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  1. #41
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Another update https://www.wjhl.com/local/new-detai...ays/1947581693

    Whiteblaze.net is posted off location with the men and women of cyber-hiking. All hikers are guilty until proven innocent in a court of public opinion. [Cue music - Bad boys, bad boys...]
    Last edited by 4eyedbuzzard; 04-23-2019 at 17:25.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockDoc View Post
    Armed with a guitar and playing highly dangerous songs...
    Woody Guthrie's guitar was dangerous.
    "It goes to show you never can tell." - Charles Edward Anderson Berry

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeGoldRush View Post
    Just show your, “I’m wealthy” card wherever you go. See what that gets ya. Lol.
    Cops know fairly quickly, profiling is a very obvious reality in the USA; clothes, pack, demeanor, etc.; this guy was a sitting duck, I hope he gets the help he needs instead of imprisonment which will do nothing for him except perhaps a reality check. I find it strange that the two standards of justice based on ability to get competent legal counsel would be called into question. https://www.researchgate.net/blog/po...h-and-the-poor
    Last edited by greenmtnboy; 04-23-2019 at 18:31.


  4. #44
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenmtnboy View Post
    Cops know fairly quickly, profiling is a very obvious reality in the USA; clothes, pack, demeanor, etc.; this guy was a sitting duck, I hope he gets the help he needs instead of imprisonment which will do nothing for him except perhaps a reality check. I find it strange that the two standards of justice based on ability to get competent legal counsel would be called into question.
    EVERYBODY - not just cops - "profiles". We all make assumptions about other people based upon a variety of stimulus. Someone's physical appearance is the first thing we notice before we get to any other factors. You see an unkempt man with a big Bowie knife and a pit mix dog in tow and your alert level rises. As it should. The latest report https://www.wjhl.com/local/new-detai...ays/1947581693 is that he is suspected of assault on a juvenile as well. But he's just a poor sitting duck? I also hope he gets help. But if he assaulted people, I hope he gets punished as well. And I don't really give a rats @$$ about his finances.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    EVERYBODY - not just cops - "profiles". We all make assumptions about other people based upon a variety of stimulus. Someone's physical appearance is the first thing we notice before we get to any other factors. You see an unkempt man with a big Bowie knife and a pit mix dog in tow and your alert level rises. As it should. The latest report https://www.wjhl.com/local/new-detai...ays/1947581693 is that he is suspected of assault on a juvenile as well. But he's just a poor sitting duck? I also hope he gets help. But if he assaulted people, I hope he gets punished as well. And I don't really give a rats @$$ about his finances.
    Reporter Kristen Gallant met two Appalachian Trail hikers who said that they ran into the hiker who goes by “Sovereign” four separate times on the trail. The two hikers from Massachusetts met him for the first time in Hot Springs, NC on April 17th. They say, the man we now know as James Jordon, ran into them on the trail, at different hostels, and at shelters. Each time they saw him, his personality "got worse." The hikers saying that sometimes he would hiss like a cat at people, and that he was unprepared in the bad weather by not having rain or snow gear. They say his dog, who he called Falisha, was wearing a service dog vest and collar. The female hiker that spoke with News Channel 11 said she once went to get water down a hill and away from other campers when he followed her. Making her feel uncomfortable, she picked up a rock and headed back to the other campers. She said, "it was clear he was violent." Both hikers said, at the time they saw Jordon, he did have a guitar and a knife. The male hiker saying that he's, “So happy he’s off the trail.”

    Ok, sounds like a real menace. The earlier report seemed confused about what danger he posed. I hope they do a thorough investigation.


  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenmtnboy View Post
    Reporter Kristen Gallant met two Appalachian Trail hikers who said that they ran into the hiker who goes by “Sovereign” four separate times on the trail. The two hikers from Massachusetts met him for the first time in Hot Springs, NC on April 17th. They say, the man we now know as James Jordon, ran into them on the trail, at different hostels, and at shelters. Each time they saw him, his personality "got worse." The hikers saying that sometimes he would hiss like a cat at people, and that he was unprepared in the bad weather by not having rain or snow gear. They say his dog, who he called Falisha, was wearing a service dog vest and collar. The female hiker that spoke with News Channel 11 said she once went to get water down a hill and away from other campers when he followed her. Making her feel uncomfortable, she picked up a rock and headed back to the other campers. She said, "it was clear he was violent." Both hikers said, at the time they saw Jordon, he did have a guitar and a knife. The male hiker saying that he's, “So happy he’s off the trail.”

