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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puddlefish View Post
    I think you're just being unintentionally insulting, and claiming that something that you don't understand and agree with therefore must be a bad thing, as far as you're concerned. You're then making up reasons why they're a bad thing. Safety? No, that one's been debunked too many times. Let's go with "those with technology can't enjoy nature," yeah, that's the ticket. You're telling people, what's in their heads. Think about that. You claim I wasn't in the moment, seriously? That's just a weak argument. Should I have ignored the two women I chatted with as well? Sorry maam, can't talk to you right now, I'm in the moment with nature, and the slightest distraction is taking me out of the moment with nature! You're just grasping at straws. Technology as being rude and distracting to other people on the trail. I'm just not buying that it's a statistically significant problem that's unique to technology.

    I get it, when cell phones first came out 30ish years ago, they were a joke, 20 years ago, I myself was highly skeptical about cell phones and their effect on society. I didn't get a smart phone until three years ago, because I had absolutely no need of one. I thought who could possibly "need" to be so impatient that they couldn't wait to get home to browse the net? Strangely enough, I was gifted my very first cell phone to start with my AT thru hike attempt in 2016. My daughter gave me a beat up old iphone that barely had the processing power to turn itself on, barely enough battery power to run the Guthook app for navigation, twice a day. I also carried a camera, an extra two memory chips for the camera, a compass, a pound of paper maps, a Kindle, and a sixth of the AWOL guidebook. I walked about a month with that set up. I had to interrupt my hike, and get off the trail to mail a memory chip full of pictures to a daughter, who had to drive to my house, download that chip to my PC, drive back home, and mail that empty chip back to a post office ahead of me, so I could pick it up. Hours of my time, hours of my families time, just to get pictures... (which I require because of my crappy memory.) I stopped in Franklin, NC (I think) and bought a brand new phone, Guthook performed flawlessly, the camera was better than my phone, I had no need of paper maps, I sent pounds of weight home, I no longer had to leave the trail to send/store my pictures. It was convenient to label those pictures so I'd remember where they were taken. I learned that "My assumptions about cell phone users being impatient was dead wrong." The cell phone is just a tool, it can be used safely, and different applications can be used by different people, for different reasons and different times." The ones who use them unsafely, are a self correcting problem and die on the roadways. We don't have to worry about that portion of the population on the trail. (I also had a neighbor die in her car when she was putting on makeup, and drove into a bus, so we can't blame all our distraction problems on technology.)

    I live in a cottage in the woods, I can open a window and hear nature for half the year, at the end of my road are a network of trails, I live ten minutes from a legitimate mountain, within thirty minutes of another, and within an hour of many more. Every week, I climb a mountain, every day, I at least hit my local trails. Bringing my phone with me, or forgetting to charge it and leaving it at home isn't a big consideration to me. I'm equally happy with it or without it. Sometimes it makes a nice change to do things a little differently. There is not only one way to enjoy hiking for me.

    As for the lonely old man comment. I'm a volunteer driver for the elderly. A see a whole lot of bitter lonely old people, they're sad because the world is passing them by, they don't understand the technology, they losing the power and control that they used to enjoy, their bodies are failing them, their kids are busy with their own lives. Like every generation before them who's gotten old, rather than accepting their situation and maybe doing something constructive about it they blame what they don't understand.

    So, you can learn to roll with the punches, to embrace the technology, or you can whine about it. Different, does not equate to worse. I'm not suggesting that you specifically are lonely, and bitter, but you just might be heading down that road. It's been a few decades now, it's time to adapt. There's no great percentage of phone addicts out there as you seem to think, skateboarding is not a crime, music today is just as vibrant and inventive as it was when you were young. Or, you can keep railing against the injustice of a world that you don't understand because you're proudly claiming "not to be a swallower." That's just another term for being pointlessly inflexible. There's more to the world than what your daddy taught you. You need to think for yourself and see how the world is actually functioning these days. There's a whole lot of positive love out there in the world.

