Rainy and Cold Weather

[garlic08]

At Newfound Gap in the Smokies, my hiking partner and I, each carrying a base weight of under ten pounds, continued hiking comfortably in blizzard conditions, while van loads of traditionally-weighted shivering hikers were bailing out into Gatlinburg. As a bonus, we had Ice Water Spring shelter and the next day in the Smokies all to ourselves.

I always say, experience trumps what you carry, and that the amount of gear a person carries has very little impact on that person's comfort in adverse conditions.

Experience will tell you that the best thing to do in the morning is put on those cold wet clothes, knowing that they're only that cold for a few minutes, but you've saved your dry layer for the next night.

It will tell you under what conditions you can safely dry some clothing in your sleeping bag with you. You can even dry some under your sleeping pad. Just a dry pair of socks, gloves, and a hat is a wonderful thing some mornings.

It will tell you how to keep your shoes (or water bottle) from freezing overnight.

It will tell you not to wear your puffy down layer under your rain jacket while climbing.

It will tell you to take advantage of a ten-minute sun break to dry things out, even a little.

And it will tell you when to give up, find shelter, make a fire, bail out, etc.

"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment."

[ldsailor]

My post really wasn't shooting for embrace the suck sort of replies. It was aimed to get specific gear choices that folks have used.

Besides hiking, I have done a lot of blue water sailing. My boat foul weather gear keeps me warm and dry. The problem is - IT'S HEAVY! I thought about packing it for my first LASH and quickly set it aside for rain gear, which weighed in the ounces not pounds (Columbia Omni-Tech). Thus cold, wet, shivering and a couple of bouts of near hypothermia tend to be the norm. I stopped packing rain pants - worthless.

[Tipi Walter]

It was crowded, noisy, and one guy kept us all awake. There were about 18 of us packed in with another 18 expected to arrive with reservations that night.

Ranger Chloe arrived and she just took charge like a boss (in a good way.)

This sounds much worse than hiking all day in a butt cold rain and getting hypothermia. It sounds like recess at an elementary school and the teacher has to come out to restore order.

[MuddyWaters]

This sounds much worse than hiking all day in a butt cold rain and getting hypothermia. It sounds like recess at an elementary school and the teacher has to come out to restore order.

Obviously, gsmnp recognizes thru experience, the tendency of AT thru hikers to not want to walk in cold and wet.

Problem is....its not an option . You are required to keep moving.


Ive hiked in cold rain where couldnt stay warm. Couldnt generate heat. Shivering while hiking as fast as can. you can feel the cold rain your shoulders sap heat out of you, numb hands, and icy water runs down inside of jacket.

Staying just one step ahead of the cold monster, and knowing when to stop and get sheltered before too late is key. You get colder fast once stop walking. Hands may be nonfunctional by time get shelter up.

More than one person has discovered hard way cold fingers cant work lighters, and cold lighters dont work anyway.

[Tipi Walter]

Ive hiked in cold rain where couldnt stay warm. Couldnt generate heat. Shivering while hiking as fast as can. you can feel the cold rain your shoulders sap heat out of you, numb hands, and icy water runs down inside of jacket.

Staying just one step ahead of the cold monster, and knowing when to stop and get sheltered before too late is key. You get colder fast once stop walking. Hands may be nonfunctional by time get shelter up.

More than one person has discovered hard way cold fingers cant work lighters, and cold lighters dont work anyway.

Despite what Garlic08 says, this has been my experience too. Garlic08 says---

I always say, experience trumps what you carry, and that the amount of gear a person carries has very little impact on that person's comfort in adverse conditions.
I guess we are lacking in experience---me and MuddyWaters---and others---cuz we sure at times shiver and get cold and get wet and get numb hands and we are "staying just one step ahead of the cold monster."

But Garlic08 does admit---

And it will tell you when to give up, find shelter, make a fire, bail out, etc.

[Puddlefish]

This sounds much worse than hiking all day in a butt cold rain and getting hypothermia. It sounds like recess at an elementary school and the teacher has to come out to restore order.

Yeah, pretty much, as I'm not a fan of shelters. At least she showed up early in the morning, which gave people plenty of time to get elsewhere. I figure 70% of the hikers were younger and in better shape than me, it wasn't like she booted them into dangerous conditions. It was a a nice warm snow, with the big fluffy flakes falling straight down. Practically balmy once the temp rose above freezing. I thought she was great, I've no idea what the folks who wanted to stay thought about her.

[Deadeye]

My post really wasn't shooting for embrace the suck sort of replies. It was aimed to get specific gear choices that folks have used.

A bigger umbrella. Sounds crazy, but your breathable rain gear works a lot better if you keep most of the rain off it.

[Dogwood]

Umbrella question. Skurka suggests using an umbrella in warm/hot temps b/c of ventilation. How does a small trail umbrella keep your upper torso even remotely dry if it's a wind-whipped rain?

https://www.barefootjake.com/2014/04...to-summit.html




They are standing in the trail.

[CalebJ]

That looks like my hike in PA last spring. Spent all day walking in standing water on the trail in mid 50's and pouring rain. I was definitely underdressed for the occasion.

[Dogwood]

It is NOT the cold rain that produces low grade hypothermia. It is the hiker that allows it to happen. Cold rain is just another set of conditions to address.


Addressing wet and cold or butt arse cold is also about awarenesses, experiences, and skill sets...beyond gear. The idea that gear, more gear, the "right" gear, is needed to solve all issues is a fallacy!


