Tarps vs bugs

[T.S.Kobzol]

I own this:
download.jpg
I have pitched it with my tarp a few times...as a trial to see how it would work and how i would go about using it. Interestingly enough I never used it on a trip. I have too much other gear that made this item obsolete (so far)

I also own the HMG Mid Half Insert that I have actually used many times on trips ranging from hiking, to backcountry ski touring to bicycle touring. It works reasonably well...there is one other thing about single wall tarps/tents ... you get misting on the inside when it is raining or wet...you are in your sleeping bag and receive either droplet drips on your face or feeling of wet mist.

It is somewhat moot point if You spend several days in a rainy environment...pretty much every shelter and every item in your possession will be wet.

That word tarp is thrown about lately. It can be muddled with tarp tents, shaped tarps, flat tarps and maybe a few other versions I'm missing. To which are you referring?

Last few yrs go to tarps shelters have been MLD Solomid, Duomid, and a couple Locus selections in mids, catenary cut shaped tarps from OWare and MLD and assorted flat tarps with cat cut hems or straight hem true flat tarps.

The 'tarp' shelter choice plays into how I might set up.

Most of all I try to first ascertain the level of the threat in matching the response.

I like going cheap, flexible, diverse and modular or component based 'inner' systems. I don't go the bug bivy route. I want to break that component down into greater components. This is one reason why I use tarps - to tweak the components as different conditions exist to avoid unnecessary bulk and wt. I may use a WR bivy though with a tarp in part to address vampires. Bug bivies are more money and lock me in to having incorporated floor and netting. I like having the choice of different ground cloths flat or bathtub style in Kite Tvek, polycro, or outlandishly priced DCF. I go two routes for netting 1) either a C2Summit Nanoseeum w/insect Shield in 1 p or if 2 p if using the Duo or Locus. If either of those larger mids are used and 1 p I use the 1 p netting 2) a DIY tulle netting. Tulle at fabric stores is cheap and despite it's fragility I've only had one still unharmed in more than 10 yrs. All these nettings are guyed out either from the sym or asym apex to teh top of the netting pyramid and have the option to also be gibed out to the four corners at stakes or inner corner loop s w/ UL bungee. They basically resemble tropical netting pyramids as common in the tropics hung over beds.

Under the heaviest vampire pressure a multi layered approach to insect protection is taken rather than solely a shelter amendments approach precisely as approached under heavy vampire protection when on the move hiking. The single firewall approach is not typical. It's multi firewalls of various strengths that cumulatively get the job done for me.

[T.S.Kobzol]

After watching some of the AT youtubers' first few days on the trail in March, hiking and camping in a cold cloud where everything gets saturated by the moisture in the air and after seeing some of the group camp sites tents literally pitched in puddles I would be really wary of just bringing a tarp on a thru hike. Targeted short trips would be another matter but one must observe the several variables before deciding on a practical shelter.

[Dogwood]

I dont have one and dont use one but I've seen a shaped tarp like a MLD Trailstar used quite effectively in heavy wind very wet cold cloudy weather in Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England as a 2 p shelter doing LD hikes. There is more open space though so the footprint size is moot. It's a comparable footprint to a ZP Duplex. Maybe I missed it but I dont hear a ton about condensation with ZP tarp tent shelters.

I've seen OR and MEC shaped and flat tarps used quite effectively in rainy cold wet weather in Canada in Nova Scotia and British Columbia.

If I was considering using a tarp I'd want to more heavily focus on people that effectively do it than focus on tarp naysayers but be open to hear from different perspectives.

There is no doubt using a tarp as shelter effectively in diverse conditions may require different awarenesses and considerations than perhaps a conventional tent design. Use curves apply to just about anything one is not a familiar...as my father would attest while he was teaching me how to drive.

[Dogwood]

After watching some of the AT youtubers' first few days on the trail in March, hiking and camping in a cold cloud where everything gets saturated by the moisture in the air and after seeing some of the group camp sites tents literally pitched in puddles I would be really wary of just bringing a tarp on a thru hike. Targeted short trips would be another matter but one must observe the several variables before deciding on a practical shelter.

Pitching in a puddle using a tent or tarp should be telling of one's awareness. Who chooses to pitch a tent in standing water? Now apply that to using a tarp. It's not a good idea. It's not a good idea to pitch either in a depression. I'd make the case that group sites or more established beaten down routinely heavily used 1 party sites with no platform or raised area can be prone to more depressions. You can witness a lot of these heavy use depressions at AT shelter sites and some CG's. Doesn't it makes sense to set up in an area not prone to holding water or where water run off is likely. It's really a fundamental consideration to CS selection.

[MuddyWaters]

Ive weathered hellatious all night t-storms , and spent 24+ hrs under my little 8oz tarp. Dry and comfy.

Seen a few people in tents flooded on various trails too.

It all comes down to more than if its a tarp or not.

Ive had to dig drainage trenches, or use limbs to divert runoff as well a few times when forced to pitch with no high spot . I.e on sloping ground. Done in advance . Remediated before leaving. Would do same for tent.
Ive seen people in tents flooded on several trails, usually only happens once to drive point of site selection home.

[Dogwood]

Grandmas can even use a tarp on an AT thru. What do you think a shower curtain represents?

[4eyedbuzzard]

You left out at least one more important consideration that impacts why you dont see as much tarp usage on the AT compared to the west - regional skill set variances. Western(west of the Mississippi) U.S. hiking communities trend towards being more liberal more open to trying new ways than east coast AT counterparts... and even though personally from NJ, FL, and GA, trend towards being more trail diversity advanced and traditionally in U.S. History are greater risk takers in regard to adventure and traveling explores than those feathered their nest in the east specifically northeast and mid Atlantic regions. Attend and observe at a ALDHA West and ALDHA east oriented meetings. Every ALDHA West meeting I've attended have a wider range of ethnicities, international and domestic based hikers, age groups, more female hikers as percentage of hiking attendees, topics covered are more broadly ranging and in depth, awards given are more widely based(TC Awards for example), and generally deeper skill sets among attendees.

Efficient diverse tarp use requires a greater number of variables to consider. Where east coaster have it is IMHO hammock knowledge. East coast based hangers generally have deeper skill sets and knowledge of hammocks. If desiring hammock ears tickled perhaps leaning in a little closer when easterners are involved might not be a bad thing?

Jus my 3 or 4 cts.

BTW Slo-go-en any indication of why we have that same issue misspelling tarp as trap so often?

Map showing liberal bias of western US vs more conservative eastern US. Oops wait, that's a precipitation map. Yeah, you might want a tent in the eastern US where it rains a lot more. Occam's Razor...
US av rainfall j.jpg

[Five Tango]

Hammocks are not for everybody and I totally get that,however,I have never pitched mine in a puddle.

[cmoulder]

Map showing liberal bias of western US vs more conservative eastern US. Oops wait, that's a precipitation map. Yeah, you might want a tent in the eastern US where it rains a lot more. Occam's Razor...
US av rainfall j.jpg

Hmm.... I think you're onto something there.

[T.S.Kobzol]

Hammocks are not for everybody and I totally get that,however,I have never pitched mine in a puddle.