    As for the people secretly feeling guilty, that's just wishing on your part. Yeah, and you can end that story with "then an eagle few out on of the sky and landed on my shoulder, crying a single tear." A safety blanket? As if cell phone users are infants refusing to let go of their blankies? There's nothing wrong with safety devices.

    Are you suggesting that you walk naked into the woods, and put a stick in the ground to check the angle of the sun to aid with direction, based on the changing seasons, that you take no safety precautions, that you build your own shelters, hunt your own game with tools that you've built, and all that? Because I don't believe that you do, I think you use 98% of the exact same gear and safety devices that the rest of us do, and you're being pointlessly obstinate about the other 2%.

    The cell phone user who walked into the fountain at the mall, that was hilarious. I laughed too! But that's not how people use their tech on the trail.

    Buy a cheap $100 smart phone, like a 4th generation moto X, get a month to month service plan with minimal data, I'd recommend Verizon, which has great coverage along the trail. Use the Google Maps app for every day navigation, buy the Guthook app, get out on the trail. Use the phone as much or as little as you want. Use the phone, once a day, or or once a week, but use it. Ditch your home phone plan when you're comfortable, you'll likely save money overall. Come back in a year and join in this conversation as an informed individual, because currently, you aren't making much sense.

    Hey, maybe I'm entirely wrong about you. I'm not trying to be mean, I can only go by what you're written yourself here in this thread, and making assumptions based on what you've written. Pining for the golden days that were never quite all that golden isn't going to help you enjoy the trail more. The only think that's going to help you enjoy the trail is to get out onto the trail with a positive attitude.

    It's a gorgeous day outside, I'm going to go climb mount Kearsage. Yeah, I'll be driving my motorized horseless carriage to get over there, instead of making the 2.5 hour road walk each way. Wearing high tech clothing, microspikes, poles and yeah, even bringing my phone, with which I'll use as a safety device to text my daughter when I arrive at the specific trailhead, what trail I'm hiking and when I can be expected back. I may or may not listen to music during all or part of the hike. So, respond if you like, I'll read it eventually, because I enjoy debating on the internet probably a bit more than is good for my own mental health.

    Edit: Grammar, typos, general suckiness at typing. There are probably more mistakes, correct them in your head.
    100% agreed but unfortunately all you had to say is going to fly right over the heads of the "get off my lawn" brigade that makes up the majority of white blaze's active posters.

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenpete View Post
    Even my wife becomes very defensive when I tell her she shouldn't be spending so much time on F-Book. I can understand how certain hikers are sensitive to implications that they may be overdoing the technology.

    I'm not sure it's an "addiction," but I'm convinced there's an over-reliance on technology. Yeah, it's less obvious in the mountains than in the local park, or at a restaurant. My God, the bowed heads and glazed eyes that I witness. But I'm convinced those bowed heads and glazed (or at least, diverted) eyes are becoming more and more prevalent on the trails. I'm not being accusatory. I'm just giving my opinion based on what I've observed.
    Four yrs ago was at the summit of NY's Mt Marcy during a NLPT thru on a beautiful fall weather Sunday. 5 mph warm breeze. Sunny skies. Big puffy clouds perfect for doing cloud surveys. Fall color was at its peak. Bald Eagles and several hawk species were floating on thermals. With a quick count I got to 200 people. They were stumbling into and jostling each other like it was Mon 7 a.m. at the Tokyo Metro Shinjuku Station stop. More than 300 people at the summit. Best guess, about 350. Literally, no exaggeration, a good half of the people had their focus and awareness limited to a 3x5 phone. Many were trying to "take a lonely(Selfie)." I went to the side for a snack and sit down away from the fray where no one was! They walked like Zombie extras in Walking Dead through my food and the place where I was sitting. Several stumbled on on my removed pack. Some never expressed ANY awareness of what they had did. They were all glued to stabbing at their UnSmart mobile computer devices trying to get "connected." There was no reception for anyone! Dozens of people we're saying it - irritated, agitated, selfishly demanding, seeking to manipulate to get what THEY wanted, NEEDED just like the crack heads, detoxing heroin addicts, DTing alcoholics, and meth heads I've seen! Talk about being disconnected, unaware, ignorant, and vain!
    Now, we're going to say it's simply a matter of being mindful of your usage? Give me break!


