Too Much Technology on the Trail?

[Puddlefish]

Devices have nothing to do with "expanding the outdoor experience." Such an "expansion" belief seems to come from apologists who in fact support such devices in the backcountry. The best way to expand the outdoor experience is to live outdoors 24/7---in all conditions and in all kinds of weather.

I find this a strange attitude from you. You post far more educational/trip pics than I ever do. I've learned a good bit from your technology on the trail.

[Tipi Walter]

I was tired, and out of shape, had hiked as far as I could, set my tent up early in a field below a bald. Hiked to the top of the bald for the view. Trudged back down and was asleep by 8. There were four other tents of sleeping hikers by the time I got down. Around 9, I hear some noise, I figure it's just some folks setting up tents. Then more noise, then more noise. A group of 8 locals set up a huge 8 person tent, set a campfire in the middle of a field and were proceeding to party.

I walked over, said Hello, and sleepily said, "we got here a few hours ago, for some needed sleep, it was a beautiful quiet spot... also, please keep that fire small and extinguish it completely when your done, because I don't want to burn to death in my tent." They looked up, apologized profusely, and actually didn't make a peep for the rest of the night. I was shocked.

The next morning, the guy I was with, said "Thank God, you went over their, because I was about to start screaming at them.

This is a good story and points out the problems that can arise when camping in a "common area"---and not a single small site where you get "first dibs" and no one comes in to mess up your spot.

These common areas---open campgrounds---can quickly turn to crap when Bonfire enthusiasts come out to party---and there always seems to be alcohol involved. My only advice is---Bring Earplugs. You'll need them when the "monkey howling" begins.

But you lucked out---they actually gave a crap and got quiet. Being quiet in a shared camp is part of the LNT mindset---something groups need to remember, and esp boy scout troops.

[Tipi Walter]

I find this a strange attitude from you. You post far more educational/trip pics than I ever do. I've learned a good bit from your technology on the trail.

I mentioned using a digital camera and radio etc. My rant concerns gaining Internet Access while out on a trip. I.e. bringing a smartphone. For me I don't want to be online ever when I'm out. You're mixing up the technologies. As mentioned, my pack is a very complex piece of technology---as are my boots and MSR stove and WM sleeping bag etc. But none of these items---while space age devices---allow me to surf on the internet.

The OP mentioned "handheld computers"---which to me is bringing a device to allow internet access. It's a nitpicking distinction of course---as my camera is also a handheld computer. I just draw the line at getting on the web.

Then again, who goes out with no technology? Or gadgets? Even a sharp hatchet is a gadget.

[Southeast]

I find this a strange attitude from you. You post far more educational/trip pics than I ever do. I've learned a good bit from your technology on the trail.

Yea I enjoy seeing Tipi’s selfies from the trail

[TexasBob]

.......As far as technology:
It's a generational thing, you're a Boomer. A millennial doesn't really know any different. Gen X-ers and especially the Oregon Trail generation, had an analog childhood and a digital adulthood. They might be the demographic on the fence in this discussion.

There is your answer. My observation is if you grew up in the smart phone era you may be more likely to see a smart phone as a constant companion - always on and within arm's reach. If you are a geezer like me then you may be more likely to see a smart phone as a convenience that can be turned off and stowed away until needed. Not a value judgement just an observation.

[soilman]

I am not a Luddite but I don't own a smartphone. I have recently carried a Kindle and Ipod to use in my tent. I think many people have an addiction to smartphone use and it is not a generational issue. I have seen people of all ages glued to their phones. I don't see how devices expand the outdoor experience for the user. On the other hand I have read accounts of hikers spending extra time in town just so they can catch up with all their social networking. This seems to subtract from the outdoor experience. Like others, what I object to is the intrusion of their use by others on my space. I have encountered hikers on the trail with their music blasting so they could share it with their friends. On numerous occasions people have carried out phone conversations at shelters, overlooks, etc. Just like any public place, to me that is just plain rude.

[Tipi Walter]

There is your answer. My observation is if you grew up in the smart phone era you may be more likely to see a smart phone as a constant companion - always on and within arm's reach. If you are a geezer like me then you may be more likely to see a smart phone as a convenience that can be turned off and stowed away until needed. Not a value judgement just an observation.

This might explain why I RARELY see as many backpackers as I used to see in the good old days before smartphone . . . captivation. I bet such phone addictions are keeping a huge group of people out of the woods. Which is both good and bad.

[Puddlefish]

I mentioned using a digital camera and radio etc. My rant concerns gaining Internet Access while out on a trip. I.e. bringing a smartphone. For me I don't want to be online ever when I'm out. You're mixing up the technologies. As mentioned, my pack is a very complex piece of technology---as are my boots and MSR stove and WM sleeping bag etc. But none of these items---while space age devices---allow me to surf on the internet.

