I see some resemblance but walking through some spindly stunted common pines is not quite the same as walking through a bamboo forest, now is it?
C'mon TW and Hosh. Both of you are damn well aware you can have smiles with the miles or smiles without the miles. Getting outdoors can entail greater mileage or mostly camping. Different strokes for different folks. HYOH.
"Getting outdoors on a backpacking trip---and achieving bag nights---is the goal."
That is a worthy goal amigo that shouldn't be demeaned especially by us who who've been slapping at key boards and doing day hikes while you got out for 17 whole days in the Heart of Darkness.
"The drooling fascination with daily mileage might be exciting for some fringe Whiteblazers---but not for all. The questioning plea "exactly how many miles?" might excite statisticians and lawyers---if verified with the proper affidavits---but holds little interest to me."
@ TW Actually, it's not only fringe hikers or WBers that concern themselves with timeframes, including avg MPD. Some are trying to hike sections or from TH to TH. That requires knowing and planning for daily mileage. Many need to know their miles even if they aren't maxing out their daily miles or total trip miles! For example, if one is hiking the AT through GSMNP they are required to stay at shelters. Some are trying to 'complete' something. Totally respect if you define completing differently, accomplishing a different goal, but we should respect those that have different definitions and goals. For some it's not only about number of bag nights. HYOH
To all the "It's Not About The Smiles, It's About The Miles" crowd---especially to Hosh---Please direct me to a link showing your backpacking trip reports---so we can judge if you're a genuine backpacker or just a cyber hiker. And please post your vital daily mileage numbers. If the numbers are too low we may have to describe your trips as "Inauthentic".
I'll bite!
Since 2007, I've hiked about 740 miles (Amicalola to roughly Daleville) in 5-7 day increments -- one trip in the spring, one in the fall -- but I had to take a 5-year hiatus when my mom had a stroke and I had to be around to take care of her. So I guess that I'm mostly an inauthentic cyber hiker.
I don't have a lot of "bag nights" because I have a lot of "job days" -- my employer would not take kindly to me taking off multiple weeks a year.
I asked about miles because while I think that I could probably hump a 95 lbs pack for 5 miles a day, I don't know if I could for a 15-20 mile day (although once I had to carry my 85 lbs retriever about 4 miles when he cut his foot and couldn't get back to the car, and trust me on this, carrying a squirming Lab that far was no picnic).
I like to hike more than camp, which means that I prefer to mostly walk from dawn to mid-afternoon, probably because I don't get to hike much and I like the activity part more than the sitting part. But if someone prefers the opposite, that's totally cool with me, too.
Pic of Chance, my 85 lbs rescue dog that I rescued when he couldn't (or wouldn't) walk.
20180810_195848_resized.jpg
Job days are my main barrier to hiking as well.Originally Posted by John B
I know I'm an outlier on this but think it's worth mentioning that you can still get a fair amount of bag nights while working full time in the right situation. I work full time but average about 1000 miles per year and between 50 to 70 nights out. I go out almost every weekend, holiday, and spend the balance of my vacation doing this. My wife works most weekends, we have no children and no debt. It's a busy way to live as I have to cram all the stuff most working folks get done on weekends into week nights after work. Consequently, I am terrible at keeping up with materiel things (as can be attested by the state of disrepair of our modest home); I usually only make time to keep up with vital relationships and put "things" lower on the list . These are my choices (and I am glad to have them. )
Timeframes---I think we all concern ourselves with timeframes---our point of departure into the woods at a trailhead and evac day when we come out. Of course, there may be backpackers out there who never come in . . . from the cold.@ TW Actually, it's not only fringe hikers or WBers that concern themselves with timeframes, including avg MPD. Some are trying to hike sections or from TH to TH. That requires knowing and planning for daily mileage. Many need to know their miles even if they aren't maxing out their daily miles or total trip miles! For example, if one is hiking the AT through GSMNP they are required to stay at shelters. Some are trying to 'complete' something. Totally respect if you define completing differently, accomplishing a different goal, but we should respect those that have different definitions and goals. For some it's not only about number of bag nights. HYOH
And I think most backpackers here on WB are "trying to complete something". I know when I set up a trip schedule I set up numerous goals or "quests". Quest for Wildcat Creek, Quest for the 7 Kingdoms, Quest for Brush Mt, Quest for Scorch Mt etc etc.