Bingo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dogwood]

Map showing liberal bias in Canada. Oops, thats's a Canadian precipitation map demonstrating how much rain falls in British Columbia and Nova Scotia. Those using a tarp in the rain in B.C. and Nova Scotia must not know about Occams razor?


[IMG]https://whiteblaze.net/forum/image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxMTEhUTExIVFhUXFyEbGRgXGB8bGxoYGhoWHh8dGh 0gHSghHiAmGx0aIjEhJSktLi4uGh8zODMsNygtLisBCgoKDg0O GxAQGyslICYtLS0wLy0tLS0tLS0xLS0rLTcuLTctLS0tLi8wLS stLS0tMC0tKy0tLy0vLS0tLysvLf/AABEIALsBDQMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAbAAABBQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAMFBgcCAf/EAE8QAAIBAgQEAgQHDQUGBgMBAAECEQMhAAQSMQUiQVETYQYyc YEUFSNCUpGhBzM0VGJyc4KTsbLR0kNTkrTBFoOio HwJER0w9PxhJSzY//EABoBAQADAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAwQCBQb/xAAuEQACAgECAwcDBAMAAAAAAAAAAQIRAxIhBDFREyIzQYGRsT Ji8EJxwdEFFGH/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/AO63GKFBaaNk0qHwwdWsp1IAhRGwGLPVPDaWVo5ipl aqFPho5LDVN4LDlsRO0264qud9HK2YFOpTalHhgc1VVMhm6Ez1 xbq/otla Vyq1qyJWpIqMUqpddQkE3BgaiPM4x6s2qVeh9K8X M7DA5Pd/XTt8vNXtuAel ZyeUNLwsrTrLUUnUKrRYxAIJBv8Auwb6P08hVy9OrUypTUrsdL MyolIgEsSZ6jpgD009GhUGWp5R6Ph0aZW9VFuTM3NyTJPmcH8C y7ZfLUqbJl6jItUkF6RBYsCi6iZAYTJG0DfY9Y5Ze1alyr jPxeLgVwEJYmu01b7713uavbyJI8P4XbktpLTzxClR7fnDp 8T0OG8KmIE6tMc/rRMe2N 2PWz5lT8Hytg1tdKzfIxzapAKiJA3p9tJPJ4hBB B5Uw9j4lIHSEHML2JICx0jsATqPCPBkeEmNOlpZVGku3M7BQJH n9UGdjj2twjhmlvEowkupLatLaC6uNzsVYXAnpOOKfESogZHKW YBYrUgACCdR7aSzAgAm7RPV/wCG IHNSjlVJFO5akxOp/lb6t1Q2kRqB3sMAB0uDcIpEIlONV9KmpCjSW1BZhVt80XY95xI p6D8OcBxQkMdYIqPBlTezRcEn2md74GOeAI/8LlWF5cvRBnlg6dR3OpiAbADrgzhHG6mrTVSjTpzAAq0yKaBBA s1 YHoPWHY4AApejuWpZmpTp0U0ijTMOA8EvmATLq7AWEwItfEqvA csRJydNp2KaSI9 nHqV0fN1mV1ZVo0ZKkErz5rmBHbqOxO xkvDAN Vjs62De0bavIg XWAIetwjh1P5RslS1jYnLAvJtAYr5xMxfeMD/ABRSeqyfBcvITS48NdHNBI1BTDgEEAi8n2g30lzNSjTWoUWoit zwrHkJEyoDNIiQVkkgWxN0lW7KBzQSR1sAD9QGAIhPRTKLcUKc yTemjb RW1rWjznDb i1AnX4OXLg2 QUBVIggDfe5veAOxE/hYArlb0So3ZEpa W7UaZB0sCQ0ILG4tEaj0gAfL08r4pofA6TlW06zTpgsQLgALE3 HaxnbFrwycsvMQArNuwA1bATcb2G/bAEK2Qy4YA5LLkTBKU1MEb7oJIEmBflPWJPXgeUIkZbLkHr4Sf yw1lODeFWDpUISIZCJnliZ3BJAY9J1GJacFjMKjshYKIDCTG5Y EDysD78AQ/FOEZYMijK0l cHFKnBaQuiDYkhjv02uJD1DhGXqaT8Doqu5 TT1ljlPKDZp9ujsbzm/nj3AEf8RZX8Vofsk/lhhOB5XxWHwah6i/2Sd6nliXwxT OfyVH2uf9cADfEWV/FaH7JP5YXxFlfxWh yT WJDCwBH/EWV/FaH7JP5YXxFlfxWh yT WJDCwBH/EWV/FaH7JP5YXxFlfxWh yT WJDCwBVeHejdCqjMyKPlqqwtOkAFStUVQPk iqBjzNej9FXCihqBiWCURE6unhdAJxM j/AN6b9PX/AMxWx065ibGnokzM64m0HYf6QN8AA/7J5f6I/Z0v/jxRPug8JpU6tOmEQgJqvTQGSYPqqPojfzxrCTAm5i/txmn3TPwlP0Y/ibAFz4HkkbLZZjv4CAxFwUTrEjYbEYOyVJTTWVUmIJgesLH7Qc McBcLk6DHYUEJ9gprj1UqmmAF0GxMm5MyRym0meafaD1AN8BPo r9QwCr0/EOhA4YAjSojULHmNttNgfmnD9HKyqmrLNAkNBAPXlHLbv9uHsy hIt6wuvtHT3iR78AM/BSd9K SgH6yy/uA9 O6WRprMIsnckSTG0k3OHVqgrqmBE3tHee0Ybln2lV77MfZ9Eee/sscAcOqzpRFJ6mBC 3uY6ezaZx58GppcqGY2mBJ7Adh5bbk9TgkAKOgA9wGG6Q1HWR aD0HcjufsHvwAPUy4VfVXxHtIAsTO0i4USfOD3whk6ZfToWFpx EdGMfuTD6czk9FsPNvnH3er7dYwsv61Q/lAe4Ip/eTgAfLWWk8AalAYwBMiQT tYfnnHmYzC0uRhIb1FG57qJPTfyHsw9Qp6qWjaJWexUlQR2uJH