What's the difference between a radio, and the internet. Just a matter of scale and convenience. I get the weather within seconds, you might have to wait a minute or two for the weather reporter to cycle to your area. I'm using technology for less time. You take your picture, wait til you get home, I assume upload the pictures to your computers, and then share your stories here. I take a picture, hit the share button, and include it in a text to my kids. It's not really all that different of a process.

You could theoretically listen to a baseball broadcast, I could theoretically watch a baseball game. It's the same amount of time, it's just what we choose to, or don't choose to do with it. (I don't actually watch movies or games while I'm on the trail.) I might use the phone as a mobile hotspot for my Kindle and download another book though. I don't see how that's any more or less moral/intrusive/better/worse than bringing a paperback.

[Zalman]

Funny, people talk all the time about how phone apps are so much "better" than paper maps, but for the life of my I can't figure out why they think so. The phone window is too tiny to provide any overall perspective. Maybe a phone is better for keeping you perfectly on a staunchly pre-determined route (I wouldn't know, I don't hike like that). For the sort of exploring I prefer, a paper map is far superior.

And of course any skill that goes unused atrophies -- I would hate to be someone who used nothing but phone apps for years (or worse, "never"!) and needs to find their way home when their phone breaks.

[Puddlefish]

Speaking to the generational thing. I went to an Olive Garden with some in laws. A pair of 80 year olds, a bunch of 55 year olds, and one Millennial. Grandparents, parents and kid.

Mom is on her phone the entire time creeping (stalking) on the kid's facebook feed, mom and grandma are trying to set the kid up on a date based on her facebook friends. Grampa is loudly calling out his opinion. Dad is sitting there kind of embarrassed by his families behavior. The kid is telling the old folks that it's rude to keep your face in the phone during dinner. The waitress was just trying to get people's attention so she could do her job and get paid. I just sat quietly and watched the train wreck.

So, let's not blame this one on the kids.

[Tipi Walter]

What's the difference between a radio, and the internet. Just a matter of scale and convenience. I get the weather within seconds, you might have to wait a minute or two for the weather reporter to cycle to your area. I'm using technology for less time. You take your picture, wait til you get home, I assume upload the pictures to your computers, and then share your stories here. I take a picture, hit the share button, and include it in a text to my kids. It's not really all that different of a process.

You could theoretically listen to a baseball broadcast, I could theoretically watch a baseball game. It's the same amount of time, it's just what we choose to, or don't choose to do with it. (I don't actually watch movies or games while I'm on the trail.) I might use the phone as a mobile hotspot for my Kindle and download another book though. I don't see how that's any more or less moral/intrusive/better/worse than bringing a paperback.

I think the difference is what Soilman says---

"I think many people have an addiction to smartphone use and it is not a generational issue. I have seen people of all ages glued to their phones.

I don't see how devices expand the outdoor experience for the user.

On the other hand I have read accounts of hikers spending extra time in town just so they can catch up with all their social networking. This seems to subtract from the outdoor experience. On numerous occasions people have carried out phone conversations at shelters, overlooks, etc. Just like any public place, to me that is just plain rude."

In this scenario, let's imagine someone is spending most of his waking hours glued to his phone---when not working etc. Then the guy goes out for a two week backpacking trip. Will he still stay glued to his phone?? If so, well, that's not my idea of a personally rewarding backpacking trip. And so I spurn their use.

Or even worse---imagine a whole generation of people never backpacking because they might get disconnected.

[Southeast]

I don’t have a good answer for what is the right amount of technology in the backcountry.

When I first took my teen daughters backpacking, I decided to let them use their phones as much as they wanted to. Personally I wanted the trip to be less about electronics and more about our time together. But I decided I would rather enjoy the time we had together regardless of how they experienced it. So they sent off snapchats and posted pics on Instagram and whatever. Their version of a real-time trip report. And we hiked and crossed some creek like 32 times and had an overall great time.

Fast forward a few weeks and I was pleased to see that one outcome of the phone usage was a lot of my daughters friends said wow that looked like such a fun trip and then went on trips like that with them in the future.

Fast forward a few years and both daughters love being in the outdoors. One is a backpacker that still enjoys a backpacking trip with her dad even though she is in college. The other isn’t much of a hiker but will live the dirtbag lifestyle of sleeping in her car while exploring then PNW. And yes both still like to send their “trip reports” via Snapchats and Instagram vs trail journals. And I sometimes wonder if they are addicting to their phones too much. But at least I know they love the outdoors and it has deep roots in both of them.

[Puddlefish]

Funny, people talk all the time about how phone apps are so much "better" than paper maps, but for the life of my I can't figure out why they think so. The phone window is too tiny to provide any overall perspective. Maybe a phone is better for keeping you perfectly on a staunchly pre-determined route (I wouldn't know, I don't hike like that). For the sort of exploring I prefer, a paper map is far superior.

And of course any skill that goes unused atrophies -- I would hate to be someone who used nothing but phone apps for years (or worse, "never"!) and needs to find their way home when their phone breaks.