    Don't get it twisted either. I too go to the trail and wilderness because I too need to detox, to sober up from societal norms.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenpete View Post
    Unless one hikes as an athletic pursuit (for a challenge, for fitness, etc.), the whole idea of a mountain hike is about getting out and enjoying nature, and separating oneself from the artificiality and cushy conveniences of urban/suburban society. Isnít it? If so, why are so many people dragging the digital revolution onto the trail? Donít devices like handheld computers (iPhones) and various ďappsĒ compromise the back-to-nature experience?
    I disagree with the premise that there is any objective "whole idea" to getting out and enjoying nature.

    In another post, OP, you said that people are disagreeing with you because they feel "guilty for relying on their toys." Personally, I disagree with you because I think you don't get to define the point of hiking (for anyone except yourself).

    I hike because I enjoy being out in the woods in the elements, because I find the exertion immensely satisfying, because feeling mountains under my feet makes me feel tangibly connected to the physical world. I hike because I love seeing animals and vistas and mushrooms and rocks and rivers. Sometimes I hike to socialize with other hikers or sometimes to avoid seeing other humans for days. I hike because I love it with a simple certainty that I rarely feel about anything else.

    And having my smartphone with me interferes with these objectives... oh, about 0%.

    Yes, it's a safety tool, among other things, but I don't get why people act like checking in with folks at home is somehow weak or dependent or inauthentic. I mean, it's your prerogative to decide how much communication with your family is appropriate for you, but I look at texting my mom every couple of days as an act of respect, of consideration for her feelings. Sure, maybe it would be macho and cool and authentic to let my mother wait until my next zero to know I haven't been struck by lightening or whatever, but I think the fear (even if irrational) that something has happened to me would burden her far more than taking a few minutes on a mountaintop when I get reception to send her an update would burden me.

    And if you catch up to me at a summit, and you see me "glued to my phone" while I'm doing that, and you feel like my "lack of restraint" somehow infringes on your wilderness experience, I would say that I am not the person with a problem. Sure, loud music or drones are poor etiquette on the level of second hand smoking. But I fail to see how my use of my phone to text home, check Guthook, take photos, or listen to music with my headphones could possibly be considered rudeness, when I am minding my own business and thoroughly enjoying my hike, all while respecting the trail and my fellow hikers by following LNT.
    Last edited by KnightErrant; 04-05-2019 at 16:59.
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  4. #104

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    Sure, loud music or drones are poor etiquette on the level of second hand smoking. But I fail to see how my use of my phone to text home, check Guthook, take photos, or listen to music with my headphones could possibly be considered rudeness, when I am minding my own business and thoroughly enjoying my hike, all while respecting the trail and my fellow hikers by following LNT.


    Just said in the post above how your electronic behavioral problems can impose on others from a personal experience. I can relate more if you like?


    This is the nature of denying the impacts of habitual and addictive behaviors. You're not always fully aware of your impacts until something catastrophic happens like "hitting rock bottom" - you have a moment of sobriety. No more digital connection. The "drugs" run out. It's not that a glass or two of wine makes and alcoholic. Neither does electronic use absolutely means all are addicts but modern society is set up primed for societal and behavioral addictions.


  5. #105
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    The biggest technological innovations that transformed the outdoors was the use of aluminum and nylon in backpacking gear making it possible for the masses to actually carry enough gear to sleep out in the woods - without a pack mule to carry the load. Dick Kelty pretty much changed hiking/backpacking forever with his pack and hip belt, and the evolution in gear that followed is still ongoing. We're now warmer and cooler and dryer and healthier as a result of all the "technology in the woods". 40 years of technology has given me better performing gear that weighs half as much. Are we addicted? Yeah, I'm afraid so.

