Smokey mountains questions

[sittinguy]

WOW,, I never thought I would get everyone so defensive. And its not just about the mice. I would bet $100 that at the GSM shelters there are spots where tents have been set up many times, just like other shelters. Thats all I was originally asking.
I guess it would be the people, the snoring,farting,late comers,talking, and yes the mice scratching all night. I don't get any sleep.
Rain Man wants to make me out like a criminal. I'm worried he might want to measure my cat hole to make sure its a full 6 inches. OH 5.5 only! Criminal! Law Breaker!
Seem like alot agree with me, and I think there is a difference in bending rules and breaking them.

[Dogwood]

,,, I would bet $100 that at the GSM shelters there are spots where tents have been set up many times, just like other shelters.
I guess it would be the people, the snoring,farting,late comers,talking, and yes the mice scratching all night. I don't get any sleep.

That's a bet with a winning ticket.

Again, it's the human animal congregating that is the root cause of many issues.

Don't beat up on Rainman. he means well. He's heard from so many slim shady posters on WB and in his professional life willing to scam and justify it.

[4eyedbuzzard]

If going NOBO, in the first 200 miles of your "epic hike" you are forced to register, pay and plan your trip through the park. While in the park you're required to abide by all rules and laws (understandably). For some this is an unwelcome governance that is not expected. Some set out seeking independence and a break from the societal beat down. It's a bit counterintuitive early in that big hike.

I don't suggest shunning the rules. I'm a former Marine, fully aware of the importance of structure. As I prepped for my thru, all starry eyed and dreamy, I didn't envision a rigid set of rules as I walked the path of previous thru-hikers.

I found the restrictions and overuse of the AT in the park to be very off-putting. I just love this topic because the only burr under my saddle from my hike was my first week of March in the GSMNP. It was awful. I'm sure others have had wonderful experiences.

I prefer to be free when I do an LD hike. Unfortunately, I think that means avoiding the popular "ABC" trails. I'll be personally accountable on some lesser used trails.

Realistically though, it's all a matter of degree, not absolutes. Freedom only exists between one's ears or in one's grave. There are at minimum some rules regarding use on pretty much every trail, as they are routed over public lands and administered by some agency of Federal, State, or local government that is responsible for protecting and preserving those resources. And without that government involvement, there wouldn't be trails nor trail issues to complain about in the first place. The more people there are, the more rules there are. The more sensitive environmentally a place is, the more rules there are to keep people from ______ it up. It's more just a problem of too many people (some might say the "wrong people") in the same place at the same time. The nicest, most accessible, and desired places attract tourists, which is ultimately what all us hikers really are. Maybe hiking has become too popular for its own good? Thank Fletcher, Garvey, Wingfoot, Bryson, et al, - and even good ol' Whiteblaze.net. As usual, we are our own worst enemy.

[4eyedbuzzard]

WOW,, I never thought I would get everyone so defensive. And its not just about the mice. I would bet $100 that at the GSM shelters there are spots where tents have been set up many times, just like other shelters. Thats all I was originally asking.
I guess it would be the people, the snoring,farting,late comers,talking, and yes the mice scratching all night. I don't get any sleep.
Rain Man wants to make me out like a criminal. I'm worried he might want to measure my cat hole to make sure its a full 6 inches. OH 5.5 only! Criminal! Law Breaker!
Seem like alot agree with me, and I think there is a difference in bending rules and breaking them.

Yes, tents do get put up at shelters - obviously by thru-hikers who don't have reserved shelter space. But unlike most areas of the AT, even if there are no Park Rangers present, there are also several ridgerunners covering the AT in GSMNP and they often show up at shelters. They will politely request that you comply with the rules and terms of your reservation. Might you be able to quietly trade off with a thru-hiker who would rather stay in your spot in the shelter than his/her tent? Maybe, maybe not. Depends. But if the shelter isn't full, and someone comes by and checks, you'll have a hard time explaining why you have a tent pitched.

[tdoczi]

I'm worried he might want to measure my cat hole to make sure its a full 6 inches.

lol ok gotta give credit where it's due. that was pretty darn funny.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Everybody knows that after a zero day with a big dinner and breakfast, even a full 6 inch hole can be lacking in capacity.