Many people on backpacker forums fixate on Thruhiking and are convinced that thruhiking is or could be the only authentic form of backpacking---and yet these forums and Whiteblaze in particular have big Sub Forums on non-AT trails and even a forum on "Other Trails". And of course a forum on section hikers who are in fact just regular backpackers using the AT for their backpacking trips.
We don't all have to be thruhikers to still be backpackers and to post our trip reports. And we don't have to pull 30 mile days or 20 mile days or even 10 mile days to still be backpackers.
Cool post. Back in 2007 I had to move my Mom from Greensboro into our home due to dementia concerns---and she lived with us for 18 months until her passing. Not a lot of long backpacking trips were done during that time.
And your dog story is also relevant to me as my mighty dog Shunka had a stroke in May 2010 when I was out for a 9 day backpacking trip and we had to spend 4 days camping at one spot so he could recover enough to be carried out on a 9 mile trek back to the car. 50 lb dog combined with my usual big pack was tough so I can relate. (He lived to backpack again and passed away 7 months later).
Yes but you are one in a million---in regards to getting out as much as possible and still holding down a job. Most folks have home life responsibilities beyond their jobs which keeps them indoors. You've just honed down your priorities to Work and Backpacking---as in: Must Work. Must Backpack too.
Last edited by Tipi Walter; 02-07-2019 at 16:29.
Good stuff Tipi. All of it. You got me with the Shunka story.
Many people on backpacker forums fixate on Thruhiking and are convinced that thru hiking is or could be the only authentic form of backpacking"
So what. You don't have to let that bother you? It's only a perception, one perception of some folks. Don't become a myopic naysayer in kind with pushing your ways as "the ways." Let it go amigo. There will always be someone with a different perspective. Don't get caught up in thru hike hoopla. Don't waste your time or loose focus of maintaining your state.
"We don't all have to be thruhikers to still be backpackers and to post our trip reports. And we don't have to pull 30 mile days or 20 mile days or even 10 mile days to still be backpackers."
Absolutely! No one is debating that. And, if someone is perhaps we should recognize it as a thought of the prejudicial feeble minded...and let it go. Remember you initially stirred the pot when your first phrase opened the door with the comments, "yes I'm now a thru hiker because I thru hiked these trails-", "I'm a Quadruple Crowner!!" Succinctly, you bring some of this crap on yourself kimosabe. You stir the pot by being sarcastically vocal and hostile toward thru hiking and judgmental about other things! You did it here in this thread and you've done it many times previously. You're not alone. I can do it too! You're going to receive push back when you go against the tide. Maybe, you actually gravitate toward such situations? Have you considered that? You shouldn't so forcefully push your ways while with sarcasm or perhaps veiled hostility put others below you. It comes off as having contempt for others, devaluing others when you do. Again, expect pushback if you continue. Maybe, we don't always even know when we're doing it?Were you born in NJ, NY, or Boston?
It's obvious some, including myself, enjoy your reports especially when shared at a time when most aren't getting in backpacking trips. Dude go to a comedy club or watch a Netflix stand up or just laugh at yourself and all the damn arse ridiculous shart people make seem so important, including the shart you and I make personally significant that we assume others should recognize as equally significant. And, while you're doing it reflect on being more forbearing and open minded. C'mon you slept in a TeePee for 8 yrs and have that ultra hauler, a nice custom McHale mega hauler. Comparatively, those are a walk in the park.
We need to make concerted efforts to move beyond constantly stewing in our own thoughts.