    For me, both on and off trail, a cell phone is simply another modern convenience brought about by technology. And they still equip them with an on/off button. But I'm of an age when you used to have to turn the dial to select one of only three TV channels (that displayed a test pattern from midnight thru 6 am), and actually dial a phone number (and God help you if you engaged in any idle chit-chat on a long-distance call!) And I'm definitely not installing a distributor with points and condenser in my car for nostalgia's sake, or going on a road trip with only a Rand-McNally road atlas.

    There are a lot of people who might not otherwise be able to get away at all if they didn't have a means of checking in periodically and/or being contacted in a reasonable amount of time in an emergency. And they can be useful in a trail emergency. I don't see where that is a bad thing. Are they a distraction? For some yes, for others no, and probably for most just a momentary distraction from their nature experience. It's (distraction) a price they are willing to pay. It beats the old method of posting messages for hikers in shelter logs and at trailheads. Someone checking their messages or maps on phones or even calling home doesn't really affect me. And if it did, I could always politely let them know that it does.

    Either way, as with Aluminum and Titanium and carbon fiber, nylon and dyneema, and all the other tech and engineering we take into the woods, phones aren't going to become less used. We need to learn how to live with them - and the people that use them.
    Last edited by 4eyedbuzzard; 04-05-2019 at 17:36.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Just said in the post above how your electronic behavioral problems can impose on others from a personal experience.
    Well sure, walking into people or their belongings would be disruptive. Complaining loudly about the lack of reception would be disruptive. I agree that loud voices and invasion of space are both annoying behaviors, but neither one is necessary to using a phone nor exclusive to phone users.

    Me, I get to a summit, whip out my sit pad and a snack, enjoy the view for a while, and maybe snap a few photos and switch off airplane mode to check if there's enough reception to send a message to my mom or see the weather forecast. If that "imposes" on you, I'm not sure what to say. That's about as rational as being bothered by someone reading a book or wearing a color you don't like.
    Last edited by KnightErrant; 04-05-2019 at 17:43.
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  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    The biggest technological innovations that transformed the outdoors was the use of aluminum and nylon in backpacking gear making it possible for the masses to actually carry enough gear to sleep out in the woods - without a pack mule to carry the load. Dick Kelty pretty much changed hiking/backpacking forever with his pack and hip belt, and the evolution in gear that followed is still ongoing. We're now warmer and cooler and dryer and healthier as a result of all the "technology in the woods". 40 years of technology has given me better performing gear that weighs half as much.

    For me, both on and off trail, a cell phone is simply another modern convenience brought about by technology. And they still equip them with an on/off button. But I'm of an age when you used to have to turn the dial to select one of only three TV channels (that displayed a test pattern from midnight thru 6 am), and actually dial a phone number (and God help you if you engaged in any idle chit-chat on a long-distance call!) And I'm definitely not installing a distributor with points and condenser in my car for nostalgia's sake, or going on a road trip with only a Rand-McNally road atlas.

    There are a lot of people who might not otherwise be able to get away at all if they didn't have a means of checking in periodically and/or being contacted in a reasonable amount of time in an emergency. And they can be useful in a trail emergency. I don't see where that is a bad thing. Are they a distraction? For some yes, for others no, and probably for most just a momentary distraction from their nature experience. It's (distraction) a price they are willing to pay. It beats the old method of posting messages for hikers in shelter logs and at trailheads.

    Either way, as with Aluminum and Titanium and carbon fiber, nylon and dyneema, and all the other tech and engineering we take into the woods, phones aren't going to become less used.
    I mentioned the same thing in a couple of my posts. Heck the common hatchet is a technological gadget. My backpack is very modern with all sorts of technological improvements---and a big step up even from Kelty's old packs. Thing is, my pack or its spectra lid will not allow me to get online and check FB or whatever else while I'm out. Neither will my MSR stove or leather boots. I won't ever be walking around fixated and captivated by a small computer screen---and I won't be holding up my backpacking spoon 6 inches from my face for hours at a time---you get the idea.