[Dogwood]

Realistically though, it's all a matter of degree, not absolutes. Freedom only exists between one's ears or in one's grave. There are at minimum some rules regarding use on pretty much every trail, as they are routed over public lands and administered by some agency of Federal, State, or local government that is responsible for protecting and preserving those resources. And without that government involvement, there wouldn't be trails nor trail issues to complain about in the first place. The more people there are, the more rules there are. The more sensitive environmentally a place is, the more rules there are to keep people from ______ it up. It's more just a problem of too many people (some might say the "wrong people") in the same place at the same time. The nicest, most accessible, and desired places attract tourists, which is ultimately what all us hikers really are. Maybe hiking has become too popular for its own good? Thank Fletcher, Garvey, Wingfoot, Bryson, et al, - and even good ol' Whiteblaze.net. As usual, we are our own worst enemy.

We can smack ya upside the head if you'd like.

[Dogwood]

Originally Posted by sittinguy
I'm worried he might want to measure my cat hole to make sure its a full 6 inches.



lol ok gotta give credit where it's due. that was pretty darn funny.

Laugh but I've seen anal arse folks that do exactly that. I've seen them whip out a ruler and measure cat hole depth. I've seen authorities whip out a tape measures and measure how far someone was sleeping from water, fire road, historical site, or the trail. There are rules about that in some places. I've seen people get tossed in S NP because they didn't abide by backcountry camping distance regs: https://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/campbc_regs.htm

• 
  
  • 
    
    • 
      
      • 
        
        

[4eyedbuzzard]

We can smack ya upside the head if you'd like.

Not needed, I get plenty already - I have a job and a wife.

[HooKooDooKu]

...I think there is a difference in bending rules and breaking them.

Depends upon your definition of bending...

If you are adhering to the spirit of the rules, then sure. For example, if you want to section hike the AT in GSMNP and tent at a shelter, get your shelter reservations during the thru-hiker bubble. IF the shelter is beyond capacity and thru hikers must tent, offer to swap places with one of the AT thru hikers. After all, what does it mater who's in the shelter v. who's in a tent.

But if you're wanting to setup a tent at a shelter in the middle of August when there's no thru hikers around and attempt to justify it because tents were allowed earlier in the year when the thru hikers were around.... NO! That would be a selfish way of trying to justify why you should be allowed to break the rules.

[tdoczi]

Originally Posted by sittinguy
I'm worried he might want to measure my cat hole to make sure its a full 6 inches.



lol ok gotta give credit where it's due. that was pretty darn funny.

Laugh but I've seen anal arse folks that do exactly that. I've seen them whip out a ruler and measure cat hole depth. I've seen authorities whip out a tape measures and measure how far someone was sleeping from water, fire road, historical site, or the trail. There are rules about that in some places. I've seen people get tossed in S NP because they didn't abide by backcountry camping distance regs: https://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/campbc_regs.htm

• 
  
  • 
    

so.... you're saying you and Rain Man are hiking buddies?

[MuddyWaters]

WOW,, I never thought I would get everyone so defensive. And its not just about the mice. I would bet $100 that at the GSM shelters there are spots where tents have been set up many times, just like other shelters. Thats all I was originally asking.
I guess it would be the people, the snoring,farting,late comers,talking, and yes the mice scratching all night. I don't get any sleep.
Rain Man wants to make me out like a criminal. I'm worried he might want to measure my cat hole to make sure its a full 6 inches. OH 5.5 only! Criminal! Law Breaker!
Seem like alot agree with me, and I think there is a difference in bending rules and breaking them.

You might just want to skip the whites and bsp too

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Rain Man wants to make me out like a criminal. I'm worried he might want to measure my cat hole to make sure its a full 6 inches. OH 5.5 only! Criminal! Law Breaker!
Seem like alot agree with me, and I think there is a difference in bending rules and breaking them.

In Rain Man's defense, he wasn't trying to paint you as anything, but just warn you that you might be violating TOS. And he did apologize if he had misinterpreted your intention. Will you do the same?

[FreeGoldRush]

The 72 miles of the AT through the GSMNP can be day hiked if you can do a 32.6 mile day. The longest section is from Clingman's Dome to the parking area just north of Fontana Dam. The next longest section is Newfound Gap down to Davenport Gap. Do the approx. 8 miles between Clingman's Dome and Newfound Gap on a third day. Do the first two sections starting from the top and going down.