I can navigate with a sextant, a compass, a reference book, and a paper map. I'd hate to try to navigate my way home if my map caught fire. blew off a cliff or into the water. I carry paper maps for a new day hike, but they're typically a sheet of printed paper and rarely have much detail. Phones just don't break any more often than maps blow overboard. It's an AT forum, no one is getting lost on the AT.

[Feral Bill]

Serious question... why are you on the internet off the trail and how is that different?

Seriously, you can't see the difference? DON'T HYOH, please.

[Southeast]

Seriously, you can't see the difference? DON'T HYOH, please.

Please expound... I’m not catching the point you are trying to make. It’s probably just me being dense.

[Tipi Walter]

Southeast---
You remind me of recently returning from a trip where I got to hike and camp with many high school kids pulling their 11 day wilderness trek with the Cranbrook School out of Michigan. The trip leaders want the experience to be a group bonding experience and also a group bonding with their outdoor environment.

SO---they have a strict rule of no phones and no texting or chatting with the outside world. They view this rule as helping with group cohesiveness and team building. The last thing they want are their kids live streaming and texting and surfing---and such activity breaking into the group.

That's my point---I'm out just like them (my Team is just me)---and I value staying out and value breaking the online connection.

Here's some happy Cranbrook kids on the Nubuster trail in NC---

Trip 196 (224)-XL.jpg

[Puddlefish]

I think the difference is what Soilman says---

"I think many people have an addiction to smartphone use and it is not a generational issue. I have seen people of all ages glued to their phones.

I don't see how devices expand the outdoor experience for the user.

On the other hand I have read accounts of hikers spending extra time in town just so they can catch up with all their social networking. This seems to subtract from the outdoor experience. On numerous occasions people have carried out phone conversations at shelters, overlooks, etc. Just like any public place, to me that is just plain rude."

In this scenario, let's imagine someone is spending most of his waking hours glued to his phone---when not working etc. Then the guy goes out for a two week backpacking trip. Will he still stay glued to his phone?? If so, well, that's not my idea of a personally rewarding backpacking trip. And so I spurn their use.

Or even worse---imagine a whole generation of people never backpacking because they might get disconnected.

Regarding your bolded emphasis. I'm not sure how your perception of it being an addiction is largely just your perception. Sure, people have addictions to a whole lot of things, but those addictions generally don't impact you.

How is a phone conversation, that excludes you, any worse than a standard conversation between two people, that doesn't include you? Do you think you should be able to join in on any conversation, are you frustrated because you can't eaves drop and know what they're talking about?

I personally hate talking on the phone myself, hate it. I hate texting even more. I rely on facial expressions and bodily clues. I don't have the finger coordination to text, so I come off sounding like a neanderthal because I'm too lazy to form coherent thoughts. I rarely use the phone feature of my phone.

I can certainly respect anyone who spurns phones/electronics/whatever for their own use... I can't see the point in getting upset or judging other people for their addictions, for their electronics, their habits that flat out don't affect me.

[Zalman]

I can navigate with a sextant, a compass, a reference book, and a paper map. I'd hate to try to navigate my way home if my map caught fire. blew off a cliff or into the water. I carry paper maps for a new day hike, but they're typically a sheet of printed paper and rarely have much detail. Phones just don't break any more often than maps blow overboard. It's an AT forum, no one is getting lost on the AT.

Phones can be dropped into ravines just as much as maps can blow away, that much is the same. Phones, being electronic, have an additional points of failure that maps don't have.

[Tipi Walter]

Regarding your bolded emphasis. I'm not sure how your perception of it being an addiction is largely just your perception. Sure, people have addictions to a whole lot of things, but those addictions generally don't impact you.

How is a phone conversation, that excludes you, any worse than a standard conversation between two people, that doesn't include you? Do you think you should be able to join in on any conversation, are you frustrated because you can't eaves drop and know what they're talking about?

I personally hate talking on the phone myself, hate it. I hate texting even more. I rely on facial expressions and bodily clues. I don't have the finger coordination to text, so I come off sounding like a neanderthal because I'm too lazy to form coherent thoughts. I rarely use the phone feature of my phone.

I can certainly respect anyone who spurns phones/electronics/whatever for their own use... I can't see the point in getting upset or judging other people for their addictions, for their electronics, their habits that flat out don't affect me.

Those highlighted quotes were from Soilman's Post. You may want to ask Soilman about it.

The OP asked our opinions of bringing handheld computers on our backpacking trips. My opinion is a big negatory---others have differing opinions.

[Puddlefish]

Those highlighted quotes were from Soilman's Post. You may want to ask Soilman about it.

The OP asked our opinions of bringing handheld computers on our backpacking trips. My opinion is a big negatory---others have differing opinions.

Ah, I missed that. I'm still figuring out this internet thing. Anyway, it's above 40 degree now, I'm going to go climb a hill. (Yeah, I am a giant cold wimp.) It's been fun chatting.