Vermont trip Feb. Hike, ski

[JNI64]

Hi y'all long time lurker first time post. I've retrieved a lot of good info from you fine folks, but now I could really use some advice on a couple things. Leave Feb. 15 drive to killington Vermont leave my car at the inn get shuttled up to 103? I think 20 miles then I'll have sat, sun,mon to hike back to the inn for 2 days Tues my birthday will be skiing killington woohoo. So what is that part of trail like? I have AWOL map cell service? Another concern is a lot of blowing snow and loosing the trail. Just a little nervous yes I'll be solo

[Deadeye]

That's an easy overnight in the summer. Winter will depend entirely on conditions. You may have a few feet of consolidated snow, with a well-trodden trail to follow, or you may have 6 feet of untracked snow and a trail that is impossible to follow, or anything in between all at the same time within a mile. The AT/LT is not maintained for winter travel. You will often find the peaks have a packed trail from road to summit, but following the trail between those travelled areas is an entirely different story.

[soilman]

I went up to the Killington area years ago on President's day weekend to go xcross skiing. It rained on the drive up to VT and by the time we got there there was no snow at all. Spent the weekend eating and hiking.

[Slo-go'en]

Without getting into the gory details, that will be a difficult hike. The section north of Sherburne pass is easier. Even so, your looking at 30-40 hours of hiking to do those 20 miles. When your breaking trail and trying to figure out exactly where the trail is and getting lost half the time, progress is very slow. Some of the coldest air all winter often arrives mid February, you need to be ready for temps as low as -20.

Winter hiking in Vermont tends to be up a side trail to a shelter for the night or up to a summit and back. There is a cross country ski trail called the Catamount trial, which parallels the Long trail but lower down and that is the trial people used for long distance travel in the winter.

[JNI64]

Thank you'll, holy chap that sounds scary I'm ready ! But seriously what about guthooks, never had to use would that keep me on track? As far as gear and cold I think I'm prepared I went last weekend to do a shakedown hike with new winter gear. Hiked from bears den hostel up to ravens rock micro spikes worked awesome never slipped sluggish up solid ice back had 18 hrs. Of cold rain the sun. 20-30 mph. Winds mon. Morning 7 degrees-15 wind chill yeah cold pooping that morning. So best advice watch weather go from there?

[tdoczi]

Thank you'll, holy chap that sounds scary I'm ready ! But seriously what about guthooks, never had to use would that keep me on track? As far as gear and cold I think I'm prepared I went last weekend to do a shakedown hike with new winter gear. Hiked from bears den hostel up to ravens rock micro spikes worked awesome never slipped sluggish up solid ice back had 18 hrs. Of cold rain the sun. 20-30 mph. Winds mon. Morning 7 degrees-15 wind chill yeah cold pooping that morning. So best advice watch weather go from there?

that hike you just did and the hike you're planning have a high percentage of being absolutely nothing alike.

[JNI64]

Was also hoping this would go to general for more response thanks

[JNI64]

Yes that was just to get out and try my new kathoola, spikes,snow shoes,down booties,down hood, which all performed great 😁. My jetboil barely performed but managed and water freezing so I ordered a emberlit I'll also have esbit and ordered a winter nalgene and cozy from 40 below. So if given a weather opportunity . Don't have my map I'm at work but was thinking Saturday get dropped off do 7 miles, sun.up and over 3,oooo ft. 10miles then Monday 3 miles to the inn

[4eyedbuzzard]

Yes that was just to get out and try my new kathoola, spikes,snow shoes,down booties,down hood, which all performed great . My jetboil barely performed but managed and water freezing so I ordered a emberlit I'll also have esbit and ordered a winter nalgene and cozy from 40 below. So if given a weather opportunity . Don't have my map I'm at work but was thinking Saturday get dropped off do 7 miles, sun.up and over 3,oooo ft. 10miles then Monday 3 miles to the inn

Esbit is really inefficient in winter. It takes a long time to boil under normal conditions. In cold weather the heat output has a hard time keeping up with the heat loss. Try keeping your stove canister warm - against your body and under an insulating layer right up until you use it. Sleep with your canister at night. You can also use a water bath (small aluminum foil pie plate or shallow plastic bowl or similar with a little water in it) to counteract the rapid fuel cooling when the stove is running. It will keep the gas mix above 32° which is important to keep the fuel in the canister vaporizing properly, especially if the fuel you are using has any n-butane in it. Otherwise the propane and then isobutane portion vaporizes off faster and you are left with mostly n-butane which doesn't vaporize well below 40°F. For that reason (n-butane) it's best to stick with canisters that don't use any n-butane in them - Jetboil, Olicamp, Snow Peak, or MSR canisters come to mind (and perhaps some others) They are iso-butane/propane mixes in around the 20 - 25% propane range. Read the labels. All fuels aren't created equally.

[Deadeye]

It all depends on the weather and snow conditions. As long as you're smart enough to know when turning around is the right choice, you can have a blast fun. I don't think you'll have a "no snow" year like soilman did.

[JNI64]

And I suppose that is what I would have to do cause there is no road crossing or bail out points correct?

