Tarps vs bugs

[MuddyWaters]

My view has always been, if you need a wr bivy to stay dry with tarp, your tarp is too small.

I use a bug bivy or solo net tent with 8oz shaped tarp. For me, combo works great.
Bug bivy or narrow net tent can be used in shelters , by themselves, or with tarp. Total protection and flexibility for 13 -18oz.

If there were better system at any cost, id be using it.

Only thing I don't like is the pole is outside the net tent when the net tent is pitched under the tarp. I like to hang my pack from my pole to keep it off the ground and out of the way. When I hang it outside the net tent it kind of swings into the net tent and encroaches on room. This is because the pole leans at an angle. The vertical pole inside my Hexamid is much better in this in that regard.

[Zalman]

In that Mountain West you never experienced rain or snow, bugs or 65 temps?

Not debating. Adding

Ha, no worries, yeah just sharing my experiences. Yes, I have seen snow and rain, but snow doesn't splash, and spindrift doesn't hurt anything, and I've never seen rain hard enough that an 8x10 tarp didn't do the trick just fine. Sleeping bag shells are already water resistant, and mine have always worked just fine in this regard. I've slept in snowstorms above treeline in Wind River with no shelter at all other than a jacket over my head, and the sleeping bag performed fine. I got buried in snow, while my down stayed perfectly dry.

No, I've never seen bugs or 65° temps at night in the mountains out west.

[Dogwood]

Salmon you're doing it all wrong. HMHD

[Slo-go'en]

I remember a trip I took in the Canadian Rockies where the mosquitos were so bad (for 3 solid weeks) I would have gone insane had it not been for my tent. As soon as we got to camp there would be a cloud of Skeeters swarming around us. Set the tent up as quick as possible and get in for some relief. Cooking dinner had to be done in full rain suit. Gortex was the only thing those buggers couldn't bite through. And when it stays twilight until past midnight, they are out for a long time.

The second Canadian Rockies trip I took, bugs weren't a problem because it rained for 3 weeks.

It really depends on where you are and when your there as to what will be effective.

[Traillium]

We don’t have alligators or crocodiles up here in Canada because our mozzies are so fierce. I always paddle or hike with mosquito netting as potential coverage. Except when there’s snow on the ground …

Sure, I sleep uncovered out in the open in summer. Quite often, the next night, or the next campsite has fearsome bugs after dusk. Mozzie netting is an essential item up here.

Shall I also mention no-see-ums or black flies? …


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[MuddyWaters]

We don’t have alligators or crocodiles up here in Canada because our mozzies are so fierce.

I know your jesting,
But fun fact, actually its because when incubation temperature is outside a very narrow range, the eggs are all born one sex.

[Traillium]

But fun fact, actually its because when incubation temperature is outside a very narrow range, the eggs are all born one sex.

Now only if that were to work on mozzies!


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[Zalman]

Salmon you're doing it all wrong. HMHD

Now Slo' has a good point about the Canadian Rockies. I haven't experienced bad bugs at *night* in the Rockies, but I've definitely been far enough north that "night" never really fully happens, and mosquitos have a big Dusk Party 24/7.

[T.S.Kobzol]

As long as we all drink the cool aid...one thing i noticed in mosquito infested situations is that with a teepee tarp (hmg mid). If you pitch it low enough i.e a couple inches from the ground or less and if you kill all bugs inside the mosquitoes don’t really crawl under to enter. They kind of buzz higher or sit on the fabric waiting...


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[Dogwood]

As long as we all drink the cool aid...one thing i noticed in mosquito infested situations is that with a teepee tarp (hmg mid). If you pitch it low enough i.e a couple inches from the ground or less and if you kill all bugs inside the mosquitoes don’t really crawl under to enter. They kind of buzz higher or sit on the fabric waiting...
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You must have a specialized tarp understanding developed over yrs of tarp experience...or, maybe you simply haven't turned your mind off? Addressing insects can be a simple as that. Wasn't that not difficult?

