Federal shutdown also hits Appalachian Trail - WHSV

[TNhiker]

Its no different than manufacturing. Our plant, and most shut down for inventory and cleaning annually and without pay.

does your plant shut down for 30 days at a time?

and while you might be prepared for a shutdown, how do you think a 30 day shutdown would affect coworkers of yours?

especially ones that have kids........

[Gambit McCrae]

If they don't like it right now would be a great time to find another job.

[Feral Bill]

Not sure those in the Coast Guard, TSA, Border Patrol etc. who are still working and not getting paid would view it as a vacation.

Border Patrol can at least quit. Coast Guard can't, unless they dream of life in the Marine brig.

[Feral Bill]

Its no different than manufacturing. Our plant, and most shut down for inventory and cleaning annually and without pay. No one is crying a river due to the shutdown. They know it can or will happen and they prepare for it. Its not ridiculous, that is just your opinion. If people want to cry about the shutdown, get another job.


We have had many shutdowns in previous years, I don't remember anyone boohooing then...

There is a big difference between being laid off, with unemployment insurance and the ability to find other work, and being expected to work without pay indefinitely in the hope you'll get paid eventually.

[soilman]

Believe it or not some federal workers like their jobs. Many even go into civil service for reasons other than a paycheck. If people keep disrespecting, disregarding, and discounting federal employees the best and brightest will eventually indeed go and look for other employment. How is this good for the country? I have a nephew with a BS degree who decided he wanted to be a Border Patrol agent. He spent 2-3 months training at the academy, then spent another month becoming proficient in Spanish before he was hired. He now has two young children, one 2 years and one 4 months. He has been working for almost a month without a paycheck coming in. So is he a cry baby? Should he choose to look for another job, look at the investment the federal government has lost.

[TexasBob]

If they don't like it right now would be a great time to find another job.

Do you have any idea what it costs to hire and train an employee to replace the ones who decide its a "great right time to find another job" ? I have learned over the years that every situation has an easy answer when you don't know much about the problem.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Its no different than manufacturing. Our plant, and most shut down for inventory and cleaning annually and without pay. No one is crying a river due to the shutdown. They know it can or will happen and they prepare for it. Its not ridiculous, that is just your opinion. If people want to cry about the shutdown, get another job.


We have had many shutdowns in previous years, I don't remember anyone boohooing then...

Federal employment is A LOT different than manufacturing or private employment. I've worked in both.

*Private employees don't take an oath of office. And yes, federal employees take that oath seriously. We can not only be fired, but jailed for violating it.

*Federal employees can't take other jobs to make ends meet without prior approval - while working, furloughed, or whenever. With agencies' ethics offices closed, approval can't even be sought. And for many, such a request would be routinely denied for public trust or national security reasons anyway.

*Most government entities don't have yearly shutdowns either, those that do often require employees to use some of their annual leave (vacation) on days they are closed.

*Federal employees can wind up losing their security clearance or public trust suitability (and thus lose their jobs) over delinquent debts, and bad credit histories can be reason for clearances not being renewed at a scheduled reevaluation. I doubt your private sector employer goes over your tax returns and credit report with a fine tooth comb, or interviews your neighbors looking for reasons you might be compromised either from a public trust or national security concern.

*Many Federal jobs tend to require unique skill sets with few parallel or transferable skills in the private sector. Government does things that the private sector doesn't. Like screening airline passengers. Or, directly applicable to most hikers, managing National Parks, Forests, and Trails. There's not a lot, if any, calls for many of these skills in the private sector. I would add that it is important for government not to lose their experienced employees, as just as in the private sector, it takes a lot of both time and money to replace dedicated experienced employees.

[MuddyWaters]

This is ridiculous. Government employees should not have to prepare for a government shutdown. A TSA agent starting salary is between $30 and $44K, not much more than someone working at McDonalds. How much money should they set aside in their "government shutdown fund"? Expenses for one month, three months, a year? This shutdown is unprecedented. Nearly 80% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck.
https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/...ck-to-paycheck

and yet common knowledge is that you should have six months ability saved up to exist between paychecks.... Normally in case you need to look for a new job.

Yes I know most do not do this. a good part of that is because most people live well beyond their means. The same reason they have no retirement savings.

I'll simply put it this way. My wife and I together do what most would call very well. I live in a small house. My newest car is 2005, the last new car I bought was in 1995. I have ni debt, not on a car not on a house not on anything. ive nevern had to worry about money. Yet people I know that have a half of our income have two nice cars , and much bigger nicer houses. I know this and I have always wondered how they could sleep at night.

not to mention their kids will get financial aid for college where ours got zero. and much more of my money goes to pay taxes then theirs.

so no I really don't feel sorry for anyone who hasn't provided to be without a paycheck for a few weeks or even a couple of months. Not one bit. And to be clear we're talkin about people that will largely receive back pay.