Barefoot Jake is a good example of one who hikes on the Olympic Peninsula basically yr round in sun, cold rain, sometimes sleet, and snow. Andrew is another one with an UL style on trips across AK or Sea to Sea Route through winter and cold wet conditions. It's not just about more gear or heavier gear. They are both ULers melding their awarenesses, experiences, and skill sets with gear. It's not just about more gear or heavier gear.


We more often have to soberly separate the gear from the user arriving at conclusions.

[lonehiker]

Some days just suck.

[Tipi Walter]

Gear is gear---you either have it or don't. For those coming into camp shivering and soaked in a 35F rainstorm with wooden hands it's vital you have enough gear to stay alive---like a tent/shelter and warm clothing after you strip off the wet. There's a general tendency to discount "Gear" as if it's a dirty word---or anyone relying on "gear" is a rank newbie or just plain inexperienced.

Barefoot Jake takes an umbrella---that's a piece of gear. Skurka when he did his Arctic quest in 2010 had a big gear list---See it here---

https://26ebru3fogag2ce2bw4a6246-wpe...aska-yukon.pdf

Study that for a while. His shelter was a MLD Solomid tent. He brought a Golite 0F bag. And an Alpacka packraft. Oh and a Golite Pinnacle pack.

Years ago I read thru this report and most remember him having to pull a 14 or 17 day section without food resupply and guess what? His pack approached almost 60 lbs for that section.

[Dogwood]

It's not just gear that is vital to staying alive. All that material stuff/GEAR means less to nothing if the owner doesn't know how to use it AND having experiences, awarenesses, and skills BEYOND the gear.

Sure BFJ and Andrew have detailed gear lists. That's the way they are - thinking, adjusting, adapting, always evolving, ACCURATE in their kit wts and pre and post hike analysis! Neither is in the habit of coming into "camp" shivering and soaked in 35* rains terms with wooden hands!


It may be easier Tipi to recognize the vital importance of experiences, awarenesses, and skill sets as an UL or more minimalist all season hiker.

[Dogwood]

I do indeed believe Newbs rely more on gear and trail infrastructure than their generally more limited awarenesses, experiences, and skill sets. Absolutely!

[Hosh]

[QUOTE=Tipi

Years ago I read thru this report and most remember him having to pull a 14 or 17 day section without food resupply and guess what? His pack approached almost 60 lbs for that section.[/QUOTE]

And guess what, he was averaging 20+ miles far, far away from any roads rather than “squatting” 2 miles from the nearest road averaging 2 miles per day

[Tipi Walter]

Sure BFJ and Andrew have detailed gear lists. Neither is in the habit of coming into "camp" shivering and soaked in 35* rains terms with wooden hands!

This statement is incredible. And why do you quote "camp" as if "coming into camp" is problematic or perhaps not something they ever do?? Why put quotes around the word?

And what makes this statement incredible is there's no real proof that either of these guys never came into "camp" shivering and soaked with wooden hands. I'd like to see some indication that these backpackers never got soaked in a 35F rain and never shivered.

[Tipi Walter]

And guess what, he was averaging 20+ miles far, far away from any roads rather than “squatting” 2 miles from the nearest road averaging 2 miles per day

So all backpackers should be endurance athletes with high mile days?

[CalebJ]

Certainly not, but it does change the conversation and individual requirements/perspectives/experience on the discussion at hand.

[Tipi Walter]

Each year around this time I watch AT thru hike videos in which folks are flat out miserable because they are wet and cold after hiking through hours of rain. This got me wondering whether the fact that lots of people are trying carry less weight meant they don't have the "perfect" equipment for the conditions, or no matter what stuff they had, they'd still be cold and miserable.

So is there a way to hike on the AT in the colder months in hours of rain and be "fine" with the weather because you had the right gear choices? Would you need to carry 5lbs more? Multiple rain jackets....tops...etc?

Just curious.

Certainly not, but it does change the conversation and individual requirements/perspectives/experience on the discussion at hand.

The OP started with a simple question---as above.

To Recap---
** Embrace the suck.
** Hunker in camp if desired.
** Bail into town.
** Putting cold wet clothing on in the morning.
** Cold rain at 35F becomes 20F by morning (frozen zippers etc)
** Carry rain jacket and ran pants for warmth while moving.
** Gear is useful---along with experience.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Each year around this time I watch AT thru hike videos in which folks are flat out miserable because they are wet and cold after hiking through hours of rain. This got me wondering whether the fact that lots of people are trying carry less weight meant they don't have the "perfect" equipment for the conditions, or no matter what stuff they had, they'd still be cold and miserable.

So is there a way to hike on the AT in the colder months in hours of rain and be "fine" with the weather because you had the right gear choices? Would you need to carry 5lbs more? Multiple rain jackets....tops...etc?

Just curious.

No. There's no way to hike the AT for any period of time in the rain and stay dry. You're either going to get from rain or perspiration. If it's cold as well, you're going to get cold and wet at times. You either learn to deal with it, part "embracing the suck", part technique and skill and gear, or you bail out. It's one of the biggest reasons people abandon thru-hikes. The trail is not just harder than most envision, it's wetter and colder in March and April. If you slog through that, summer brings the hot and humid, which is different suck to embrace. You either embrace all the suck with the good, or you don't. It's not for everybody. Actually, it's not for most. Even most hikers.

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