bFZzma8TXWauKelTppoql4piXDai2vn1WUKQIBvOAJAZhqriiw Ki5RwdTAw0AyLWDcwM7CbybBin8MVvhPNAqgAAyTTZTqYNT3K6 hTIZehTqDqa15erqWYgyR32JFrDtgB3CwsLACwsLCwAsDvTKsX ksDYr2A iAO9yLk 4DBGFgAcZWkeYIhm4IA9xBH78e/BY9V3X9bV9jSMN8OBAYMRIczpELJANgSSN5v1J6QSXgBjwnG1S fz1B rTpwxlWqc50oQXPziPVAXbSeq98GswAk2A3w1k1IRZEEiT cbn7ScAefCCN6bjzEN 4k/ZhfDE6kr cpX7WAw/hYA5p1AwlSCO4MjHWGqmWRjLIpPcqDjn4IvSV8lYqPqBj7MAP4 WGPBcbVCfzlBH2BT9uFFUdUb3FftlsAVoelGXyaaaxYF62YI0q TYZmqP9cTtbiWltOg9OotP0o2jeewY9MZT6fz8iSPn5mYuB/4qp1xrdXiNNSFLXNxAJmdoIEGfLFs4JQjLrfyVwm3OS6V8HeSz PiKG0svkwg7A38xMEdCCOmM6 6Z Ep jH8TY0fLZhai6kYMp6j2Aj3EEEHqCDjOfumfhKfox/E2KiwufCL5TKqOtKnP5oVCfdsPf7jMYgPR/SaOUZZ1 EgaQQdIpHYH5uoi4sTGJyrUCiTt7J3tsLm AO8N1aoFrknYDc/yHmcNLmdYlDy9XOwjcQeo2PYzNwRh2lSC ZO5O59v8th0wAL4WltbwQbkD1UaRBHfzbvBgS2DsLANWQSiyU dG6j6K RHQXANtxAD45z QD/iYf6A/WR2F 8xU0qTueg7k2A95jHVNgQCpBHSNvdhpuaoB0QT s0gfUNX IYAcoU9Kgbx17nqfeb4byXqz3ZiPMF2IP1RjvMVNKM0TpUn6hO IzO8R8JESkVdpVOpG4BuLBrixI3wAUSQlRVEnUwHtcahPlLRir 1 H04LqVBCgVV13UEAbspEggGHWJHzcTNWlUFaoaeo62WQH9XkAL aWtcKBa4gHvI1amCai1WhqZDEawQ6AQHZQ2vlsbwTpS5InAAta s4zWWdW1N4bhkNPSSpqUhP5Jk2kwYmYk4l2r1VFEAqE e8MeQAC/LykkjeIuSeWGr2QpsyrUurWMhqZ0IrO1NXZrHnaTpvJiSBe1Lm QoVgdQfokHnsJF4AJsbwCR3JwB7Xqsw1I8CYXSAS567zY3i3Sb jHuXapEFlLDdWEG 3MLR56bx06EU6ZnU2/boo7D/U9cdVaQbqQRsRuP8AvsbYAGzGe0j725bolpPsJOny33IHUT1Tz 6kwZUzAnY 8Eje2 9uox2j3AcDV0PQ/m9jHT9 GKPC0RpWw6qBYiCIPdRMgdL4AOwsBZBinydRwXBOnpK9IE3t 47xJNwAxUy51a1bSSADYEEDVH7zf9 OcvmwToYqHBgrIkxeQJNiIPvwThnN1EVZqEBZAk2uSI98xfAHm duun6Z0 4 t/wAIbD I3hlc1Hc6tS0zpVoidQDGR5DSJgXDeeJLACwsLCwAsLCwsALCw sLAGR nH9n kzP aq41WrQpkksqk2mewmP9ftxmHpeoIWQDz5j/ADVbGk1uGIzariwgCABpMiLd4N52A2kHRk8KHr8lGPxJ nwFUkUCFAA8u/XGafdOQHMpI/sh/E2NHyeVWkoRJgbSZsAAL QAHuvJk4zr7pn4Sn6MfxNjOXl04HVb4NlVSJ8GmWkEgL4ftFyR H12w89ZmIDDSBUUGLiYDgzAsTC7Df3YB4E8ZWg6vzijT1K0iV0 CAFiRc2MEk2vOJarlFqFHIZGUhrNBns0WYdLz5d8AOvlkJ1FFJ 7lRP14YrZQqvyMI0gwLKwkEgjYEiRqiRPlgzCwAwa8gad27/ADR1J/d5n3kO0qYUQP8AqfM eBxRFNmZRZrsB0PUgdj1A63iScEI4IBBBBEgi4IPUYAZzCBQXB KkCTFwYHUdfaINgJw3l2dBzoZJlih1CT5Wa1hYGwGHa3Myr0HM fceX/iv qcO1agVSzGABJPkMARPG8xqpwjAmQDTNmbUQAIYjvsYBteMReR zxRDLCdJALC6soYB9Isw2kqBb34IZ2J1lmBktDGVG9iDywAYkR th7I5XLZgByi61sQAVUxNwu0MDuJs2kk4Ajs3xHMM4SmQreEus uQC3MZdLgSpgspItUHWBjhhTYEinLubuI1MxChAZEM2kldRNgB MxaYpVaAzWhURSlJ2LaQB6yAx7Lyf uA63FqjyCdIbYJMrpIJHiBoMoGNt7RvgAerSqlVTm0UxAqVRTW mnKQNQYaiQCu63ncSSHl4jSoMaFNUqu pniES7Rogaj1IAg q0mceHLGAzSab1NmYn1UIEXMCddrQVXEDk6fylYFm1qQmrUdUB SdQPSTUcWi3QbYAtvD/SCkUl2KALOpwRKgTuRcj6zvF4Bg4vQgHxAJ2mQZ7QRM W9jin8Spk0XRfnro5fmq0JJtYDUL4nyQb2PUdfYfqx3GNlGbM8 dbE2CrqCCGVgCCDIIsQQR7iCMcainrGV l1H53l5/X3xDZcGmCtM6FJmwEye5YGdhFumPKtdiPvrEg2hgOZbwQoE3sV MzthoZC4mBP1KYYQRIwNW4erACWUAzANrbQDIWOkRHux7RJCqy jlIBKzOmRPLG48vq7EhHBEgyMcGga8Op0dfKU/fDD7Iw1WRhDs2oqeVQNILEaRO567zHlgzA68zz81LDza4J9w5f bq8sAJcosAESR87YyTJIIuJM7Y9h16hx52b69j9Q9uH8LADVPM KTGzfRNj7u48xIw7jmpTDCCAR54a8Jl9VpH0Xv9Tbj2mcAP4WG BmQLONB89j7G29gMHyw/gBYbzNTSrEXIFh3PQe8wMOYYrXdV6DmPu9UH33H5mAM09IssAi rezZi/X8JrSfaTfGh5jJ1CwZajDYEFjBA3kC0m4kRG9yMUX0gpSpjo Y/zNfF5rVcwGICIVtBn2T1Exc9JsLTI0ZPCh6/JRj8Sfp8B6AgCTJi57nvjNPumfhKfox/E2NLSYE7xf24zT7pn4Sn6MfxNjOXl69HlBymWkAxRpx5HQu2JL