    And let's not forget the big monthly bill which is attached to a smartphone. Yikes. In the old days no dirtbagging backpacker I knew had the extra $100 per month or whatever to spend on such a device. We were buying food from town to town with whatever money we had. Shelter trail registers worked just fine for messages---along with some paper maps and a couple paperback books.

    Technological improvements are not always better. Look at crank car windows vs electric windows. Motor goes out and that window is finished. The smartphone itself is a far step back from the full size screen and the full sized typing keyboard. Now we've gone back in evolution with thousands of people thumb-typing.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnightErrant View Post
    I disagree with the premise that there is any objective "whole idea" to getting out and enjoying nature.

    That's fine, disagree to your heart's content. It's why I asked "Isn't it?"

    In another post, OP, you said that people are disagreeing with you because they feel "guilty for relying on their toys." Personally, I disagree with you because I think you don't get to define the point of hiking (for anyone except yourself).

    Sorry, but I believe I suggested that the zeal of their DEFENSIVENESS, when all I did was suggest there might be "too much technology on the trail," might indicate some guilt for their relying on their toys. Mine was a theory in response to another commenter's theory that anti-tech hikers feel (ahem) "lonely." An odd one, but I guess we all have our own theories.

    I hike because I enjoy being out in the woods in the elements, because I find the exertion immensely satisfying, because feeling mountains under my feet makes me feel tangibly connected to the physical world. I hike because I love seeing animals and vistas and mushrooms and rocks and rivers. Sometimes I hike to socialize with other hikers or sometimes to avoid seeing other humans for days. I hike because I love it with a simple certainty that I rarely feel about anything else.

    Everything you've listed here - well, everything except socializing with other hikers, which isn't something that (I don't think) normally comes to mind - aligns with my statement about "getting out and enjoying nature and separating oneself..." Besides, I asked the question "Isn't it?" You obviously add other reasons for mountain backpacking, which is fine. But everything you listed above can be accomplished WITHOUT digital electronics, and...IN MY OPINION...their absence enhances the experience.


    And having my smartphone with me interferes with these objectives... oh, about 0%.

    I sincerely doubt that.

    Yes, it's a safety tool, among other things, but I don't get why people act like checking in with folks at home is somehow weak or dependent or inauthentic. I mean, it's your prerogative to decide how much communication with your family is appropriate for you, but I look at texting my mom every couple of days as an act of respect, of consideration for her feelings. Sure, maybe it would be macho and cool and authentic to let my mother wait until my next zero to know I haven't been struck by lightening or whatever, but I think the fear (even if irrational) that something has happened to me would burden her far more than taking a few minutes on a mountaintop when I get reception to send her an update would burden me.

    Like I said elsewhere, several times, I carry a flip-phone (to communicate with my wife, my kids, and my mom.) I never suggested checking in with home was "weak." The gist of my forum topic here is that I believe digital electronics are getting out of hand. And from what I've observed, and what certain others here have confirmed, they are. It's a matter of degree, sir. The Amish don't shun all technology. Individual sects shun certain technologies they've agreed will compromise their religious beliefs. I'm asserting that maybe...MAYBE...hikers should begin to think about limiting certain digital electronics. It's an individual choice, yes. But if enough individuals make the effort, I believe mountain backpacking experiences for EVERYONE will be enhanced. Probably won't happen, though. We're too addicted to our toys.

    And if you catch up to me at a summit, and you see me "glued to my phone" while I'm doing that, and you feel like my "lack of restraint" somehow infringes on your wilderness experience, I would say that I am not the person with a problem. Sure, loud music or drones are poor etiquette on the level of second hand smoking. But I fail to see how my use of my phone to text home, check Guthook, take photos, or listen to music with my headphones could possibly be considered rudeness, when I am minding my own business and thoroughly enjoying my hike, all while respecting the trail and my fellow hikers by following LNT.
    Where did you read that I said a person with a phone might have a "problem" or might be exhibiting "rudeness"? Once again...please re-read my original post. This demonization tactic is fairly common in politics today. I will reassert that your words indicate a defensiveness that is out of hand, and...IN MY OPINION...might indicate feelings of guilt for your reliance on those electronic safety blankets you listed. Actually...if you do have such feelings of guilt...maybe you do have a problem after all.
    Last edited by greenpete; 04-05-2019 at 19:30. Reason: Added spaces

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by KnightErrant View Post
    Well sure, walking into people or their belongings would be disruptive. Complaining loudly about the lack of reception would be disruptive. I agree that loud voices and invasion of space are both annoying behaviors, but neither one is necessary to using a phone nor exclusive to phone users.