    Ok, sounds like a real menace. The earlier report seemed confused about what danger he posed. I hope they do a thorough investigation.
    It’s such a difficult situation and it’s hard to know the right thing to do. I had an encounter on the trail with a mentally ill man whose family was searching for him. He scared the crap out of me...the things he said. Yet, he didn’t attempt anything overt and I felt that he had as much right as myself to be out hiking. In the end, I did nothing...said nothing. I don’t know if that was the right thing to do.

    When solo women (and men) are out in the woods, sometimes we have to make snap judgments. Ultimately, it boils down to being safe and if it offends someone, well *uc* them.

  7. #47
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traffic Jam View Post
    It’s such a difficult situation and it’s hard to know the right thing to do. I had an encounter on the trail with a mentally ill man whose family was searching for him. He scared the crap out of me...the things he said. Yet, he didn’t attempt anything overt and I felt that he had as much right as myself to be out hiking. In the end, I did nothing...said nothing. I don’t know if that was the right thing to do.

    When solo women (and men) are out in the woods, sometimes we have to make snap judgments. Ultimately, it boils down to being safe and if it offends someone, well *uc* them.

    Agreed.

    I have long thought that a thru hiker’s “ownership” of the Trail, together with heightened open mindedness towards others, contributes to their aaccepting those rare uncomfortable/scary situations that they would NEVER tolerate in ANY OTHER context.

    I will bet many others have similar stories.

    Only thing I would add is that in most cases the worst violence on the Trail has not been perpetrated against solo hikers—. but rather couples. So they need to trust their gut when decisding on whether to distance themselves from an uncomfortable situation every bit as much, IMO.

  8. #48
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeGoldRush View Post
    Just show your, “I’m wealthy” card wherever you go. See what that gets ya. Lol.
    Not sure if it is a rich/poor thing but I know I my answer would be more thoughtful than most people’s should a law enforcement officer ever ask if “I minded he take a look inside” my backpack, tent or trunk.

    I am amazed how police officers can get consent from those who would be well served to withhold it — like if you have some weed or a Crocodile Dundee knife inside.

  9. #49
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    An interview with some hikers who met the person in question.

    https://www.facebook.com/thehikeryea...6980278959984/
    If not NOW, then WHEN?

    ME>GA 2006
    http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=3277

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  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    Not sure if it is a rich/poor thing but I know I my answer would be more thoughtful than most people’s should a law enforcement officer ever ask if “I minded he take a look inside” my backpack, tent or trunk.

    I am amazed how police officers can get consent from those who would be well served to withhold it — like if you have some weed or a Crocodile Dundee knife inside.
    If questioned / investigated by police about anything, whether you think you did something wrong or not, your answers should be " not without a warrant. i dont remember. I need to speak to an attorney". Many people in jail because they ratted themselves out.

  11. #51

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    I agree you never testify against yourself, we have enough detractors usually anyway; my loving my neighbor as myself or trying to do so presupposes I show myself all proper respect and take care of my own health. When asked impertinent questions even Jesus remained mum or asked what others had said about him.

    Once you are in jail with charges they will look to try to get you to plead to something.


  12. #52

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    And you tell your minor children, if presented with the scenario, to not say anything to Officers other than, "Call my parents".
    That should be the answer to any and all questions.

  13. #53
    Registered User somers515's Avatar
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    So let's say a criminal kills someone and then is chased by the police. The criminal runs thru your backyard and hides in the woods behind your yard. You and your kids watch this happen. The police officer shows up and asks which way did he go. Are you going to say "not without a warrant, I don't remember, I need to speak to an attorney" or hope that your kids just state "call my parents"? If not then I suggest staying away from absolute statements on how to deal with the police.

    Police officers have a difficult job and generally speaking try to do the right thing and keep us all safe.
    LT End-to-Ender 2017; AT from Lehigh Gap to Hudson River; NH 31/48
    "Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in." - Isaac Asimov

  14. #54

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    silly question
    you are taking it waay out of context
    if a killer is in you yard, you are not a potential suspect/person of interest/harassee

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by somers515 View Post
    So let's say a criminal kills someone and then is chased by the police. The criminal runs thru your backyard and hides in the woods behind your yard. You and your kids watch this happen. The police officer shows up and asks which way did he go. Are you going to say "not without a warrant, I don't remember, I need to speak to an attorney" or hope that your kids just state "call my parents"? If not then I suggest staying away from absolute statements on how to deal with the police.