Take a headlamp, food, rain gear, fleece, cap, and gloves. Check the weather before leaving. Never carry more than a liter of water. Start before the sun comes up.

This won't be realistic for most or the experience they want to have. For others this will be workable.
It would hurt pretty good, but I think I could get it done.

[Dogwood]

Hey, Rainman seems like a bright conscientious fellow able to do his thing without imposing on others unnecessarily so I'd always welcome him in a discussion at the campfire...even if he does resemble villainous Egghead.

You Tdoczi are another loud mouth from NJ like myself so someone's SW socks are liable to go into the fire.

[tdoczi]

The 72 miles of the AT through the GSMNP can be day hiked if you can do a 32.6 mile day. The longest section is from Clingman's Dome to the parking area just north of Fontana Dam. The next longest section is Newfound Gap down to Davenport Gap. Do the approx. 8 miles between Clingman's Dome and Newfound Gap on a third day. Do the first two sections starting from the top and going down.

Take a headlamp, food, rain gear, fleece, cap, and gloves. Check the weather before leaving. Never carry more than a liter of water. Start before the sun comes up.

This won't be realistic for most or the experience they want to have. For others this will be workable.
It would hurt pretty good, but I think I could get it done.

people have broken it down further than that using side trails. it adds mileage but as others point out it also adds the advantage of seeing more than just the AT corridor.

the most ridiculously fast hiker i ever saw was someone who i believe (and others corroborated) was day hiking from NFG to davenport gap. he blew by me a couple miles south of tri corner carrying nothing but a fanny pack and his hiking polls, wearing almost no clothes. people who claimed to have spoken to him (not sure how cuh a thing would have even been possible) say he was planning on hiking back to NFG the next day.

[Dogwood]

The 72 miles of the AT through the GSMNP can be day hiked if you can do a 32.6 mile day. The longest section is from Clingman's Dome to the parking area just north of Fontana Dam. The next longest section is Newfound Gap down to Davenport Gap. Do the approx. 8 miles between Clingman's Dome and Newfound Gap on a third day. Do the first two sections starting from the top and going down.

Take a headlamp, food, rain gear, fleece, cap, and gloves. Check the weather before leaving. Never carry more than a liter of water. Start before the sun comes up.

This won't be realistic for most or the experience they want to have. For others this will be workable.
It would hurt pretty good, but I think I could get it done.

You wouldn't be the first to bang it out in two nights.

[Berserker]

There is certainly a lot of negativity in this thread. As has already been discussed by many, GSMNP has pretty strict and particular regulations that don't apply to the vast majority of the AT. With that in mind I'm gonna attempt to give a positive spin.

If you get reservations at the shelters you are technically guaranteed a spot in the shelter. So if the weather sucks or whatever else might be going on, you have a spot. In my one experience hiking through GSMNP I stayed at 5 shelters, and all were beyond capacity except for one. Everyone was well behaved and I got my guaranteed spot every night. This included one night when a line of extremely strong thunderstorms came through, that I later found out contained a tornado that touched down not to far off from where I was at. Obviously I was happy to have been in a shelter that night and not in my tent. So anyway, point being that you can look at this in a positive way and just think of the shelter experience as part of doing the AT when it comes to the GSMNP section.

One other thing I will add is that I have 4 words for anyone staying in a shelter, bunkhouse, White Mountain Hut or similar lodging. Those words are sleep mask & ear plugs. The sleep mask is good for keeping those headlamps out of your eyes when people are up in the middle of the night, and the ear plugs obviously cut way back on all the noise.

Oh yeah, and my disclaimer. I have about 143 miles of the AT left to do and before I did GSMNP I think I had stayed in maybe 3 - 5 shelters on the rest of the trail, and I didn't do GSMNP until I had most of the rest of the trail completed because of being forced to stay in shelters. So I get the point of view of those who like their personal space in their tents because I am one of them. I also hate mice...and surprisingly didn't see or hear any when I did GSMNP.

[TNhiker]

I also hate mice...and surprisingly didn't see or hear any when I did GSMNP

thats because you had your sleep mask on and ear plugs in....

[Berserker]

thats because you had your sleep mask on and ear plugs in....

Yeah, that could be because I'm sure they're there. However, I also look for fresh turds in the morning if I stay in a shelter, and didn't recall seeing any as I have the other few times I have stayed in a shelter...and even in my tent when I left the door open one time