    Me, I get to a summit, whip out my sit pad and a snack, enjoy the view for a while, and maybe snap a few photos and switch off airplane mode to check if there's enough reception to send a message to my mom or see the weather forecast. If that "imposes" on you, I'm not sure what to say. That's about as rational as being bothered by someone reading a book or wearing a color you don't like.
    I agree... unless the color is red. People who wear red are selfish vermin with no respect for others, they're just pathetic color addicts, poncing around in all of their redness.





    /sorry

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenpete View Post
    Where did you read that I said a person with a phone might have a "problem" or might be exhibiting "rudeness"? Once again...please re-read my original post. This demonization tactic is fairly common in politics today. I will reassert that your words indicate a defensiveness that is out of hand, and...IN MY OPINION...might indicate feelings of guilt for your reliance on those electronic safety blankets you listed. Actually...if you do have such feelings of guilt...maybe you do have a problem after all.
    How blind are you to your own tactics? You come here and define what backpacking should mean to all of us, imply that those who don't do it your way are fearful and various other things, then you believe that we're demonizing YOU? Does the concept of gas lighting mean nothing to you?

  11. #111

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    I feel like those pushing the no phone agenda are the ones annoyed and losing the true wilderness experience by letting it get under their skin out in the backcountry. Maybe some therapy would help. /s

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    Where did you read that I said a person with a phone might have a "problem" or might be exhibiting "rudeness"? Once again...please re-read my original post. This demonization tactic is fairly common in politics today. I will reassert that your words indicate a defensiveness that is out of hand, and...IN MY OPINION...might indicate feelings of guilt for your reliance on those electronic safety blankets you listed. Actually...if you do have such feelings of guilt...maybe you do have a problem after all."


    @Greenpete, The title of the thread is "Too much technology." The phrase "too much" suggests something is happening to a problematic extent. Rudeness is a synonym for "lack of restraint and etiquette." I don't think I've misrepresented your opinion just because I haven't quoted you exactly. But it's not productive to attempt a conversation when one party is operating under the assumption that any disagreement is demonization and/or defensiveness that thus serves to reinforce his original argument. I mean, on the first page you literally shut down multiple people who offered differing opinions by saying you were just curious about who agreed with you, so I guess I should have known what I was getting myself into when I took the time to respond.

    Ahh, Whiteblaze, again and again proving there's no wrong way to eat a Reeses, but there IS a wrong way to enjoy the outdoors and it's any way that's different from mine, darnit!
    Last edited by KnightErrant; 04-05-2019 at 20:35.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    ,,,,,,, But I'm of an age when you used to have to turn the dial to select one of only three TV channels (that displayed a test pattern from midnight thru 6 am), and actually dial a phone number (and God help you if you engaged in any idle chit-chat on a long-distance call!) And I'm definitely not installing a distributor with points and condenser in my car for nostalgia's sake, or going on a road trip with only a Rand-McNally road atlas...........
    You made me laugh when I thought about changing the points, condenser and plugs every 10,000 miles and setting the timing with a strobe light and by turning the distributer. Thank goodness for progress.
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnightErrant View Post

    @Greenpete, The title of the thread is "Too much technology." The phrase "too much" suggests something is happening to a problematic extent. Rudeness is a synonym for "lack of restraint and etiquette." I don't think I've misrepresented your opinion just because I haven't quoted you exactly. But it's not productive to attempt a conversation when one party is operating under the assumption that any disagreement is demonization and/or defensiveness that thus serves to reinforce his original argument. I mean, on the first page you literally shut down multiple people who offered differing opinions by saying you were just curious about who agreed with you, so I guess I should have known what I was getting myself into when I took the time to respond.