[TexasBob]

and yet common knowledge is that you should have six months ability saved up to exist between paychecks.... Normally in case you need to look for a new job.

Yes I know most do not do this. a good part of that is because most people live well beyond their means. The same reason they have no retirement savings...................

Or maybe they don't make much to start with and haven't had years to save much. Times were lean when I was young and I never lived beyond my means. At 64 I have had plenty of time and no financial catastrophes to overcome and I can weather a financial storm now but 40 years ago not so much.
https://money.cnn.com/2017/01/12/pf/...ngs/index.html

[rickb]

Trail volunteers are covered by government insurance when they do trail maintenance. They lose this coverage during a shutdown. I think the article clearly states this.

So if a trail volunteer breaks his leg the government picks up the tab?

[rmitchell]

So if a trail volunteer breaks his leg the government picks up the tab?

That's what I've been told.

Never had to test it, fortunately .

[soilman]

So if a trail volunteer breaks his leg the government picks up the tab?

Yes. Several years ago while working on the volunteer Konarock trail crew my wife was injured and required stitches. She was covered by USFS if she would have elected to use this. She had her own medical insurance and it was simpler for her to go that route than through the USFS.

[Alligator]

I was wondering when this would boil over. Keep it trail related folks.

[FreeGoldRush]

I was wondering when this would boil over. Keep it trail related folks.

Ok. A government that is shutdown should not be stopping people from volunteering to maintain the trail. Have we come to the point that we need the government to be open to pick up and move tree limbs??

[Traveler]

So if a trail volunteer breaks his leg the government picks up the tab?

No, the insurer does after they confirm the volunteer was working within the prescribed rules and regulations of the maintenance organization.

[Seatbelt]

I have a customer who is furloughed from the Fed right now but he is staying home, not working. So not everyone is forced to work without out pay.

[Traveler]

I have a customer who is furloughed from the Fed right now but he is staying home, not working. So not everyone is forced to work without out pay.

No, not everyone is required to work unless they have a job related to public safety. IRS employees for example are not considered essential to public safety as TSA, FBI, or ATC personnel are. The shutdown impacts some 800,000 federal employees, with probably another 150,000 to 200,000 employees of contractors who clean buildings, prepare food, etc.

[Alligator]

I have a customer who is furloughed from the Fed right now but he is staying home, not working. So not everyone is forced to work without out pay.

No, not everyone is required to work unless they have a job related to public safety. IRS employees for example are not considered essential to public safety as TSA, FBI, or ATC personnel are. The shutdown impacts some 800,000 federal employees, with probably another 150,000 to 200,000 employees of contractors who clean buildings, prepare food, etc.

Essential vs. non-essential is more complicated than just public safety as far as who is working in the unfunded departments (it's a partial shutdown). Plus some agencies have been able to exercise loopholes or be creative in working with existing laws. People don't get to choose to stay home. If declared essential, people must report to work.

Now, we are going to keep this in the context of trail related. For instance, both the Departments of Interior (NPS, BLM) and Agriculture (USFS) are shutdown. Those two departments cover most of the federal land that contain trails, but if I am missing an agency somewhere chime in. So in reference to being "creative" the NPS is dipping into entrance fees to cover costs in some parks.

[soilman]

Not all of USDA is shutdown. I received an email yesterday from the Farm Services Agency (USDA). All offices are to open today. They had opened selected offices for 3 days to process farm loans late last week. This is just an example of how arbitrary this shutdown is. I guess it is essential that farmers have access to government loans and assistance but not so much for the Forest Service to maintain trails.

[Alligator]

Ok. A government that is shutdown should not be stopping people from volunteering to maintain the trail. Have we come to the point that we need the government to be open to pick up and move tree limbs??

It's not that simple. There are agreements in place from the simple to the complex. In a nutshell, the crux of a government shutdown is that the government cannot order work for which there are no appropriated funds. So the government cannot uphold its agreement to provide insurance for trail volunteers that is provided for in some of those agreements. The government has to say "Don't work on the trails, you might get hurt, we're not funded right now", so they don't get sued.

In other situations, there are no federal personnel working in whatever capacity called for in those trail agreements. Nobody to conduct chainsaw certifications for instance. Logging is one of the deadliest occupations, cited sometimes as #1.