Ef6O/gmX/Q0/wCBcSGAFhYWFgDivVCKWawUSfYMQHDuNBPENdwiQXE/NEsWWesAiAN4aLWx16QZvUwpDZbv5tuo9w5j p54gq7AsFYcsdRYluUCdtibH6QwBYaXpHlQviNWX5Tbc2FgBbf rHdrbjEizJXR1UyAYnswhgR3gwe2KfUyaMoUqIAAHQjSZWCLgg wQQZBuMNq2ZpkFKocAkgVOVpKlZ1qCCdMAEpaOpJOAJbiGVZV1 VCkAAslyJLALLR1I7RYzEyGs5SVqbtAk0zzDcjS1pG4hj5XOOc lxmsyVvE TZl0pUXnKldQ5gFvzkwQu0SAQSWQKZZlNdtbJJBZNRRjpLQV21 grMesIwAfk00VEcxYlZ7U3iQT cEY/m4k/ioAgoYQcwX8oEMIPYneZPn2imzSggXvEecmBHe5G28iJvBtOnU TLtAZSXk3jSkidAtEqNrXLHywANw4/IpRI1KVXRqvpZV1AEm kkb7j6oFXgT0qBdaoqm7yyQxVmLEmG6BiYA6eeI7jVRaipQIBN Zirpf70OdmZSNImAlo TbbBEsi1dDMPERgYhuYqAGgxMREbw29hgCS4BTUsRBFQANrUky pZSVIMgA6Yt01bTfrO8LPjAopVS2pyqjUycxI1kGOYnlFyNouc R3Bl1Zh2U8wZEA7BJdz7CKmkjro8pF0doBPYTieRX9VroQC9YM gMQD3EmPsjCQEAqNJU9GXVHsJPtsZF 1sRZoVMw/iUyKR kGJRXMQjgDTUDSZJ2tEEqcGFK8BK1Bpa2qixZLsVFxDp0Y2gBt zBxba5MxaJp6ocg7IcWAqjLvpUlZpxI1AFgREQIABt36WmUekZ 1LAPUdG9vn0n9 2InhvDa6VdWtadGI8MAEsb3Yxy9IAPS 8L3xLjVPKClTrVCz1CVViBzMBN1WOnRR0xU extg2o94kDX1HQshvnTuo/6mwO25ExghFAEDYYjsrmqFQxTqr4gGo9Hg2llMHSYjaLCIgQbT q30tZunZvMfy6ee5g7TsdwsInHmoTEiYmOsCL/aPrwJPcLCwsAIjA/waPUYr5br/h6fqkYIwsAMeMR66/rLce8bj9w748ybBpqAyGNiL8osIPUG7frY6zRsFBuxi24HU UDY94x4cqvzZQ/kwPrEQfqwBQ MqdDQJhsx/mcxi6V JaW0mmdgd9tU t0Ebm5sCemKdxK1NiSLNXk7D8JzGLw epgwXHSPOdo7yYFupA3IxZKTcIrpZTDxJ nwPo0gGCJGx39 M0 6Z Ep jH8TY0tTIkXBxmn3TPwlP0Y/ibFZcW7g2cYZPLkKt6dNVkmWOlRZSBPU tsJwVUq1lqI1RgtPmkKJkkCNW5BA1GQSoAaehwN6P5dRk8vTUT qoox1c2mUW/NPsC7dhAOJFuHqNJpwhXaAIMiOa2/wCVv7QSCAYDgHjXERl6LVCpYiyIN3c qonuepsBJMAE464cSo8NhBWyz1QAbEbwbdOkgTisce4uGrOsEr STUiqCzuecOyKLtGkKIE3PRhgAbJUWVSajaqjsXc9Nbb6R0UbD 2SbknHWb9Qjvy 9iBPunC4MDUdKlSrQ8NkaAFB0nXSsXclSwAcEaAZ9hlcQK6jBQ wiM2jTECrVNwtp0gT7MAPYGbOLq080zG0X8i0A 6cE4AbI1a1R9Ncpo06VCqRzD1iWVjMhh7ukziUrOZzUVbPcrm1 MxYamkEiVIaCYB9UmfZ5gyCa2cemKao3MaqBeVS12Acgld/CDmewwKmWfLECq5qIYVapsQzfNcbCWiGFjIBAMF3MxkpgqxUqZ WJGmRFipFj1BkbWtg1QjNSVolFozUdmRbxzQOYneR3sL//AFjniGeFNQGao5IOimrHU3cC4t0JY6RNyBiM8Srs1aqPMU0LH9 ZUKx7FB88dZVUUmNWpt2fWWbcwWe5i8CbDbEHR7wzKPBJWTPq0 1Ph0xC8iW7aZY3Y3gCFUisGW2k6t4IK2k7Ei5sbfWRvjn4ZTpA IGJZuXSiuWMUjpC6gzGaUlQDb7BX8XSfAoVFCqBrzGhJCgCYVi xaI9YKCQxkCAZSbOZTjHmwn0faodbanVTWaBKsoKqiwJUiSVdj 1tYkHE/R4hXkRS8RS4XUIWBIDNuZ03my3UjqMe8I4VSFCmkNyb8zAlwun UZM3W8Hvgv4CQ1LS5CIWJHVietvMm218Tao40y1XYPnqvhFi8t TYBEpoBOrmZiSYgx VFtpxGHidY31lR0ACkx0LEqb9wLDa 5mMxwtG8UsTFQCQYhWUEB1tYx18hivuIYqSJAm0wQSYIkCQYOO oUyniHOKtcgmpxOsZ1HUCpUqnJIMXVpLKw3Bn/Qjzj2dy75cr4qM7soEzqLTcBZBBC6pXcAmd7xdXilIEqG1MDBV AXIPZtIOn9aMR1ZGrPTZkFNKbF1UkFy5DLqaLLZmsCZm5G2OnF eRTHPJJqR2aemxUFA2oCJ0kzeI7k 5vLB2U4jVVSq1AUJkdY2iDJiItEAE7HA1esEUsxgDc44QS2oDS NjIu38oPfzx00mUxnKO6YuN5mu41 O0rzBTpFNivMAw0mJiAR1YeWBkzIYJUltQ9VjJcEahE3YMJYEd L4Jr5pERnZgFX1jvEdPbNo3m2I3hdJvDUuCrEEkdQznU0 eon6h541cIt2q2E5yatsvHo9xtnZaVUcxTUrk3canG0AeqAR7G 95fEOP06boohw0ElTsh2YQDM9B1E QMXxjJirk6ddRdKQJ09aekaoj6NyOu4i K7TpEkKq3JgAdSbDFeLBDJcnt1RryZp46it jLvkfSKhVdaYeHYSARvv126MI35T2xLYqvBvR5WLGvTBZKoKke qy HTIExzBWtPUqehIxY8wdR8PuJbyXaPInb3N2xkmop901Qba3Fl Yl 9l/N7 839mnth/CwscHRSMx6lT86v/mczi4VcqhMsASe57du3u7A9MVYoDTrSPnV/wDMZrFhzHCkZtRZgYAtHSe4kzaZJmBjp8kUw8SXp8BwEWGMy 