time I was out, I wore micro-spikes and stayed on the ice monorail, but even that was sporadic. I met quite a few people out enjoying the trail on a warmish spring day. Unfortunately, they had no spikes, so they just widened the trail, leaving two to six inch mud holes along the edge of the trail. My local trails are all privately owned, I can't help but think the landowners who allowed a 30" trail might be a bit dismayed when they see multiple trails through sections of their land. The sad thing is, the new trails will be just as muddy as the original trail with just a bit more use, so there will just be double the erosion because of a few impatient/thoughtless hikers.

Moosilauke-Kinsman are further north, with higher elevations, they'll be seeing the same muddy conditions soon. I'm told the trails in southern NH are already drying out, but it's been annoying weather with light rain every other day for the past few weeks.

The leaves are coming in, try a nice road walk, and it won't be horrible.

[peakbagger]

Plenty of nice dry thawed out trails in the whites, just stay below 3 K and out of deep dark areas. I expect the Belknaps, Cardigan and the Ossipees are in good shape. The Shelburne Trail Club has a nice system of trails with great views and the RMC trails on the south face of the Crescent Range also are a nice option. Unfortunately most folks want the 4K hikes and ridgelines between them.

[peakbagger]

I see on Craig Mains (Hawk) video, that they made it to Galehead and decide to bail after rotten conditions once they dropped down off treeline north of Lafayette.

The interesting strategy is he and his partner are heading north on the Long Trail as an alternative. This is interesting choice as the LT probably has the same snow conditions.

[LoneStranger]

I see on Craig Mains (Hawk) video, that they made it to Galehead and decide to bail after rotten conditions once they dropped down off treeline north of Lafayette.

The interesting strategy is he and his partner are heading north on the Long Trail as an alternative. This is interesting choice as the LT probably has the same snow conditions.

Less snow due to less high peaks, but the downside is the mud when there is no snow. Mud season hiking is ugly anywhere in New England, but the Whites and S Maine would at least be rockier.

[rubyvermonter]

If you are unable to view the message below, click here to view this message on our website. Are you ready for hiking season? Mud season is over! Or is it? While the Friday of Memorial Day weekend typically begins Vermont's hiking season, we have had quite a lot of snow this winter that has prolonged mud season. We are almost done with May, but the snow continues to melt and it just keeps raining. Yes, there is still snow in the mountains right now. And plenty of it! In the first week of May, the snow stake on Mount Mansfield was showing 69" of snow, which is typical for the first week of March! There was still 42" of snow there three days ago. Killington Resort will be open for skiing this weekend and a couple of skiers still connected the snow patches at Mad River Glen this week. Over in the Adirondacks, ADK is asking folks to stay below 2500' until mid-June, and there are similar conditions in the Green Mountains. In addition to the snow, there are tons of blowdowns from fall and winter storms that have not yet been cleared. Our trail adopters and section volunteers were delayed in getting out to clean up their trails this spring due to the late snow and mud. Some of them have said the blowdowns they're seeing are worse than the damage from Hurricane Irene in 2011! Recent reports from trail volunteers show that: Mount Mansfield: There is deep snow starting halfway up the Haselton Trail, enough that snowshoes were needed (May 17). A third of the Hellbrook Trail is still covered by snow (May 22). In fact, there is so much snow on Mansfield, Stowe is pushing back opening the auto toll road until June 1st. Camel's Hump: On the east side of Camel’s Hump, snow on the Monroe Trail starts at the Alpine Junction. On the west side, it’s patchy on the Burrows Trail. 3' of snow is still underfoot on the Long Trail above the Hut Clearing (May 17). Mounts Abraham and Ellen: The Long Trail between Abe and Lincoln Peak still has a fair amount of snow and big mud holes, and still snow up to Ellen (May 21). Bolton area trails: Still lots of snow throughout (May 18). Mount Tabor area trails: Lots of blowdowns on the Green Mountain Trail (May 18). North of Smugglers' Notch: Lots of snow on the Long Trail from Route 108 to Sterling Pond, and snow on the Sterling Pond Trail (May 15). Southern Long Trail: Snow appears to be gone from the Glastenbury and Stratton areas. Northeast Kingdom: Still snow on Middle Mountain and Bald Mountain, particularly on the Mad Brook Trail. Pisgah, Hor, Bluff, Moose, and Wheeler Mountains are snow-free but muddy (May 18). Lower elevations: Still wet. What does this mean for hiking? Higher elevations currently still have snow so hikers should consider staying below 3500’ for another week or two. Lower elevations may still have muddy conditions, so if you can't turn around, please be prepared to walk through puddles and mud to avoid damaging the surrounding vegetation and widening the trail. We share updates on our Trail Updates page and in our Facebook Group so you can always check those before heading out on the trail. To help plan your next hike, you can pick up a GMC waterproof map, the Day Hiker’s Guide to Vermont, or the classic Long Trail Guide. New this year, GMC is now offering digital maps of popular trails in Vermont through the Avenza Maps app, available in the App Store and Google Play. Or give us a visit/call/email at the GMC Visitor Center and we can help you choose an appropriate hike for the conditions and your skill level. We are open 7 days a week from 9:00am to 5:00pm to answer any questions you may have about hiking on the Long Trail and its side trails, the Appalachian Trail in Vermont, and trails in the Northeast Kingdom. Hiking Safety Tips Here are a few tips for early season hikers: Plan ahead and let someone know where you will be hiking and when you are expected to return. Carry a map and know which trailhead you need to return to. Bring a warm extra layer as mountain tops are chilly year-round and Vermont’s weather can quickly change. Be prepared for winter conditions if you are hiking above 3500’ in the near future. Water levels in streams and rivers may be higher than normal this time of year so use caution when crossing. Stay hydrated and bring food for long hikes. Bring rain gear; even an emergency poncho or garbage bag will help in a pinch. Carry out what you carry in and help protect Vermont’s special places. Other ways to prepare yourself for this hiking season are to take a GMC workshop. We have upcoming offerings including Backpacking 201, Wilderness First Aid, and Women's Intro to Backpacking. You can also join our 14 regional Sections for a group outing to try a new trail and meet like-minded hikers. We can't wait to see you out on the trail this year! Keep an eye out for GMC's backcountry caretakers and Long Trail Patrol as they educate hikers in high-use areas and work on improving the trail. And don't worry, soon it will be summer and the trail will look like this: Unsubscribe | Forward to a Friend | Visit our web site Green Mountain Club. © 2018 All rights reserved. Green Mountain Club ~ 4711 Waterbury-Stowe Rd. Waterbury Center, VT 05677

[Thrifty Endurance]

Hi Rubyvermonter, looks like Camel's Hump is looking good for a trek, albeit some snow patches. Several hikers already made the successful summit. Hikers post holing at Mount Mansfield last week...but next week might be different.