[Deadeye]

And I suppose that is what I would have to do cause there is no road crossing or bail out points correct?

There are actually plenty of bailouts between Rte. 103 and Gov. Clement shelter. I think the touchiest part will be from there to Killington - after that, there's a real good chance that the trail will be packed to Rte. 4

Who knows? Try it. Not trying to be discouraging, just realistic about winter in Northern New England.

[JNI64]

I would also welcome anybody wanting to join me .

[JNI64]

Four eyed, thank you for that info about canisters I was aware of keeping them warm and why wasn't aware of the keeping them in water while in use uh makes since. Dead eye thank you very much for your responses yeah a closer examination of my map shows several gravel roads and possible bailouts. And your answers are why I'm here asking I'm a lil nervous about this trip so I need to know realistically what i'm getting my self into.

[Slo-go'en]

Those gravel roads aren't maintained for winter travel, so you'd still have a long walk out. There might be snowmobile traffic on them, so maybe you could hitch a ride.

That area was hit hard by Hurricane Irene. It's been a while, but the trail has not fully recovered. The trail along Killington is in really bad shape and will be hard to follow in winter conditions. The climb out of Clarendon is steeply up a boulder filled ravine. It will be full up with snow, making it a challenging climb. There are also several brook crossings which can be difficult in deep snow. Then with that big rain we just got, there is probably wash outs. To say nothing of the down trees. Several big, windy, wet snow slush storms have hit Vermont and NH this winter. Bring a chainsaw.

Yes, Guthook can help you stay on the trail - or find it again, but you can't use it constantly and cell phone batteries run down quick in the cold.

For you first hike in the winter in Vermont, just do a couple of day hikes. That will give you an idea of what your getting into.

[JNI64]

Damn slo-go'en,, that sounds like a bit more then I bargain for. Perhaps I'll rethink this adventure. So far I've hiked middle of pa. Down to Tennessee, Damascus aprox 800 miles section hiking. So not a total novice but that sounds not good at all . What do think about parking at 103 and traversing up to Clarendon shelter 1mile for Saturday night then drive to rutland sun. And park then traverse up to tucker Johnson shelter also 1 mile . Or I'm open for suggestions . 1 where a chainsaws not needed .

[tdoczi]

Damn slo-go'en,, that sounds like a bit more then I bargain for. Perhaps I'll rethink this adventure. So far I've hiked middle of pa. Down to Tennessee, Damascus aprox 800 miles section hiking. So not a total novice but that sounds not good at all . What do think about parking at 103 and traversing up to Clarendon shelter 1mile for Saturday night then drive to rutland sun. And park then traverse up to tucker Johnson shelter also 1 mile . Or I'm open for suggestions . 1 where a chainsaws not needed .

Slo' is the person i often refer to as our resident doomsayer. seems like no matter what someone proposes doing hes here to point out all the potential pitfalls. they are generally accurate if perhaps overstated.

i think that may be the case here again. the truth is probably somewhere between your idea of what you're planning to do and Slo's worst case scenario description.

or we could have a freakishly warm winter from now until your trip and there will barely be any snow. who knows.

but like i said earlier "i went hiking in northern VA and tested out my microspikes" really has no real relevance to what you're now planning. do you have snow shoes?

[tdoczi]

Slo' is the person i often refer to as our resident doomsayer. seems like no matter what someone proposes doing hes here to point out all the potential pitfalls. they are generally accurate if perhaps overstated.

i think that may be the case here again. the truth is probably somewhere between your idea of what you're planning to do and Slo's worst case scenario description.

or we could have a freakishly warm winter from now until your trip and there will barely be any snow. who knows.

but like i said earlier "i went hiking in northern VA and tested out my microspikes" really has no real relevance to what you're now planning. do you have snow shoes?

re-read your earlier post and see that you do.... but was there any deep snow on your test hike?

[Slo-go'en]

i think that may be the case here again. the truth is probably somewhere between your idea of what you're planning to do and Slo's worst case scenario description.

Maybe but it's been a harsh winter so far and doesn't look like it will get much better in the next few weeks. If two days above freezing with 2" of rain was our January thaw, we're in trouble. Trails in Vermont don't get nearly the traffic the Whites do in the winter. Vermont's all about skiing. I'd do a cross country ski trip.

[Slo-go'en]

Like I said, getting to Clarendon would be real struggle getting up that ravine. It's good climb in the summer, could actually be an ice climb right now.

Tucker Johnson no longer exists. It burnt down years ago, but there is tenting there. The Long Trail is noted for it's very steep and rocky climbs at paved road crossings, carved out by the glaciers. The north side is usually the steepest. Just can't get away from them. Most shelters are located where they are hard to get to to keep the riff raft out. Access roads which are not state highways are closed for the winter. It's a tough place to do any winter hiking/camping. They rather you go skiing.

Don't know what to suggest, can't think of any place I'd try to get to in the middle of February. Getting to the Bromley shelter north of RT11 might be the best bet. That's one of the few places where there isn't a big climb from the road to get to. Since that's at a ski area, backcountry snowboarders might make tracks to there.