6dUAzKSQPkhufymxpqLAA7CMZr90z8JT9GP4mxyXF49GKcZTL9 SaNMknqfDXEniP8AR38Ey/6Gn/AuJDAHFWkG36XB6g9wf 98Z3xuiKGY8FlV6VSGWiwI59T81CpYJUgSE5RPqkEEnR8QXpJU 8NqdVQfEEhLTLQQFNuoZjBIHLPzbSnRxOGpUVLh1ChUps3wiqt RixDK3gVCECiaisBLgQp1KVJUAjBeboa66uH5RSAIgEuHNTlZg dJAsQNMqxcTBIL9LxGFVlr1Qj1DVC FTOmPDZ6Z1t31XgWB0mYxzmsrWZ9dOoWIRZSqJlSahADBiQ15E sQZghfWCr5EOeld4Cq8RZDp0aggBrPqA0KWKho dJBaLQoJuYBlOCLzV2Jv4gXfZVpoQP8TMf1hiFrL4zRzK4AFVA dLtTknS6OIKlgRqBNi2lrzgyhxJaFVjUBWlVuXKmEqKt9ZAgK1 NRzTAKEHcYmGzOOITlj2JzOtCGUDrswMeqbEwbGBeOwOK9m64y wTTqak7aVSDrpMZhI jIKiYKmBcerImtTI1DMo9NrkNUWDN/WgmI baxwLmM7QqhtAFZnEFgStMAG0VPIgXSWkDaBFkqaMmFyjLuhFF 9QB0lZ6NEj2wSPtwBmqjVuWgdmhql9Ck6kgMPWYE3VTI6lbS0t ILUprVqfJO2nT4rbhWYa2cklTERIvpnUCRifzOYpimdJWFEgLc DRBAgbbY4jGzTmzuOyW51kuHLTJeS9QiDUaJjfSIsq2Fh2kyb4 Oy9MNURd4Or3L17esV uRtIH8fsjn3af4iD9mO8s7iopJRBdSfWsRO50gXC9DePfZLlsZ MbvInImSdL3sHH/Ev81/gwvhM/exq85hf8XX9UHzjDFairIKgY1IhwZ1AgGeUDlkiRIHXB4OKD1B gUJu51dhEKPd1PmfdGInjno 2YcN4zKumGQCzxsCwIIG9hvqMyIGJ3DdfVB0 t0nEo5kk1uUWrkvBimFChRZQAAB2AFh7sN4mvSsjxKYtqCMT3h ise4lW rELi6LtHmZYqM2kc1aYYFTscNF3EArqncraLdif9f5F/AfFCdIUSNbBSQYOmCTEdwCPfjtK3RWiNoU/GqeJBFJWJQajDOCQahGxFzp97XlSJ7JZelGuu in23Z4NwBvp6FuncXjnhlBWqIrWUkCNtyBAxMPxej8IRUoUtIY J4jAaoWxKmLKoDEXuB03OubeNdnBeVtluKKl3pP/AIiwU11IHRSodZKMIkEdR81otP74ER/AeDLSd3sTqbSIugYk6TM3AMSDcX2OJp2AEkgAXJ6Rip5nME5pH pZghKul7mV5TpYEG6rpXaBLE7ROPOhbTSZ6EqTTZa6tTSJ36AD cntjyhTgXuSZPt/kBA92GMvULNLjS0cqnt1I7n7R5TcvFZYLCwsLAFJzNQinVAMS1 f/M5nvi0V8tVLWqQsD2mJmYAiRa3edwMVfMUyadWIkNX3/8AU5nFrNSr4gGldBsdyQYmx2jzIGBFK7CkBAEmTFz388Zp90z8 JT9GP4mxpmMz 6Z Ep jH8TYEl89HfwTL/oaf8C4kMR/o7 CZf8AQ0/4FxIYAWIfjtJ3gppPhwSrAEOxKwtzE2kdiUM7zLVHCgk7ATiD4 5xKnQppTreIDmWZNVMairMD0HMYso0gna0AkSlYboruZq5tKkU qa1aTEfKAUgTOgkwwixKnTIPKSATbEbmWzK1Q1U6XBRAU0ryvU YIwCNoYB2YMjgzBIiwxNcVzGXoZipTVakNDuKQTSHK1EiGMSVJ Jt0TEBmuNU6tWl4S1DNJHWmwXxKhpwUVQhKi705Y2UKxMC4uSl pTcdupkzNb09 hZVpDNZejUICVGpq6st/DZlVrGxKzYg sN8A5WqX8MtEgNMba1IUx5etHtxM8LyxpUaVMkEpTVSRsSqgSP qxCcOENVH0ajr/zarAf4WTHE0c8LLdodXIUg2oUqYb6QQT9cYcrJYkKpbzj6z /HNWudQRELtGogECFmLk2kmYHXS3Y49yuYDzZlZTDI0alMAwYJG xBkEi KzaR W4bNJYYLyqw0qPvg0lWJMkkEA9AYuMWTIZjxaSPEa0BI7Ei4Ps Mj3Yi8n97T80fuGOMpmRSZ6DFVWoC1EuYBdy5emTtuQwG5DtAO g47g9zLxULja8iX4fWD0kYGZUX8xY/bOPc9l/EpvTkDWhWSJiQRMdY3wxwrSqaNQLBmJggyWYuT/wAQPvwdi0wPmRnA JtTplVRQRylJtSqLE9ASCCCIiRpNtU4KyXGqqypSmyra0oR1ge tMKVGIxXAqZo9qon3ZegcP0UgQd9z7Tc/biNKLu2mtkyUrelCKyqaVSWBIuvzdMzzWHMLid8LhnH2erpqKq hrLBJhuxJ3npYXtecVnOmcwoHzKTT/ALx0j/8Am2O8RoR1/sztWWLj3CSS1VJZjBZd7AAcv1be3qYxXAwOxxJ8K4ytAEVFMM3 M4d2MmADoYm5O k37YikqFi5Igl2YjtqJb/WfsuQcI2tmM2iXeid4Hz2WLqAG0sDqUxIBE7jqCCQRIN7EG CMLHadGcCyuZdC2qkwqBTo08yliCoKuYAIJB5gDbrE4CyVZw5p 1CoYqdK0506FcAq3eCFuYBGwHNhziVPXV0m4CKQp9XmdtWpdjK IwE7X88XnhfDKFXJJTRVRYJ5B6tWTrPt1lp7ycX9rKLU5bp/wX48euNLZoqmZzNRlUAa9MQsTyggkROlgBJhwYi0RiW9GMoatY VHBhBqE7arqu1oAk6RtbtgnK jbBqqNUBPhEKQCPvgdQT7INgcH jHD6lIVPEUKSRsQQYnY /rGIy5cbjLR dS3Hinqjr/OhNVKYYQf5fUemG1qFbN7A3fyPY/Yfsw9jxlBEESDuDjAbT3CwxdO7L9ZX Y 0efR5WBEgyDsRgCo6T4VYgTBr7f8AqM1ixjiA8Tw9Jm32if8Av 2HtiCy5ilmCbAGtf/8AIzeLCM7T1BNXMwkb3G8g7YAIxmf3TPwlP0Y/ibGmYzP7pn4Sn6MfxNgC