[English Stu]

I have done 1000 mile or so on the AT. I Go-lite tarped about 750 miles south to Mt Springer and I have done two other sections North including Mt Katahdin with a TarpTent Moment. I tarped across the European Alps. Done other long hikes in the UK.
I experimented with a Gatewood Cape and had net skirt added. My problem with tarp and the Cape was the pitch footprint required with all the guy lines; add in the tree roots everywhere you want to stake issue and it can take along time finding a pitch, especially if adding a bug net.
I now have Tarptent Notch and like its simplicity and easy pitching. I use the TT Moment in the winter. I do have a MLD Superlite bivvy which I know is a bit belt and braces but in big rains you sleep well not worrying about waking up in puddle, plus I can cowboy camp in good weather.
I have been in a couple of hurricane rain spins and a tropical storm so have a seen a bit of rain. My base weight is about 12 pounds.
If tarping you need a few lengthy shakedown hikes with all your gear to make sure you gain confidence with them.

[Tipi Walter]

I just got back from a trip so I'm late to the discussion.

I've solved the Tarp vs Tent question by using a Tent which becomes a Tarp when desired---I just remove the inner tent and use the tent as a . . . uh . . . tarp. See pic---



Here's my "tarp"---and it even has its own set of poles. Btw, any tent fly is a tarp w/o the inner.

But I agree with Colter and others who recommend an enclosed tent with a floor and an inner canopy---for a variety of reasons. Bugs and noseeums are one big reason. Ground water is another. Wind blown spindrift is another. And terrific windstorms. And terrible condensation in the winter under the right conditions---negating the use of any kind of single wall shelter.

[Leo L.]

Tried this (tarp-like setup) with two of my freestanding tents by using a DIY groundsheet providing the right setup points for the poles.
After a few test runs I didn't find it useful at all, so I'm just using my tents exactly the way they were designed.

[Tipi Walter]

On my most recent trip I ran into the Cranbrook School out of Michigan pulling their 50th Annual 11 day wilderness trip and all the kids and trip leaders use tarps. Here's an interesting tarp configuration used by the kids at around 5,000 feet on a cold and windy night (in NC)---get that sucker low!!!



Here's a typical leader's tarp---smaller to house 3 trip leaders (the 7 kids use a larger tarp as above)---



And the leaders don't have to use these heavy silver tarps---they can improvise. Here's Hannah's leaders tarp---

[Dogwood]

My view has always been, if you need a wr bivy to stay dry with tarp, your tarp is too small.

Maybe. Maybe not.

Site selection can play a more important role in some tarp set ups like A frame or 1/2 mids. If in a traditional tent and the entrance was faced into the oncoming wind driven rain You could get rain or splash inside the tent with some designs. The same goes true for tarps. I'd guesstimate those that do employ a WR bivy aren't just doing it to address splash but also to amend their sleeping bag/quilt sleep system. But now we're bringing together the less familiar tarp story with the sometimes misunderstood bivy story.

And, this is where 4eyedbuzzard makes a good pt that tarp usage can become complicated under some buggy wet weather windy scenarios with the modular/component based approach.


Ron gave a quick bivy run down:

1. To be part of a total sleep heat retention system, adding 5 – 15 degrees of warmth, especially when even a slight wind gets under and around your shelter.
2. Bug protection.
3. Built in ground cloth.
4. To protect from any blown or splashed rain /snow that gets in under your overhead shelter.
5. To shave weight from a total shelter system. It’s a 7 oz multi-purpose piece of gear that allows for a lighter sleeping bag, a smaller overhead shelter, and no ground cloth, or extra bug protection system.
6. It can be used alone for night temps above about 65 degrees when you do not need a sleeping bag but do need some wind/water protection. It adds a bit of warmth (like a sheet.)
7. It can be used alone, with no overhead tarp, for cowboy camping.
8. It pairs perfectly with a backcountry-style quilt to limit warm air venting during night moves.
9. By putting your sleep pad inside the bivy you increase the sleep pads thermal efficiency by limiting convective heat loss.

[Tipi Walter]

None of the Cranbrook kids bring bivy bags---so when things get bad with their tarps they resort to lashing up end sheets to block cold wind and snow---

[Tipi Walter]

Here's another pic of their technique---taken back in 2013 in a different cold storm---

[Tipi Walter]

One advantage to a tarp is you can build a small wood fire underneath if needed---

[Dogwood]

One advantage to a tarp is you can build a small wood fire underneath if needed---

What's the shelter in the background, BA?

[Dogwood]

That low of pitch can get you through some seriously nasty weather. "30 -24" tarp heights can get old when the ground and you are drenched and you have to crawl underneath in wet weather or crawl out from underneath in teh middle of a saint night. Wonder if they use pee bottles? These tarps are wide enough they could pitch the ridge higher while still pitching hems to teh ground increasing livability.