    Police officers have a difficult job and generally speaking try to do the right thing and keep us all safe.
    If they are asking about the criminal ..ok thats not you
    But..once in your yard anything seen can be used to open an investigation on you. From a bicyle without a license, to hazardous materials like used motor oil/filter / improperly disposed of.

    My stepson was charged with weapons charges for holding automatic weapons for a military friend that went on vacation.and didnt want to leave them unnatended.....when police happened to see something that interetested them when he answered knock on door about a disturbance nearby apartment. It was eventually dropped...but a big hassle that led to his apartment being searched and laptop seized.

    If police trying to do right thing, and doing it was same thing....there would be no need for courts and lawyers.

  16. #56
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    Yikes. As usual, this thread has drifted to a profound topic.

    I find myself stuck between the way my folks raised me (nothing to hide) and maintaining personal rights. If I ever encountered law enforcement on trail I would have no problem with them verifying that all that I carry is legal. HOWEVER, life experience has conditioned me to resist any form of search/siezure.

    I respect that LEO'S jobs are difficult, especially in the backcountry, but I think I would refuse a personal search based on tips from other hikers up the trail. Tough call.

    Then again....I don't hike with long blades and drug paraphernalia....

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    If they are asking about the criminal ..ok thats not you


    My stepson was charged with weapons charges for holding automatic weapons for a military friend that went on vacation.and didnt want to leave them unnatended.....when police happened to see something that interetested them when he answered knock on door about a disturbance nearby apartment. It was eventually dropped...but a big hassle that led to his apartment being searched and laptop seized.

    .
    Please explain why a military person has automatic weapons at home, and no where on base to store them while
    out of town.
    "It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Bill View Post
    Please explain why a military person has automatic weapons at home, and no where on base to store them while
    out of town.
    No let's not, it's not particularly related to hiking.

    Please keep posts to the circumstances surrounding the hiker involved.

    Thanks.
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  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alligator View Post
    No let's not, it's not particularly related to hiking.

    Please keep posts to the circumstances surrounding the hiker involved.

    Thanks.
    Good idea. Sorry.
    "It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Durwood View Post
    Yikes. As usual, this thread has drifted to a profound topic.

    I find myself stuck between the way my folks raised me (nothing to hide) and maintaining personal rights. If I ever encountered law enforcement on trail I would have no problem with them verifying that all that I carry is legal. HOWEVER, life experience has conditioned me to resist any form of search/siezure.

    I respect that LEO'S jobs are difficult, especially in the backcountry, but I think I would refuse a personal search based on tips from other hikers up the trail. Tough call.

    Then again....I don't hike with long blades and drug paraphernalia....
    The call is certainly yours to make, much like making a Constitutional statement to TSA searches once the scanning station is reached with a line of a few hundred people in back of you. It may be wiser not to. There can be some realities to consider.

    If there has been a complaint made about you (or someone closely resembling you), especially if a weapon is said to be involved, declining a search that would clear up the issue and depending on the statements made by the complainant can cause you to be detained as a warrant is applied for.

    From that point the local LE system protocols take over. If communication is difficult in the back country the complaint LE is acting on may be enough to take you or your gear into custody. At that point you may be transported you to a controlled environment like a police or ranger station for a statement and search warrant application. That application may take a few hours or days, depending what day of the week it is and what business hours local magistrates keep. The warrant application may be turned down, however if LEO makes a decent argument for one, it will likely be granted given it will either be fully exculpatory or provide basis for prosecution.

    If illegal things are found at that point the climate for bargaining away minor charges can be more difficult than it would have been back on the trail. If on the other hand nothing is found, you will be told "you are free to go" and perhaps offered a ride back to the trailhead, though LE is not obliged to do that and some officers may feel had you simply shown the pack hours/days ago, their time and yours would not have been wasted.

    If there's nothing to hide, sometimes it may make sense to bend a little and allow LE to take a look in the pack to alleviate their concern so everyone may be on their way.
    Last edited by Traveler; 04-25-2019 at 07:45.

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