ejv4Jl/0NP BcSGI/0d/BMv hp/wLg8nADNbmZV6Dmb3HlHvYT qe B JZI1HoOP7KrqPfSUdSB7yD7AcEZUSC53a/sXoPqvHcnD AM69N8kKGYNeGIrxqbmOl1FNFRQAbEamgx86Jm1V4HVNHM0qqk HTQaidQJHKafMSolQQlMzBHOe2NR9KOKU6ZpU2qBHcsyy iQgvzAiLsvl03ImocWzQbM0GDhxpQFpZo1LmI5mAN2077a47Y1 QyOUNDRjz40rkS W40xAZ6UowDLUov4yaSBBPKr3mRpVhF5GAMzWpanr0mAZXHjJB UmkQq62Ux6pAfXHqhxe0A0 IaMmlNSVrqi0yoE1Aaap4hRYOorTJcAA6uWJnAGdy6BqNWiWqa gZ59fiUiLmWJLFtQp2N/GHUKy8PdFEHplaLVkbZl5 dSWPPQ9TV9XiJ9eOs/l6gq LTTWCgVwGAblYlSoMKfWaZYdMR/CKpdstBGoI s7zoAR1H 9KGfyMWQYoPTK/ks0IRHVqbFRpV45oHzSCVYwDIBkbkRGDHUEQQCD0NxgmnQV6QR 1DKQJB8tveDcHocR aoVKCF9fiUkBLBh8oqi5IYWfSOhGoj5xNiANVy6JURgiqfFpEM AAQWcU2APmpj9c98Thrt4puNCwrDqGIBDeQMgX yDiJ4jllqQj6tLSp0sVPRrMpBHqdDj3guYchqNQRUSU1sAVqqQ GHKpEWcTtBmAAwGLIPyMfFQf1DmYWMy6RZwtWe5XkIHs00ifIj vcvAmcqNFOowhqT6Xi806hKG9tnVGJjZPO3fEcp4tN6ZYqGEEi JjqLgiCLHyJ23xYY2RuTYuXqn 0aVHamAAv1ga46FyMEYYy1RpZKgAdDB0zpYESGWbgEdLwQwkxJ IQTqgEhfWIBIXrzEWFr36XwFNs8w3VEHUPYfZ/03 vvjyhmVfVpM6W0t5ER/oRfDjuACSQABJJMADuTiSD0YWIccQqLdaY8AfOMhwL82iLoLDo SJMWvJaWYeuIPVQQSPI6jv3xLi1zQoBoy1ar31BVA3iAAI6nUG I/OPvvfoxSalTNOoIYuTHaYIWep0wfe3bAHBfRqkaGsEio7eIlQR yHUShSOnf6QYgkgxiYNTnKmnJccyzYMNmJjYj53/8AnG9sc5c2qKglsj0cGHR3nzCcgvKXknWS1/on1R5DTFu5OCcQuX4joKUFK1D3Un72NyRciNl9bVpN5xNYzmgW FhYWAFhhqZW6e0r37kdj9h6xMh/CwBXeFGaWYPnW/wAxm8Tpy66tUX33MWEbTGIDJ1qSq6VaeYDeLWnTRrwVavVYXRI YFWkXO C6PFaKuxAzJJAscvXNha005/8AvzwBM4zP7pn4Sn6MfxNi9fHdL6OY/wD1q/8A8eM 6Jmw9dGVagGiOem6XBJMB1BNiNu AND9HfwTL/oaf8AAuCc1eE lv8AmDf65C/reWI/0eoEZXLlGj5GnY3X1F6dPcRgmhmLl3GkGynddI6z0k9SACNPbA B2FjxWBEgyMe4Ag/S7gQzdCFC Kh1UmPRoIIJ6BlJU9pBgxjMVyiqrLoGughFaiUBHg66krYlW0k GBHQdASdqxVePcPUeLWRT8IaaYYAy0jWogMpJUEqATHSwY4ux5 nBUU5MSk7M DGjmArgPTNMoGeqaemSHpOasGDNNqZN2MUiZ1XkqZpKAwl6qHx qjCiaa1hSYMwHKAxuHGndqakyARjS63B8uzajRTVBGoLDQYkah BglVt SO2I/iHo5QhSAwK1EIOomCWCn1p3DEew4h5E23RU Hl5MqGaoA5mpTFkq1Hpyp28TKI58oJXVbr7cSfDeFqzJmKuXpU qgEpTRVilIgyyjmcyQW2AsvVmOPoXl6tOmS1RSsAEaJASQEaUO rSJXmkreIN8Er6Kxdc1mFuD65f3RU1CCLfug3xW ZogmopMaynqAdpHvBI/wBMDcdE5eov0hp9zkKf34nKfBYEeK0STYLMkk9Qe/bCq8CRhpd6jCQSJUbEEXCg7jEHZWs4eUn6PN/hv/pHvx7w9FdqzMYXUqK0xLIG1EHyLFfIo3a1jynB6JU6kLczA6mY ggMwgiY2G0YPy2Sp0/vdNE/NUD9wxKdMryQ1xormdygrU61NaZc1EIMCJ1KVHMSF 3cHriG4Pk IpSAr0GrVA0Eq1NSU5Rqu gmdRIBECAJjF7qjS6v9Lkbt1Kn6yR56/IYIx1rZWuGhVMo a4RWLLW8MUzGlvEIlluR6hb1DJ3sC LLw/TQUUogDUWb5uotJk9zqnYAdMd1aDVHceIyaYClAJHqsZLAi5iR G2nvh2llHVQq1IC7Qov7ZJmeux88cttlkMcYciF45k6VSl8mwp 6SzK4NzclwoALMJJMDqBFsQNP0Y1qGesheQYd/EggiNCXGqdiAp8p2sdCpVqrUJVUY1BTYklpUGCEFoADMA3cSVk 4ls rQrIup1awts3KSZI5ROogX5bAmBjqOSUeRMscZO2ih kFWnSJilUolTdWIbWDOkpzFgSYAHUgjSDfBno7wUmjTFTogBVR JJAEgTaPM2274f9IciGzSMUmroifm3aAVB2YwQZ2AW JTguQakxgS mG5pVSTqj2iS0R8 3zibJ5W4JGeOJPK9tiXoKKaQYAGwFwB0VRE 76oEABZvOU2GoamIgNTgh2UmAGUgECdtQgyR87EhTo3ljqbv0H 5o6fv8zgLidNGYI2lhUEVEcAqaaySSCR7N/nTBi1BrFwZGPiVW/tGsL2VRHU952sd uJLAvC6pakjEhrespkMASAw9og /rgrACwsLCwAsLCwsALHFWmG39xG4Pkcd44q1Aon3ADcnsMAMVM wVhTGo2U9D7e0fbaLmMUT7qtPSMt1 STuT8lc4v9OjYloJYQeojsPK59uM 6urD4MNx8pEm/8AZWNjPt/ 8AWTg/FFOUoqq1SRSRSy0nIEKoaCFgkX26jEmvFEAgU6wA2Hg1P6cVvg FSouUoFKyU4p1IVyAHfUAgM/Nk3I7jEvUqZ3SWHgsAZTRJLLpeJkxc6GsepHzZa6OLUk9SIsIb