I chuckle overtime I see Patman and you with your faces in a watermelon, landscape tools cleaning trails, accounts of Little Mitten picking you up at a TH(I guess your wife?), that Hilly set up in a nice CS with snow or ice on it, those deep fords, and your use of language. I've learned new phrases in your threads i.e.; rat trap shelters, rolling couch potatoes, UL - ultra hauler. I can't keep myself from opening up your threads to see what you've done even though you do many things differently than I generally do.
Seriously, you have a wit and willingness to contribute to others. I appreciate that. Perhaps, consider toning down the defensive rhetoric?
Life and Mrs Nature are awaiting.
Peace be with you.
Admirable.
I too work full time
But average about 1 month per year living in the mountains on trails
Usually a short trip, and a longer 3-4 week one
Keeps me sane
Always have something to plan and look forward too...best part .
Makes working ....tolerable.
Thars people that love working for living....i aint never been one of them.
Any bag nights are good nights, imo.
Last edited by MuddyWaters; 02-08-2019 at 07:18.
Hey Pat, I'm pretty much in the same boat, life wise. I do the house stuff after work so I can get out on weekends. Hoping one day to be able to get out on Walter-like trips but just being able to get out and enjoy the wilderness and its peace makes it all worthwhile.
I often have to remind myself when posting here that this forum is, technically and originally, a forum for AT trail enthusiasts. As such, I notice that posts and comments are pretty heavily weighted toward both thru-hiking and Eastern U.S. conditions -- neither of which is my particular wheelhouse since I live out west, and don't concern myself with counting miles.
Honestly, I often feel like Walter does, but try to breathe it away in order to converse about backpacking and the wilderness more generally. I think there is a pretty strong disconnect -- even conflict -- between the motivations for thru-hikers and those backpackers like me. The notion of having walking goals in terms of miles traveled is not only different from what I do, it runs directly counter to my own practice, which frequently and intentionally eschews distances, destinations, plans, and often even maps. So I get Walter's frustration.
To me, thru-hiking is a sport -- really just long-distance trail-running. Sports in the wilderness can be great fun, but not my bag (as it were). Still, it seems we find plenty to talk about with each other. And I'm glad that a forum theoretically devoted to AT enthusiasts is open to threads about other places, ways, and means.
You make some interesting points. Your bold highlighted statement pretty much reflects my attitude---Frustration. I think my over-reacting defensiveness comes from getting pounced on every time I mention pulling long backpacking trips with a heavy pack and one food load with no resupply---which elicits criticism from the Thruhiking-centric and Miles per Day centric backpackers and of course the Ultralighters here.
But as Zalman's says, this forum is ALSO open to threads about other places, other trails, other approaches---like pulling regular backpacking trips not part of any Thruhike. As mentioned, not all backpacking is done as a Thruhike or done in the Fast & Light style or with high Miles per day. Like Zalman, I also generally don't cencern myself with counting miles etc. When this is expressed a good percentage of people will say, "But you'll never reach Maine that way!"---as if Maine has anything to do with Other Trails or The Benton MacKaye trail or the Colorado trail or the Florida trail or the JMT or the MTS trail or the Pinhoti or the White Mountain trail system---all listed forum trails here on Whiteblaze.net. And of course I posted this in the Other Trails forum.
Some of us here are backpackers but not thruhikers---and so we discuss backpacking in general---and yes there's a General Sub-Fourm in the Appalachian Trail Forums---which is open to all types of backpackers, especially Southeast backpackers---with no regard or qualification to whether you're posting as a "mere" backpacker or as a potential Thruhiker.
The "Thru-Hiker Specific Topics" forum I pretty much stay out of.
I think the number of "hecklers" is tiny.
Many hikers cover ground, to see new things.
If you want to see an area 100 mi between resupply options, you have to know how far you want to hike per day, to know how much food you need to bring. Making up plans as go, isnt always an option. Neither is carrying 40 lb food just in case. Or taking a month off work to cover it.
Are there people hiking for a certificate? Sure.