    Ahh, Whiteblaze, again and again proving there's no wrong way to eat a Reeses, but there IS a wrong way to enjoy the outdoors and it's any way that's different from mine, darnit!
    KnightErrant, you're pretty perceptive, and I like your style. I will admit I probably worded my original post such that it implied there definitively IS too much technology on the trail. ("Too much" is a subjective view). And I've clung to that while attempting (without realizing it) to rationalize in subsequent comments. And you're right, rudeness is a synonym for "lack of restraint and etiquette," and it was wrong of me to imply that those who strongly defend their "devices" may be feeling guilty for having to rely on them. (That was a response to a similar accusation against us anti-tech folks.) THEREFORE...I'll take the high road and apologize to you and anyone else I may have offended.

    That being said, I do think there are many instances when electronics are intrusive on other hikers, and their increasing incursion into the mountains doesn't bode well for wildlife, either (in my opinion). My own experience on a quiet lake in Yosemite, with a drone buzzing overhead, testifies to that (you'll have to take my word). I've never claimed to be a purist. Like I said, I have a flip-phone for emergency, and with which to call loved ones. My concern is that this country's remaining wildlands could become just another internet cafť. We could probably argue this point till the chickens (or raptors) come home to roost. But that's my take, take it or leave it.

    Anyway...as Ringo always says: Peace and Love!

    "Wilderness is where things work the way they're supposed to work" - Walkin' Jim Stoltz

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southeast View Post
    I feel like those pushing the no phone agenda are the ones annoyed and losing the true wilderness experience by letting it get under their skin out in the backcountry. Maybe some therapy would help. /s
    That's about the dumbest thing I've read here. I don't think anyone has such an agenda; I think we all realize the technology is here to stay. Or is overrun by newer technology.

    But it's sort of sad to see the lines between civilization and the backcountry (or whatever you care to call the untouched land) steadily morph into one. Little by little, humans are losing touch with their origins, and as the backcountry/wilderness/nature continues to disappear, or succumbs to the industrial complex and becomes more "civilized," well then, what's the point of even trying to preserve any of it, or have these discussions?

    This may seem fatalistic, but as humans become less interested in "their" surroundings when within nature, as each subsequent generation tends to, nature hasn't a fighting chance. (Really just affecting we robotic humanoids and today's unfortunate other lifeforms.) Thankfully, nature bats last, and in time, she'll scour herself clean and begin anew. Maybe the next so-called high-intelligent lifeforms will be a little less parasitic and self-destructive!

  16. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uriah View Post
    That's about the dumbest thing I've read here. I don't think anyone has such an agenda; I think we all realize the technology is here to stay. Or is overrun by newer technology.

    But it's sort of sad to see the lines between civilization and the backcountry (or whatever you care to call the untouched land) steadily morph into one. Little by little, humans are losing touch with their origins, and as the backcountry/wilderness/nature continues to disappear, or succumbs to the industrial complex and becomes more "civilized," well then, what's the point of even trying to preserve any of it, or have these discussions?

    This may seem fatalistic, but as humans become less interested in "their" surroundings when within nature, as each subsequent generation tends to, nature hasn't a fighting chance. (Really just affecting we robotic humanoids and today's unfortunate other lifeforms.) Thankfully, nature bats last, and in time, she'll scour herself clean and begin anew. Maybe the next so-called high-intelligent lifeforms will be a little less parasitic and self-destructive!
    Please. Why do you think the OP started this thread? It was looking for validation that thereís too much technology in the wilderness. When folks provided good reasons for using a phone, it didnít matter. They knew our secret reasons.

    And thanks for the rest of your comment - made me laugh to think youíve taken this post on using phones to argue it will lead to some post-apocalyptic planet lead by robots. Or cockroaches.
    And no I wonít resort to childish ways of describing your thinking.