OU5kU66nutGoL Y0wfeDjz40I2Sq486NRT9YQg/UMDVRngrc9ASogkmFfnkjl9W6xJ btc4dptnBLMaHh JMkmfBlib2GoLF9rYl4Puj7iwilxgHejmF9tFjPsgH7YwNR4kV ZmNPMMGJJXwWtEBdPKN1AmSb9scZsZoDxKdRNIVzLMNBlgyNtZ Qljf ZRq51hKNliPmnUYZgVkGxtZxa 22CwX pe4sOHFlj73X9ngv/ThmrxQHwz4Vcc0sDRew0t5QeaNsBmtnYqOhpVFmF08xDDSrDcC zhiRO oSLRK8LzJdId0LgsCEI a0bTY7SOhMdMczxaVdp/sxYHSz4RzppVvDaSfkqnK5MmBouGkk3sR5nBXxqv8Ad1/2NT nB OKFZXVXRgysAVZTIZSJBBFiCLziokD NV/u6/7Gp/ThfGq/wB3X/Y1P6cFZfMo8lHVgDB0kGD2Mdcd1agUFmIAG5JgD2nAEXR4mFD/ACVcjUSvyLyZ5j0j1iwvHT24Xx0Ttl64/PpsPq0q2JbAXEqhXRzhQSQZYKSSDEE9t4/lGJSt0ADN51nRlioJFoy9QQ3QyQYvF4ntgxOLKQCaVcGLjwXMH t6uI/INntCnVQqAoOaZ1MTuGFtOm4tv5Y6dc/BlqAMKZkxqldQ29WJA6 fa/sN/qj7kWPHiWlmZaVZg0EjwnB1CxIlIMjTuRtgkcWX 7r/sX/pxH5WrnXdTFLQBzH5rTpIanBJI3F43kbwO8u b8YoXoFQVZlklwjSLfRWVbSSDqhhaJxDwV pe4sdfPKWaadeGVRIovIKlz9He4IPlh2lxYQNVOtPX5Gp9fq9d/fgHLZrNVFDK1DTqXqZ6kgwTcnRAm6setj6KucZ3VWpWZJIM6bU y6 TRJgjZgeuHYfcvcWMtVDVzX8GqDpCgtTqSAuu kUyCeZoGrr0wb8YKrKUpVyPVb5J9rnVdbnVv31E3jA3jZwsF15 fULMoe8kIRI0gzpFQxbcbjBuT F618XwdGnm0zOq 09NvrN7QYeGlepe4B I8XqkaaNKoD9N6LkDbZYv7yNj5YCzFdjDeBULgRASoQQxGqS1P 8le wFwCrWalVVhKsGEkSDIlSVYW6hgQR0IIxwmbpklQ6llMMAwJBO wI3GKSSF4RxB01ipTr6S5KA0nJUctpC3BbUQOgt2xI/Gq/3df8AY1P6cH44oVVdVdGDKwBVlMgqRIIIsQRecAC5fiiPUFMCo GKlgHpusqpQG5AFi6288G4ja/4ZR/QVv48riSwAsLCxzUcASf8Av2YAVRwBJ/79mOKaEnU2/QfR/wCvn/2fEpknU242H0f5t5 4dSXsALGe/da/8t/vP/axoWM9 61/5b/ef 1gBzgj0UyuWV0cjRUbla5isjxBMklwrfqx1jDtKhkCWVVrTcaQ RDFab1YAmCdMw3sAMYonDeL5gUqcV6qjQDCuyiSBMAEAXwT8c5 n8Zr/tX/qwBcqK5F5C02VgKmlFMJopVGIMgaVWUCi1gANokWrUy1PWPg9U gpUltYgqtBiROmDqRhtIkrPNqAq/xzmfxmv 1f8AqwvjnM/jNf8Aav8A1YAveY D0a1SmtPWXgMdYlTVJBkaZUQA0ixUO3QamIyjqxenVALJU1Agy 9QVXP2hm0Cx1qQOcjFIHGszJ/8AE19h/av5/lY9fiuYMTmKxgyJqMYNxIvY***zwBclqZAnWEqlGqM99i8pUMI b3BnYEgxcwMS U4Vls5T8VkfSzNys3rAOSCw7kafyoAUkjGa0uNZkj8Jr7n 1foT Vjv45zP4zX/av/VgDT39FcuX18 qCAZuNQANyPKfaTj2h6LZdWRgG5PVBaQIDAR2N5kQZVTuJxljc azMgfCa x/tX6afysN0 OZooD8KrzI/tX lHftgDWavozRZlZi5Km3Nb1tUERBE6txs7AyDGGk9EcsOjmxF2 kkMoU6iRLGBue574zL45zP4zX/av/VhfHOZ/Ga/7V/6sAavw3gFGg2tA0hdI1HVAtsTfpG xjbDXpLXoKo8cPBDDkEypADKRvBB6XETIicZU3GszI/8TX6/2r/1YCynHM01asGzNY GyhPlGlQ1NCYMzc4A0I0MjU1BUravDNQjUFGlA45r3F7CDcho6 47qfF4UPodVVnPKIAbSjMYXcS uwIlnMb4pXxzmfxmv 1f rA e4xmAjOMxW1KjaW8RpFpsZ8h9QwBdHo5FQislYAoUBEFhq8PUo AE7ECSAbwNuU7L1ss1RswqP4gdUdS8KWh1UAnlYgCd7Bt4xmXB fSLOOoLZuufkaTffW9ZlJJ36nEn8c5n8Zr/tX/qwBb8mctWY0mo1VDlFkuZI8EurINIYclFVtDGVkSBjh0yrMy E5DEKWSqCrQ60ARaNUEECBBR9NhLU747zWuPhVeNM/fX3kflYafj2a8dE FV9JpuSPFfcNSAO/Zj9eANVy/C6GbpB2RkBJGkNAhSUtG6wCV7BrROHH9FMsSh0kaI0ibCNQEAj aCBHZV7YzD45zP4zX/av/AFYay3G80ZnM17MR99fYH87AGpH0Ry0AEOYBHrXuyMbx1Kwe4Z l2MYfzXo7RqMGY1CQ2oQ5EEgA7XPqqbzBVSIIxj68fzfwcP8Kr 6vC1T4r76JnfvhngHpFnKlJWfN1ySqmfFbqoJ2PfAGwt6KZcsH 5tQBAMiwIUWtbaQBYSYjHVD0Xy6MjANKFdN/oFyBtcS0nuVU7icZLluO5ovVBzVeFYAfKvYFFPfuTgn45zP4zX/av/AFYA1mv GUf0Fb PK4ksYlS9IM1TqeIteoWCaQXOuAxloDyBJRb WCv9t89/f/8ALp/0YA2CrUjzJ2Hc45p0r6mgt07L5D fXy2xjlH00z128e5JE HT2DEAepYW2w7/ALb57 //AOXT/owBseFjHP8AbfPf3/8Ay6f9GF/tvnv7/wD5dP8AowBseM9 61/5b/ef 1ivf7b57 //AOXT/oxWvTP0nzVXwvEq6o1RyIN9HZfLAH//2Q==[/IMG]