Dont be frustrated by them, pity them.
Last edited by MuddyWaters; 02-08-2019 at 14:26.
I think that's the point. Goals like this one just aren't in my vocabulary, because I don't plan -- or think about -- trips based on the size of the area I want to cover.
(I also feel like any "resupply" point is essentially the start of a new and separate trip, a semantic difference that might provide more context to the variance in outlooks here.)
Last edited by Zalman; 02-08-2019 at 14:31.
Substitute civilization for resupply so you comprehend.
If its 40 mi from closest trailhead to lake x in sierra, and you dont intend to die there, you will plan your mileage and food . Or your full of it. Some people play in a small area never more than 5 miles from a road, others dont have luxury of leaving anytime they desire. Planning is required.
MPD is simply a possibly useful statistic that can increase efficiency and safety in exploration and adventure. I 100% agree TW too much focus can be allotted that stat though. But for everyone to always completely ignore it like on remote undocumented routes it would be reckless. Reckless not only to oneself but to our families, friends, and S&R. Don't ignore people do different trips and can have different LD backpacking agendas then common. Not everyone is largely going out to highly familiar and front woods areas. TW I find a lot of your picking fun at things to be witty. It's enjoyed even when you make me laugh at some of the pts that apply to some of my hiking agendas. Then again I don't easily get offended.
MW free up some inbox space.
I don't know how you did it but you expressed how I feel and what I've been trying to say in my trail journals and trip reports for the last 20 years. I view "resupply" as the end of my unbroken time in the woods and in our so-called wilderness areas, what Dogwood calls "front woods areas"?? Whatever this means. Cohutta and Citico ain't the Wrangell-St Elias but it's wild enough for me---and we have tough enough storms here too which can on occasion give me ample opportunity to suffer.
As I become an older backpacker I highly value my unbroken stretches in the woods---ergo the heavy food loads---because I don't want to see or hear traffic and towns and restaurants and folding money and smartphones and human noise . . . and computers. And so we have our variance of outlooks here. Ergo---I want to stay out as long as possible---others do not.
For LD thruhikers I agree that the MPD number is of utmost importance. It's just not as relevant to this Other Trails trip report. And whether on remote undocumented routes or not, I don't know of a single backpacker who completely ignores mileages or how many mile he/she walks per day.MPD is simply a possibly useful statistic that can increase efficiency and safety in exploration and adventure. I 100% agree TW too much focus can be allotted that stat though. But for everyone to always completely ignore it like on remote undocumented routes it would be reckless. Reckless not only to oneself but to our families, friends, and S&R.
On this trip I set up my Entrance Point on Day 1 and my Evac Point on Day 17---both miles apart. And I set up a route/trail schedule from Day 1 to reach my evac point on Day 17. This required of course hiking whatever miles needed to follow my schedule and to reach my end point.
Personally, I think it all comes down to a lack of respect. People get too defensive about the "style" they enjoy and for whatever reason feel like if someone doesn't do "X" the same way they do it lessens their perception, worth, what have you. I enjoy fast and light and max miles per day but I also appreciate Walter's style of backpacking. He gets out there and hauls loads that I don't care to but it allows him to accomplish what he sets out to do.
It also comes to play for people that post videos of hikes/trips, people take a persona's style as gospel truth and anytime someone opposes that, all Hell breaks loose. Sometimes people lose their mind even when the persona they subscribe to decides to change a piece of gear or the focus of a video. I don't know how to fix it, just something I have observed.
AT: 695.7 mi
Benton MacKaye Trail '20
Pinhoti Trail '18-19'
@leonidasonthetrail https://www.youtube.com/c/LeonidasontheTrail
Again, that's the point. For me, supplies dictate the length of the trip more than the other way around. I don't plan trips "to lake x". I start at a trailhead, with a certain amount of food and foraging skills, and walk around until it's getting low enough that I have to leave. Usually, I wind up at "lake x" anyway somewhere along the way.
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