  17. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by knighterrant View Post
    ahh, whiteblaze, again and again proving there's no wrong way to eat a reeses, but there is a wrong way to enjoy the outdoors and it's any way that's different from mine, darnit!
    lmao.......

  18. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uriah View Post
    That's about the dumbest thing I've read here. I don't think anyone has such an agenda; I think we all realize the technology is here to stay. Or is overrun by newer technology.

    But it's sort of sad to see the lines between civilization and the backcountry (or whatever you care to call the untouched land) steadily morph into one. Little by little, humans are losing touch with their origins, and as the backcountry/wilderness/nature continues to disappear, or succumbs to the industrial complex and becomes more "civilized," well then, what's the point of even trying to preserve any of it, or have these discussions?

    This may seem fatalistic, but as humans become less interested in "their" surroundings when within nature, as each subsequent generation tends to, nature hasn't a fighting chance. (Really just affecting we robotic humanoids and today's unfortunate other lifeforms.) Thankfully, nature bats last, and in time, she'll scour herself clean and begin anew. Maybe the next so-called high-intelligent lifeforms will be a little less parasitic and self-destructive!
    Connecting with nature will be downloading a virtual reality of it at regional amusement parks.

    On to the next planet to colonize like a parasitic organism.

    Next stop on the stationary riding - standing - not walking - East Coast Metro People Walkway - formerly known in barbaric times as the Appalachian Trail, is Hot Springs NC. We'll be arriving at the Mt Katahadin Maine stop in 23 mins. Present your forearm chip to be read for fare processing. All aboard.

  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    To what extent does that apply?


    This is the type of "I'm only responsible to myself" attitude that can be a growing problem...because in the real world, with imperfect fallible human behavior, the awareness qualifier "keep it unobtrusive so as not to disturb anyone nearby" can be lacking. It's in evidence every time when discussing behavioral responsibility beyond the end of one's nose on WB. It's why LNT or quota or regulations discussions can get so heated. It's why we need MODS to control something that one might expect to be as simple as what to discretionary post on a Female Forum!



    What if an individual's definition of what a hike should be, what it should include, or how it should be done is not pulling or displaying a required permit as part of regs, playing music at 9 p.m. at an AT shelter with six others sleeping on Fri night because it's 'early' on a typical party night - time to dance on the picnic tables with your other two party buddies - backpacking and wilderness drunkenness and other drugs are a natural, being in the habit of arriving at an AT shelter after 9 p.m. because you're going fast and light doing 30+ miles/day making up for a late start - any food anyone, I'm low on food?, hiking naked as a "minimalist- be free" male dangling down the trail meeting up with a Girl Scout Troop or free balling wearing a kilt not using discretion when sitting or doing cartwheels, taking a dump in or right next to the trail or in CS's, hiking with your dog off leash with little command of your "emotional support" pet or saying your Rottweilers are loving needed "service" animals because NO Dogs on trail doesn't apply to you, leaving food tins in fire rings, discarding broken or unwanted garbage and gear under a shelter, cutting switchbacks, trees are for firewood - that's why I bring a hatchet, to chop down trees, stalking women on trail...

    Seen all those situations, some many times.


    We bring our off trail habits and addictions - YES addictions - to the trail. What if off trail you're addicted to digital or fart ph(mobile computer) usage, being a habitual racist, sexist, bigot, slob,...?





    It's very easy to say that. In practice people don't do what is said or what they know they should do, especially when being controlled by habits and addictions - such as electronic usage can be - an addiction where one is likely to disregard their impacts on others.

    Modern high income per capita cultures such as the U.S. ignore cultural tendencies and addictions even promoting them for economic, social, or other reasons. We bring these tendencies and addictions to the trail... and we expect and often demand others to kowtow to them - tech and digital applications included.
    Right. So if you are going to use technology, do so unobtrusively (so as not to disturb others nearby).

  20. #120
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    Those who have never been (semi) disconnected may only see the downside — which is very real. But so too is the updside.

    its not just HYOH.

    You can’t go home again.

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