Grandma Gatewood used a shower curtain tarp set up as lean to or A frame for an AT thru hike. She used what she had. She could have used a tent. She rose to the task of using a tarp because she had to make the effort. She was driven. She was a hardy soul! She wasn't so accustomed as many of us to a life of comfort and convenience. Most here aren't driven enough to have to make the effort. They are soft out of comfort and convenience because that's what the AT and LT infrastructure and uber analytics provide.

Eric Ryback, cited as the first TCer used a tarp set up as a lean to with two sticks for most of all those 7900 miles including nearly 2200 miles on the AT. Why? He had to make it work. He had to make the effort. He could have used a tent the whole TC if he had really wanted but was on a super tight budget! He didn't have the comfort and conveniences AT hikers now do.

Guess they all must have been doing it wrong since they didn't choose a tent?

On the TGO Challenge across wet windy Scotland those thru hiking not from the U.S. you'll see a fair number using a tarp. Why? Yes, Scots and other UK hikers are more comfortable with those conditions. But it's also because Scots, Irish , Welsh are hardier in some ways than coddled U.S. counterparts. We dont want to hear this shart when we're the ones having to make honest inventories of why we do what we do.

The pt being made is a tarp certainly can be used very effectively in the rain when one brings their tarp user skills up to the task! Many U.S hikers don't want to make the effort. They find it simpler to turn their minds off which can be said about many things...in this case by plopping down a tent or receding to the mouse boxes on the AT. Those having regionally limited backpacking experience, LIKE MANY ON THE AT, are some of THE most coddled hikers in the U.S. That's one of the reasons why NEWBS abound on the AT. It's NOT just about precipitation maps why you don't see as many tarps! Just like Tipi Walter says, inclement weather hits ATers tend to run for the rat boxes or into town. Coddled! They dont want to make the effort because they don't have to... and when they dont have to, they do not.


It's the same thing when ATers or LTers or others accustomed to uber analyzed hikes with uber analyzed frequent resupply opps thru the JMT expecting the same thing to exist. Using a tent can be giving in in part to a cookie cutter follow the herd mentality.

Colorado Rob, having diverse experiences, whether he uses a tarp or not, was able to organize JMT hikes because he was open to different agendas. He went NOBO and HAPPILY made it work for him BECAUSE HE WAS WILLING TO AJUST and ADAPT. Most dont want to venture far from their comfort zones. He was. He had much fewer issues getting a JMT thru permit as a result which OMG so many have an issue.

Tarps not being seen as often in the east can't simply be explained away because it can be wet!

[4eyedbuzzard]

...Tarps not being seen as often in the east can't simply be explained away because it can be wet!

Um, yeah, actually it can. As long as one doesn't over-analyze it and commit the logical fallacy of "appeal to extremes". People like Grandma Gatewood and Eric Ryback are outliers (extremes) as hikers, as well as from a different time (like 50 years ago). Grandma Gatewood couldn't afford a (cotton canvas) tent even if she wanted one. Eric hiked in cotton clothing. Are all those today who can afford a lightweight tent or who wear synthetic clothing today just not skilled or tough enough? Or are they just using the gear that both Gatewood and Ryback would have used if they could have? Colorado Rob is, from what I've read, a highly experienced LD hiker and his personal choice might be to choose a tarp over a tent because of his high level of skills. Most people probably will not develop their skills to that level - ever. Most will likely not have the time, and most probably don't even want to devote that much time. Citing such examples is as pointless as comparing the average hiker's pace to Skurka's and then passing it off to people just not being skilled or tough enough to develop themselves into a professional hiking machine.

I would imagine that there are more tarp users by percentage on the PCT vs the AT. But according to most gear surveys I've seen, tent users outnumber tarp users on both trails. Maybe there's a huge influx of eastern hikers out on the PCT?

Can a tarp suffice as well as a tent? With proper skills, yes, in most weather conditions, but not all. But most people don't have those skills. Nor do they want or need to. It's you who want them to - not them.

As to cultural/regional differences, yeah, there is probably a little influence in gear choices. But westerners choosing tarps because other westerners do, or Scots because other Scots do, is then no less a follow the herd mentality. Someone who toughs it out with less than ideal gear for their skill level just because others can and do is just following a different herd.


But then again, Tipi Walter, who you also mentioned, has skills that surpass most hikers. Yet I don't know if I've ever seen a pic of him without a nice Hilleberg tent when out on a hike. Maybe in his younger Tipi days.
But, ya know, he hikes in a pretty wet climate...

So, HYOH. And as MAGS might say, you don't have to HMHD (Hike My Hike Damnit!)

[cmoulder]

Try a tarp in the Adirondacks in June. Quite educational.

[Zalman]

Y'all talk like it's not wet in the Northwest or something. We literally have a rainforest here. The region is famous for being incessantly damp.

[Slo-go'en]

Y'all talk like it's not wet in the Northwest or something. We literally have a rainforest here. The region is famous for being incessantly damp.

So, what's the most commonly used shelter out there? Tent or tarp? Bug season? I think I'd opt for a tent.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Y'all talk like it's not wet in the Northwest or something. We literally have a rainforest here. The region is famous for being incessantly damp.

Absolutely agree. There is a bit of a difference in that spring thru early fall, when most thru-hiking is done, is the driest season in the Pacific Northwest (not saying it still isn't wet), which has a pretty pronounced rainy season that peaks in winter. The east in general has less variance, a much less pronounced rainy vs dry season, but the rainiest time is March through August, coinciding with AT thru-hiker season. I can't speak to the bug issue in the PNW, but bugs can be a big issue on the heavily wooded AT, especially in late spring/early summer.

So, what's the most commonly used shelter out there? Tent or tarp? Bug season? I think I'd opt for a tent.

It would be interesting to hear from those who routinely hike in different regions of the west as to their preferred shelter. But I have to say, most pictures I've seen of the PCT thru-hike bubble feature a lot of the same tents, packs, etc. you see on the AT. In fact, it's hard to tell the difference between the overcrowded campsites if it weren't for the different vegetation and terrain. There's obviously some folks on both trails using only tarps, but they are definitely a minority.

[Dogwood]

Dont totally disagree. Yet, people don't want to make the effort! That's on them not all on the tarp as a 'bad' choice. They dont make the effort because they don't have to because folks gravitate towards the familiar, what we perceive as simple.

Lets be real. Many on WB are easterners with the main focus the AT. The AT is easy in many ways with it's massive uber analyzed and available infrastructrure. That ease creates a wider mindset of ease, comfort and convenience and it also influences ease of shelter choice. That mindset of familiarity, comfort and ease carries over to expecting it elsewhere and repeatedly.


Grandma Gatewood(REALLY?) and Eric(Eric by his own in person accounts, he was a kid) were not highly skilled, as if it takes a great amount of effort to use a tarp effectively. That's an excuse, an excuse so not to have to make an effort. Fine, don't make the effort, but don't blame it all on the tarp for the tarp not being the choice in the east and specifically the AT or LT.


Damn well right HYOH. Use what shelter you want. But do not imply a tarp is a BAD choice because it rains.

If you want to talk about effort look at the extent hammockers make. They make hangs as shelters adaptable to a wide range of conditions. That community always is advancing, evolving, not afraid. They don't get complacent. There's always something new coming out of that community. If we dont ever move beyond AT norms we become complacent. That's part of what we're dealing with- complacency.

[Alligator]

I have used a basic flat tarp with an inexpensive, light bug net (Sea to Summit) many times in buggy conditions. Never lost any sleep. No need to overthink.

Same here, up and down the AT, Spring through Fall. Groundcloth, 6 stakes, some line, and the tarp. You practice setup at home just like you would a tent.

I think most people are simply ascared to try it. And ascared of the daddy long legs too!

[Feral Bill]

Try a tarp in the Adirondacks in June. Quite educational.

Same as sleeping in a shelter. A net is an easy ad on.

[cmoulder]

Same as sleeping in a shelter. A net is an easy ad on.

I was eaten alive inside a Borah bug bivy. Better have a tent-type bivy such as MLD. Put a tarp over that and for a very similar weight you coulda had a Zpacks plex tent already.